BoxRec

Expug wrote:

Randyman wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

I have fond memories of Gil Cadilli from the Main Street Gym. He could be pretty blunt about things though. One day when I first started sparring, I can't remember with who, I was catching too many right hands. It was enough to get Cadilli's attention and when I was climbing out of the ring, Cadilli lit into Mel. He said to Mel "What's wrong with you? Why don't you teach him some defense?" I'm going by memory but it was pretty close to that..

As Rick can tell you, Mel would take it as a personal affront if another trainer even spoke to one of his fighters, much less interfere with his methods. Mel fired back with "Mind your own f**king business I know what I'm doing". They went back and forth for a few minutes until Gil just walked away. Mel was talking to himself for days.

Randy

Great suff Randy.
There was a time when a trainer would get real salty if another trainer started sticking his nose in to a fighters buisness. I wonder if trainers are still protective of their fighters like that.Or have things changed in that way too.

Dongee wrote:Randy and Dagosd:
I honestly think boxing lore means nothing unless it is shared

Thanks for the kind words, Randy, and only once did I have a fighter box for Mel Epstein. I had been sent five young boxers from the Texas border area by a good friend. I was a llicensed matchmaker at the time and could not handle them myself so I turned them over to a respected manager/traner I trusted.

One of the kids was Ramon Tiscareno, who was signed by Mel for a 1952 bout against Sid Flaherty's Eddie Chavez at Butte, Montana. When the fighter and his new manager returned to L.A. they regaled me with stories about the most unruly fight mob they had ever seen in the mining town where boxing was ruled over by Mel Epstein. They had no complaints about Mel himself, but they said the men in the audience were rowdy as hell,

Aside to Dagosd2000:

I lived in San Diego for more than 30 years and on trips to Tijuana we always ate at one of two places; the La Mesa, for seafood, and a little dive downstairs on Revolucion called La Especial. That place had a huge platter with carne asada, beans, rice, guacamole plus fresh tortillasat the fanastic price of a buck (oro). We found the prices had changed the last time we ate there.

hap navarro

Expug wrote:Great story Rick.
I heard a great one about Beau Jack once.
It reminds me of the Speedy Dado story.
Beau Jack started out life as a bootblack. He shined shoes.
Eventually, he became a fighter and made and lost over a million dollars.
He wound up back shining shoes at the Fountainbleu Hotel.
Somebody once asked him,"Beau, you made over a million dollars in the ring, but now your back shining shoes. How does that make you feel?"
Beau looked at the guy and said , "hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

The more I think about it, the more I realize that boxing aint the sport to get into to get rich.
Boxing is the sport to get into to make friends, tell stories and have a few laughs.
And of course, thats the problem nowadays. Nobody is laughing anymore.

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Gus Dorazio vs Joe Louis
February 17, 1941, Convention Hall
Philadelphia

Gus Dorazio,he was quite the hellion outside the ring.
It didnt take much for him to bounce a hook off the skull of some unfortunate.

kikibalt wrote:Tony Baltazar vs Robin Blake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLcuE-kQ6Cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh2z-n4f1g0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hhHjZkndHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngempDdNDXA

raylawpc wrote:

Dongee wrote:Tom:

That little maneuver of Manuel's was a part of his feinting technique, which I have always considered among the best displayed by a western fighter in the past 70 years. Manuel used his head to feint successfully, causing his opponent to commit himself and counterpunching him sillly. He was an expert at the ploy; maybe the best in my time.
His hands down technique was also meant to lure an opponent into a solid exchange he felt he could easily win.

hap navarro

Yes, I agree with your statement about that "little maneuver." ("I have always considered among the best displayed by a western fighter in the past 70 years.") It would take incredible timing to pull that off - especially a bantamweight like Ortiz, given the hand speed possessed by fellows in the lower weight classes. I was really pretty amazed when I saw Ortiz do it on the dvd, and more amazed when he did it again and again, lulling the opponent in and then throwing those beautiful counterpunches.

Expug wrote:Great story Rick.
I heard a great one about Beau Jack once.
It reminds me of the Speedy Dado story.
Beau Jack started out life as a bootblack. He shined shoes.
Eventually, he became a fighter and made and lost over a million dollars.
He wound up back shining shoes at the Fountainbleu Hotel.
Somebody once asked him,"Beau, you made over a million dollars in the ring, but now your back shining shoes. How does that make you feel?"
Beau looked at the guy and said , "hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

The more I think about it, the more I realize that boxing aint the sport to get into to get rich.
Boxing is the sport to get into to make friends, tell stories and have a few laughs.
And of course, thats the problem nowadays. Nobody is laughing anymore.

bennie wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Tony Baltazar vs Robin Blake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLcuE-kQ6Cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh2z-n4f1g0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hhHjZkndHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngempDdNDXA

What a fight! Blake never looked so good again, which tells you what Tony took out of him.

dagosd2000 wrote:AFTER THE FIGHTS


Across the boulevard from the Bull ring is the long row of taco stands that is a popular spot for people to stop and eat. Tijuana is known for tacos. When it's the Day Of The Taco in Mexico there are so many people crowding around those stands it's almost impossible to see them. The aroma of the manteca and the crackling of meat frying on the grills is something the memory never forgets. The bright bulbs strung across the front of the stands. Radishes,chiles,cilantro,and salsas of red and green in bowls adorn the stands. After the fights at the bull ring ,we always went to eat at the stands . Tacos Al Pastor with the meat on the spit shaved off into the small hot corn tortillas dipped in the hot manteca tasted wonderfull.
"Si amigo. Con todo."

Me and Pat were hungry after the card at the Bull Ring. We got lucky .We found a stand with two empty stools on the end. We piled the tacos on the white cardboard plates. The grease soaked through the wax paper onto the cardboard.The night air got cold and I was looking at the steam coming off from all the grills.
"Olivares had an easy time with that Jap," I remarked as my plate was being filled with tacos.
"They're not going to risk anything with him down here,"said Pat.
"They'll have a big fight with him later in the year in Los Angeles."
It seemed that everyone at the Bull Ring crossed the boulevard to eat tacos at the stands. As fast as the tacos were filled on the plates, they were emptied by the happy aficianados.

I was starting to fill my stomach. The cold beer in the brown bottles helped wash it down.
"Someone told me there are 7000 registered fighters in Mexico,"I said.
"How many in the U.S.?"
"Not even half that number."
Pat was starting to slow down too. We just drank beer.
"I don't think Mexico would have near that number of fighters if they didn't border the U.S.,"I said.
"Yeh,it would probably have as many fighters as Panama."
"The fighters know in Mexico if they do well,it's the big money in the U.S."
"Yeh,the Forum or maybe New York."
The beer was beginning to warm me up . I didn't feel the cold anymore.
"You're right. They didn't want to risk anything with Olivares tonight."
"Picking the Japanese guy was a coup. The crowd liked to see him get his ass kicked."
"Especially what Shibata did to Saldivar."
The crowd dwindled down. Some of the stands had no one in front of them. Me and Pat sat at the end of the stand. There were a lot of the empty brown bottles in front of us.
"Another way the U.S. impacts Mexico,"I said. My mind became very clear. I was sure of my statements.
"I don't follow."
"They fight well here,and then make the big money on the U.S. side."
"Yeh."
I looked along the long row of stands. Just me and Pat were left. The man making the tacos came over.
"Se cabo. We close."

I paid the man for the tacos and beer. I put my arm on Pat's shoulder. He looked up..
"Of those 7000,how many make the big money?"asked Pat.
"Hardly any. Only a few."
The man turned off the lights to the stand.
"Hey Pat,I know a place at the bottom of Revolution where the geek bites off the chicken's head."
"Now that's something I've got to see."

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Great story Rick.
I heard a great one about Beau Jack once.
It reminds me of the Speedy Dado story.
Beau Jack started out life as a bootblack. He shined shoes.
Eventually, he became a fighter and made and lost over a million dollars.
He wound up back shining shoes at the Fountainbleu Hotel.
Somebody once asked him,"Beau, you made over a million dollars in the ring, but now your back shining shoes. How does that make you feel?"
Beau looked at the guy and said , "hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

The more I think about it, the more I realize that boxing aint the sport to get into to get rich.
Boxing is the sport to get into to make friends, tell stories and have a few laughs.
And of course, thats the problem nowadays. Nobody is laughing anymore.

Pug...I had my shoes shine by Beau Jack at the Fountainbleu, in 1977 I had Frankie fight Francisco Villegas for Don King in what was the last of the U.S.A tourney he and the Ring were running on ABC, King put us up (Frankie, Johnnie Flores and myself) at the Fountainbleu.

"hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

That line reminded me of a Art Aragon quote, when some ex-pug who didn't do anything in boxing called Aragon a "Has-Been", Artie shot back "its better been a has-been then a never-was"

bennie wrote:

Expug wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Gus Dorazio vs Joe Louis
February 17, 1941, Convention Hall
Philadelphia

Gus Dorazio,he was quite the hellion outside the ring.
It didnt take much for him to bounce a hook off the skull of some unfortunate.

I seem to recall he once killed a man, acting as a union 'heavy. The guy was roughed up and died later at home.

Rick Farris wrote:

Expug wrote:Great story Rick.
I heard a great one about Beau Jack once.
It reminds me of the Speedy Dado story.
Beau Jack started out life as a bootblack. He shined shoes.
Eventually, he became a fighter and made and lost over a million dollars.
He wound up back shining shoes at the Fountainbleu Hotel.
Somebody once asked him,"Beau, you made over a million dollars in the ring, but now your back shining shoes. How does that make you feel?"
Beau looked at the guy and said , "hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

The more I think about it, the more I realize that boxing aint the sport to get into to get rich.
Boxing is the sport to get into to make friends, tell stories and have a few laughs.
And of course, thats the problem nowadays. Nobody is laughing anymore.

So true, Brian. The thing that boxing has lost is it's PERSONALITY. Lucky for us, two boxing personalities still live and are a part of this great thread. . . Hap Navarro and Frank Baltazar Sr. God Bless you both.

Tu amigo . . .

Ricardo

Dongee wrote:Randy and Dagosd:
I honestly think boxing lore means nothing unless it is shared

Thanks for the kind words, Randy, and only once did I have a fighter box for Mel Epstein. I had been sent five young boxers from the Texas border area by a good friend. I was a llicensed matchmaker at the time and could not handle them myself so I turned them over to a respected manager/traner I trusted.

One of the kids was Ramon Tiscareno, who was signed by Mel for a 1952 bout against Sid Flaherty's Eddie Chavez at Butte, Montana. When the fighter and his new manager returned to L.A. they regaled me with stories about the most unruly fight mob they had ever seen in the mining town where boxing was ruled over by Mel Epstein. They had no complaints about Mel himself, but they said the men in the audience were rowdy as hell,

Aside to Dagosd2000:

I lived in San Diego for more than 30 years and on trips to Tijuana we always ate at one of two places; the La Mesa, for seafood, and a little dive downstairs on Revolucion called La Especial. That place had a huge platter with carne asada, beans, rice, guacamole plus fresh tortillasat the fanastic price of a buck (oro). We found the prices had changed the last time we ate there.

hap navarro

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:AFTER THE FIGHTS


Across the boulevard from the Bull ring is the long row of taco stands that is a popular spot for people to stop and eat. Tijuana is known for tacos. When it's the Day Of The Taco in Mexico there are so many people crowding around those stands it's almost impossible to see them. The aroma of the manteca and the crackling of meat frying on the grills is something the memory never forgets. The bright bulbs strung across the front of the stands. Radishes,chiles,cilantro,and salsas of red and green in bowls adorn the stands. After the fights at the bull ring ,we always went to eat at the stands . Tacos Al Pastor with the meat on the spit shaved off into the small hot corn tortillas dipped in the hot manteca tasted wonderfull.
"Si amigo. Con todo."

Me and Pat were hungry after the card at the Bull Ring. We got lucky .We found a stand with two empty stools on the end. We piled the tacos on the white cardboard plates. The grease soaked through the wax paper onto the cardboard.The night air got cold and I was looking at the steam coming off from all the grills.
"Olivares had an easy time with that Jap," I remarked as my plate was being filled with tacos.
"They're not going to risk anything with him down here,"said Pat.
"They'll have a big fight with him later in the year in Los Angeles."
It seemed that everyone at the Bull Ring crossed the boulevard to eat tacos at the stands. As fast as the tacos were filled on the plates, they were emptied by the happy aficianados.

I was starting to fill my stomach. The cold beer in the brown bottles helped wash it down.
"Someone told me there are 7000 registered fighters in Mexico,"I said.
"How many in the U.S.?"
"Not even half that number."
Pat was starting to slow down too. We just drank beer.
"I don't think Mexico would have near that number of fighters if they didn't border the U.S.,"I said.
"Yeh,it would probably have as many fighters as Panama."
"The fighters know in Mexico if they do well,it's the big money in the U.S."
"Yeh,the Forum or maybe New York."
The beer was beginning to warm me up . I didn't feel the cold anymore.
"You're right. They didn't want to risk anything with Olivares tonight."
"Picking the Japanese guy was a coup. The crowd liked to see him get his ass kicked."
"Especially what Shibata did to Saldivar."
The crowd dwindled down. Some of the stands had no one in front of them. Me and Pat sat at the end of the stand. There were a lot of the empty brown bottles in front of us.
"Another way the U.S. impacts Mexico,"I said. My mind became very clear. I was sure of my statements.
"I don't follow."
"They fight well here,and then make the big money on the U.S. side."
"Yeh."
I looked along the long row of stands. Just me and Pat were left. The man making the tacos came over.
"Se cabo. We close."

I paid the man for the tacos and beer. I put my arm on Pat's shoulder. He looked up..
"Of those 7000,how many make the big money?"asked Pat.
"Hardly any. Only a few."
The man turned off the lights to the stand.
"Hey Pat,I know a place at the bottom of Revolution where the geek bites off the chicken's head."
"Now that's something I've got to see."

Diego...Any of those taco stands have "tripas tacos"? I love tripas.....

Rick Farris wrote:

Expug wrote:Great story Rick.
I heard a great one about Beau Jack once.
It reminds me of the Speedy Dado story.
Beau Jack started out life as a bootblack. He shined shoes.
Eventually, he became a fighter and made and lost over a million dollars.
He wound up back shining shoes at the Fountainbleu Hotel.
Somebody once asked him,"Beau, you made over a million dollars in the ring, but now your back shining shoes. How does that make you feel?"
Beau looked at the guy and said , "hell, I dont mind. If it wasnt for boxing, I would have been shining shoes my whole life".

The more I think about it, the more I realize that boxing aint the sport to get into to get rich.
Boxing is the sport to get into to make friends, tell stories and have a few laughs.
And of course, thats the problem nowadays. Nobody is laughing anymore.

So true, Brian. The thing that boxing has lost is it's PERSONALITY. Lucky for us, two boxing personalities still live and are a part of this great thread. . . Hap Navarro and Frank Baltazar Sr. God Bless you both.

Tu amigo . . .

Ricardo

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Hap, I've only seen two tapes of Ortiz in action. One a very long time ago; the other recently. In the one that I have, he is defending his title against a shorter opponent (whose name I can't recall - the guy looked like he was about 4'10"). Ortiz did something that I've never seen another fighter do - at least, not as smoothly or with as much success: Several times, Ortiz would lean forward slightly at the waist and drop his hands to about chest level as if daring the other fellow to hit him. Then, when the guy tried, Ortiz would lay some absolutely beautiful counters on him. Was that his regular modus operandi, or did he do it only in that one fight?

Watching that tape of him was a real pleasure. He was an artist in the ring.

That was Luis Castillo....

And I'm going to be watching Manuel Ortiz vs. Luis Castillo in about ten minutes. I consider it "prizefighting relief" after an overdose of contemporary ring "action". I guess I'm spoiled. I came up in L.A. when real fighters fought their hearts out for little money and defined the word "heart" for boxing fans. Today? NADA!

-Rick

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:AFTER THE FIGHTS


Across the boulevard from the Bull ring is the long row of taco stands that is a popular spot for people to stop and eat. Tijuana is known for tacos. When it's the Day Of The Taco in Mexico there are so many people crowding around those stands it's almost impossible to see them. The aroma of the manteca and the crackling of meat frying on the grills is something the memory never forgets. The bright bulbs strung across the front of the stands. Radishes,chiles,cilantro,and salsas of red and green in bowls adorn the stands. After the fights at the bull ring ,we always went to eat at the stands . Tacos Al Pastor with the meat on the spit shaved off into the small hot corn tortillas dipped in the hot manteca tasted wonderfull.
"Si amigo. Con todo."

Me and Pat were hungry after the card at the Bull Ring. We got lucky .We found a stand with two empty stools on the end. We piled the tacos on the white cardboard plates. The grease soaked through the wax paper onto the cardboard.The night air got cold and I was looking at the steam coming off from all the grills.
"Olivares had an easy time with that Jap," I remarked as my plate was being filled with tacos.
"They're not going to risk anything with him down here,"said Pat.
"They'll have a big fight with him later in the year in Los Angeles."
It seemed that everyone at the Bull Ring crossed the boulevard to eat tacos at the stands. As fast as the tacos were filled on the plates, they were emptied by the happy aficianados.

I was starting to fill my stomach. The cold beer in the brown bottles helped wash it down.
"Someone told me there are 7000 registered fighters in Mexico,"I said.
"How many in the U.S.?"
"Not even half that number."
Pat was starting to slow down too. We just drank beer.
"I don't think Mexico would have near that number of fighters if they didn't border the U.S.,"I said.
"Yeh,it would probably have as many fighters as Panama."
"The fighters know in Mexico if they do well,it's the big money in the U.S."
"Yeh,the Forum or maybe New York."
The beer was beginning to warm me up . I didn't feel the cold anymore.
"You're right. They didn't want to risk anything with Olivares tonight."
"Picking the Japanese guy was a coup. The crowd liked to see him get his ass kicked."
"Especially what Shibata did to Saldivar."
The crowd dwindled down. Some of the stands had no one in front of them. Me and Pat sat at the end of the stand. There were a lot of the empty brown bottles in front of us.
"Another way the U.S. impacts Mexico,"I said. My mind became very clear. I was sure of my statements.
"I don't follow."
"They fight well here,and then make the big money on the U.S. side."
"Yeh."
I looked along the long row of stands. Just me and Pat were left. The man making the tacos came over.
"Se cabo. We close."

I paid the man for the tacos and beer. I put my arm on Pat's shoulder. He looked up..
"Of those 7000,how many make the big money?"asked Pat.
"Hardly any. Only a few."
The man turned off the lights to the stand.
"Hey Pat,I know a place at the bottom of Revolution where the geek bites off the chicken's head."
"Now that's something I've got to see."

Diego...Any of those taco stands have "tripas tacos"? I love tripas.....

Tripas. Now what would a Tijuana taco stand be without tripas? Cesos, gordas,tacos al vapor,mulas. I'm tellin' ya' Frank,you can't get a decent taco in San Diego.

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Hap, I've only seen two tapes of Ortiz in action. One a very long time ago; the other recently. In the one that I have, he is defending his title against a shorter opponent (whose name I can't recall - the guy looked like he was about 4'10"). Ortiz did something that I've never seen another fighter do - at least, not as smoothly or with as much success: Several times, Ortiz would lean forward slightly at the waist and drop his hands to about chest level as if daring the other fellow to hit him. Then, when the guy tried, Ortiz would lay some absolutely beautiful counters on him. Was that his regular modus operandi, or did he do it only in that one fight?

Watching that tape of him was a real pleasure. He was an artist in the ring.

That was Luis Castillo....

And I'm going to be watching Manuel Ortiz vs. Luis Castillo in about ten minutes. I consider it "prizefighting relief" after an overdose of contemporary ring "action". I guess I'm spoiled. I came up in L.A. when real fighters fought their hearts out for little money and defined the word "heart" for boxing fans. Today? NADA!

-Rick