BoxRec

Stick this in off topic, it's not a boxing match, as per the promoters own words

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:52

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:26

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:22

It's nonsense to think those complaining about it most will view it the most - it's PPV so £25plus .. nope the best hope is the MMA casuals get mugged into buying it. And I simply don't see it.

If they dressed it up as Ngannou and Jon Jones doing a tag team type scenario against Fury with boxing rules then maybe the MMA crowd may feel that evens out the deficits enough to make it competitive.
But an older smaller guy with no boxing experience fighting the heavyweight champion?? Nah, not even the MMA crowd are daft enough to waste their money on it.

They will no doubt fill out the venue with celebrities but PPV will be dire.

We'll see anyways

The casuals is where the big money comes from and the casuals will lap this up just like they lapped up Mayweather-McGregor.

I agree in part.

However Mayweather and McGregor were each very good at selling PPVs.
It was also the first big crossover of UFC and boxing .. and Mayweather had his own team promoting it to the hardcore boxing crowd and Dana pulled out all the stops selling it to the UFC crowd.
But now Fury is at the stage where he has lost his previous popularity .. of course there are a few hardcore fans as Doofy/Dribble/Mick demonstrate .. but they too are a very small minority.
With Dana doing his best to dissuade the UFC fans .. that then will feed into the casuals too.

It's great Ngannou is making good money and I certainly don't begrudge him. And whilst I feel Fury is just taking and taking from boxing, it's easy to see the sense of making millions risk free.

Fury had real potential to make a positive and enviable legacy in boxing. He appeared to have the skills to dominate over a very poor era. He may have been able to emulate something like Lennox Lewis respect, but instead he has taken the Nik Valuev route.

Valuev In reverse really - when the big guy was a curiosity and bullying no-hopers.

at this point you have to conclude Fury and his camp would prefer to avoid Usyk, because they realise the Ukrainian wouldn't just beat Fury, he might make him look silly doing it.

and I'm a Fury fan.

golden_balls wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 08:09 at this point you have to conclude Fury and his camp would prefer to avoid Usyk, because they realise the Ukrainian wouldn't just beat Fury, he might make him look silly doing it.

and I'm a Fury fan.

I just don't think his ego could take losing to someone the size of Usyk, there are still people out there that believe Fury is some kind of reincarnation of Ali after the Wilder fights, Usyk might well show that isn't the case and his team know it.

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 13:37

golden_balls wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 08:09 at this point you have to conclude Fury and his camp would prefer to avoid Usyk, because they realise the Ukrainian wouldn't just beat Fury, he might make him look silly doing it.

and I'm a Fury fan.

I just don't think his ego could take losing to someone the size of Usyk, there are still people out there that believe Fury is some kind of reincarnation of Ali after the Wilder fights, Usyk might well show that isn't the case and his team know it.

Just massively shuddered at Ali and Fury being mentioned in the same sentence. Rivalled only by Einstein and Baldrick from Blackadder being mentioned in this one.

Like many others, I was duped and warmed to Fury post the Wider fights. But like Baldrick, he is now a thick, pitiful, laughing stock sort of a bloke.

The thing with Fury, even though 95% of the public have turned on him, even his biggest critics don't criticize his ability, he's wasted too much of his career

allegedly talks utter tosh on Bunce’s podcast …… “proper fight “ … “anything can happen when two big guys are in there” ……. “ this guy can whack” etc and Buncey puts on his nodding dog hat and agrees with every word he says.

Poor.

Thing is, a lot of mma bruh types are thick when it comes to boxing and will think their man will be in with a chance cos he can dig without gloves on.

Ngannou is used to getting hit with tiny MMA gloves which are close to being hit by a bare Knuckle.
Furthermore Fury may have better boxing skills but will never be able to hurt Ngannou wearing pillows for gloves and Ngannou will just street fight him.

Coco wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 16:12 Ngannou is used to getting hit with tiny MMA gloves which are close to being hit by a bare Knuckle.
Furthermore Fury may have better boxing skills but will never be able to hurt Ngannou wearing pillows for gloves and Ngannou will just street fight him.

Bet you he stops him with a body shot.

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:22

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 03:59 It'll do good numbers largely because the people complaining the most about it will view it the most. I'm kinda amused at all the negativity because I don't recall people flipping out when De LA Hoya fought Shaq, etc. It's irrational. This is prizefighting gentlemen, and money is the name of the game. If Fury is getting huge money for a low risk bout then the Usyk match is going to be extremely expensive.

It's nonsense to think those complaining about it most will view it the most - it's PPV so £25plus .. nope the best hope is the MMA casuals get mugged into buying it. And I simply don't see it.

I just know human nature.

People "hate watch" a lot of things, like Howard Stern back in the day or the Velma series that came out recently. It's basically a car crash event and everybody tunes in to watch the car crash.

I am sure there are a lot of people that won't buy the pay per view. I'm one of them. Not so much because it's a gimmick fight but because of Saudi Arabia. I will not give one cent to the Saudis. However, you can bet a lot of people will tune in on illegal streams or watch highlights on YouTube.

I think a lot of the mma crowd will tune in because many of them bought into the lie that Conor MacGregor actually did good against Mayweather, rather than the reality that Mayweather let him coast.

And of course the same people who forked out money to see Jake Paul and Tommy Fury, KSI, etc will tune in to watch because they see it as a genuine, "What if?," when anyone with a clue knows a pro debuter no matter his credentials is not going to beat the recognized #1 heavyweight boxer in the world.

That being said Fury-Ngannou is already bigger than Joshua-Whyte and Usyk-Dubois combined, which is maybe the reason why Fury took it in the first place to demonstrate he is the #1 draw in heavyweight boxing.

And the critics can't say anything because NOBODY CARED when Joshua & Hearn, as well as Wilder, tried to get fight deals with Francis Ngannou and Dana White cannot say anything either because he wanted Fury-Jones, and is only bitching now because his former champion got it instead.

The only people who can bitch is the true fans. I don't because it's a low risk high reward contest that isn't going to upset the applecart. Now that Tyson Fury has his own deals through a separate promotion out in Saudi Arabia its one step closer to undisputed.

Furthermore, I suspect Saudi Arabia to essentially force their own people to watch it much like North Korea forced their people to watch Ric Flair vs Antonio Inoki back in the 1990s so it will do big numbers.

Coco wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 16:12 Ngannou is used to getting hit with tiny MMA gloves which are close to being hit by a bare Knuckle.
Furthermore Fury may have better boxing skills but will never be able to hurt Ngannou wearing pillows for gloves and Ngannou will just street fight him.

I hope you found this wittier than it came across as

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 16:40

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:22

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 03:59 It'll do good numbers largely because the people complaining the most about it will view it the most. I'm kinda amused at all the negativity because I don't recall people flipping out when De LA Hoya fought Shaq, etc. It's irrational. This is prizefighting gentlemen, and money is the name of the game. If Fury is getting huge money for a low risk bout then the Usyk match is going to be extremely expensive.

It's nonsense to think those complaining about it most will view it the most - it's PPV so £25plus .. nope the best hope is the MMA casuals get mugged into buying it. And I simply don't see it.

I just know human nature.

People "hate watch" a lot of things, like Howard Stern back in the day or the Velma series that came out recently. It's basically a car crash event and everybody tunes in to watch the car crash.

I am sure there are a lot of people that won't buy the pay per view. I'm one of them. Not so much because it's a gimmick fight but because of Saudi Arabia. I will not give one cent to the Saudis. However, you can bet a lot of people will tune in on illegal streams or watch highlights on YouTube.

I think a lot of the mma crowd will tune in because many of them bought into the lie that Conor MacGregor actually did good against Mayweather, rather than the reality that Mayweather let him coast.

And of course the same people who forked out money to see Jake Paul and Tommy Fury, KSI, etc will tune in to watch because they see it as a genuine, "What if?," when anyone with a clue knows a pro debuter no matter his credentials is going to beat the recognized #1 heavyweight boxer in the world.

That being said Fury-Ngannou is already bigger than Joshua-Whyte and Usyk-Dubois combined, which is maybe the reason why Fury took it in the first place to demonstrate he is the #1 draw in heavyweight boxing.

And the critics can't say anything because NOBODY CARED when Joshua & Hearn, as well as Wilder, tried to get fight deals with Francis Ngannou and Dana White cannot say anything either because he wanted Fury-Jones, and is only bitching now because his former champion got it instead.

The only people who can bitch is the true fans. I don't because it's a low risk high reward contest that isn't going to upset the applecart. Now that Tyson Fury has his own deals through a separate promotion out in Saudi Arabia its one step closer to undisputed.

Furthermore, I suspect Saudi Arabia to essentially force their own people to watch it much like North Korea forced their people to watch Ric Flair vs Antonio Inoki back in the 1990s so it will do big numbers.

Wayyyyyy too long sorry Henry. Can you summarise please

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 16:40

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:22

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 03:59 It'll do good numbers largely because the people complaining the most about it will view it the most. I'm kinda amused at all the negativity because I don't recall people flipping out when De LA Hoya fought Shaq, etc. It's irrational. This is prizefighting gentlemen, and money is the name of the game. If Fury is getting huge money for a low risk bout then the Usyk match is going to be extremely expensive.

It's nonsense to think those complaining about it most will view it the most - it's PPV so £25plus .. nope the best hope is the MMA casuals get mugged into buying it. And I simply don't see it.

I just know human nature.

People "hate watch" a lot of things

Too pissed to elaborate but freak show stuff always been a big head turner so henry spot on here

'Why Fury vs Ngannou may tarnish the Gypsy King's legacy for ever' (The Independent)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/box ... 73910.html

Like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, by the time this one gets close people will not only be arguing the UFC man can win, many will be putting money on him. It made no sense then and it will make no sense now but that is how it will play out.

This thing will virtually promote itself and what might be missing will be made up for in Fury antics. Enjoy the show or don't watch but it isn't going away and those connected will make plenty of this stuff $$$$$$$.

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 17:48 Like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, by the time this one gets close people will not only be arguing the UFC man can win, many will be putting money on him. It made no sense then and it will make no sense now but that is how it will play out.

This thing will virtually promote itself and what might be missing will be made up for in Fury antics. Enjoy the show or don't watch but it isn't going away and those connected will make plenty of this stuff $$$$$$$.

I have no doubt it will do big business. I won't watch it, but they have calculated that there are enough dafties out there who will watch it (before feeling short changed after the mismatch has concluded, and then realising they have been sold a pup).

The point of that Independent article is that Fury could earn more (therefore doing better business (if business is their entire motivation) by taking on Uysk in the biggest Heavyweight fight of all time; and yet, Fury has chosen to box someone who is older, smaller, shorter, with a worse reach than him, who is coming off an injury, and who has never boxed before, as a professional or as an amateur.

It's difficult to listen to his promotional team at the moment. They are outstanding at what they do (and have delivered some fantastic shows over many years and are great at bringing people through & developing talent), but it seems that they are having to debase themselves to sell this sorry chapter.

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 17:48 Like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, by the time this one gets close people will not only be arguing the UFC man can win, many will be putting money on him. It made no sense then and it will make no sense now but that is how it will play out.

This thing will virtually promote itself and what might be missing will be made up for in Fury antics. Enjoy the show or don't watch but it isn't going away and those connected will make plenty of this stuff $$$$$$$.

Honest question. Did people bet on the WWE shenanigans?

The bets will be done by how many people bet on who, not by who the bookies think will win

Worth betting strongly on Fury

big lennox wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:37

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 17:48 Like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, by the time this one gets close people will not only be arguing the UFC man can win, many will be putting money on him. It made no sense then and it will make no sense now but that is how it will play out.

This thing will virtually promote itself and what might be missing will be made up for in Fury antics. Enjoy the show or don't watch but it isn't going away and those connected will make plenty of this stuff $$$$$$$.

I have no doubt it will do big business. I won't watch it, but they have calculated that there are enough dafties out there who will watch it (before feeling short changed after the mismatch has concluded, and then realising they have been sold a pup).

The point of that Independent article is that Fury could earn more (therefore doing better business (if business is their entire motivation) by taking on Uysk in the biggest Heavyweight fight of all time; and yet, Fury has chosen to box someone who is older, smaller, shorter, with a worse reach than him, who is coming off an injury, and who has never boxed before, as a professional or as an amateur.

It's difficult to listen to his promotional team at the moment. They are outstanding at what they do (and have delivered some fantastic shows over many years and are great at bringing people through & developing talent), but it seems that they are having to debase themselves to sell this sorry chapter.

Call them dafties. Call them casuals. Could them theatre goers. Call them what you like. But that is where the big money comes from.

Do you think the 94,000 who turned up for Fury-Whyte were all hardcore boxing fans? Not to mention those who paid the PPV.

Sh1t no, the vast majority were casuals and their dollars are 100 cents to the dollar, just like any other dollar and there are way more of them to entice along.

The big money comes from the casuals and they will be lining up to part with it for this.

While this fight is a joke, if its giving you the sads remember theres some nice heavyweight matchups involving brits coming up. so chin up brittish boxrecers...

-AJ vs whyte
-DDD vs usyk
-Joyce vs zhang
-Derrick reported a possibility on AJ undercard.
-lil fisher vs armstrong
-wardly vs adeley orderd (cant see this not being made)
- Dave Allen vs Clarke (rumoured)
-Robson vs iggy
-marty harris vs Dovbyshchenko
-Jay vs Saleem
-moses vs Espindola...

Not all top levle, but all interesting fights involving brits heavies.

gregregegg wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:40 While this fight is a joke, if its giving you the sads remember theres some nice heavyweight matchups involving brits coming up. so chin up brittish boxrecers...

-AJ vs whyte
-DDD vs usyk
-Joyce vs zhang
-Derrick reported a possibility on AJ undercard.
-lil fisher vs armstrong
-wardly vs adeley orderd (cant see this not being made)
- Dave Allen vs Clarke (rumoured)
-Robson vs iggy
-marty harris vs Dovbyshchenko
-Jay vs Saleem
-moses vs Espindola...

Not all top levle, but all interesting fights involving brits heavies.

That is good to put everything into perspective. There are some cracking fights on that list which I think will live up to expectations.

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 17:02

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 16:40

tonyevs wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 06:22

It's nonsense to think those complaining about it most will view it the most - it's PPV so £25plus .. nope the best hope is the MMA casuals get mugged into buying it. And I simply don't see it.

I just know human nature.

People "hate watch" a lot of things, like Howard Stern back in the day or the Velma series that came out recently. It's basically a car crash event and everybody tunes in to watch the car crash.

I am sure there are a lot of people that won't buy the pay per view. I'm one of them. Not so much because it's a gimmick fight but because of Saudi Arabia. I will not give one cent to the Saudis. However, you can bet a lot of people will tune in on illegal streams or watch highlights on YouTube.

I think a lot of the mma crowd will tune in because many of them bought into the lie that Conor MacGregor actually did good against Mayweather, rather than the reality that Mayweather let him coast.

And of course the same people who forked out money to see Jake Paul and Tommy Fury, KSI, etc will tune in to watch because they see it as a genuine, "What if?," when anyone with a clue knows a pro debuter no matter his credentials is going to beat the recognized #1 heavyweight boxer in the world.

That being said Fury-Ngannou is already bigger than Joshua-Whyte and Usyk-Dubois combined, which is maybe the reason why Fury took it in the first place to demonstrate he is the #1 draw in heavyweight boxing.

And the critics can't say anything because NOBODY CARED when Joshua & Hearn, as well as Wilder, tried to get fight deals with Francis Ngannou and Dana White cannot say anything either because he wanted Fury-Jones, and is only bitching now because his former champion got it instead.

The only people who can bitch is the true fans. I don't because it's a low risk high reward contest that isn't going to upset the applecart. Now that Tyson Fury has his own deals through a separate promotion out in Saudi Arabia its one step closer to undisputed.

Furthermore, I suspect Saudi Arabia to essentially force their own people to watch it much like North Korea forced their people to watch Ric Flair vs Antonio Inoki back in the 1990s so it will do big numbers.

Wayyyyyy too long sorry Henry. Can you summarise please

Whether we like it or not it will do great business.

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:18

big lennox wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:37

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 17:48 Like the Mayweather-McGregor fight, by the time this one gets close people will not only be arguing the UFC man can win, many will be putting money on him. It made no sense then and it will make no sense now but that is how it will play out.

This thing will virtually promote itself and what might be missing will be made up for in Fury antics. Enjoy the show or don't watch but it isn't going away and those connected will make plenty of this stuff $$$$$$$.

I have no doubt it will do big business. I won't watch it, but they have calculated that there are enough dafties out there who will watch it (before feeling short changed after the mismatch has concluded, and then realising they have been sold a pup).

The point of that Independent article is that Fury could earn more (therefore doing better business (if business is their entire motivation) by taking on Uysk in the biggest Heavyweight fight of all time; and yet, Fury has chosen to box someone who is older, smaller, shorter, with a worse reach than him, who is coming off an injury, and who has never boxed before, as a professional or as an amateur.

It's difficult to listen to his promotional team at the moment. They are outstanding at what they do (and have delivered some fantastic shows over many years and are great at bringing people through & developing talent), but it seems that they are having to debase themselves to sell this sorry chapter.

Call them dafties. Call them casuals. Could them theatre goers. Call them what you like. But that is where the big money comes from.

Do you think the 94,000 who turned up for Fury-Whyte were all hardcore boxing fans? Not to mention those who paid the PPV.

Sh1t no, the vast majority were casuals and their dollars are 100 cents to the dollar, just like any other dollar and there are way more of them to entice along.

The big money comes from the casuals and they will be lining up to part with it for this.

I get that. Calling them impressionable youths is probably fairer than calling them dafties.

But, I don't get where the excitement is going to come from when the punter turns up and the outcome of the 'fight' is a foregone conclusion.

I guess, for some people, there will be a certain frisson that Ngannou could get really badly hurt: the fans that turned up for Fury - Chisora III booed the stoppage.

big lennox wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:57

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 19:18

big lennox wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 18:37

I have no doubt it will do big business. I won't watch it, but they have calculated that there are enough dafties out there who will watch it (before feeling short changed after the mismatch has concluded, and then realising they have been sold a pup).

The point of that Independent article is that Fury could earn more (therefore doing better business (if business is their entire motivation) by taking on Uysk in the biggest Heavyweight fight of all time; and yet, Fury has chosen to box someone who is older, smaller, shorter, with a worse reach than him, who is coming off an injury, and who has never boxed before, as a professional or as an amateur.

It's difficult to listen to his promotional team at the moment. They are outstanding at what they do (and have delivered some fantastic shows over many years and are great at bringing people through & developing talent), but it seems that they are having to debase themselves to sell this sorry chapter.

Call them dafties. Call them casuals. Could them theatre goers. Call them what you like. But that is where the big money comes from.

Do you think the 94,000 who turned up for Fury-Whyte were all hardcore boxing fans? Not to mention those who paid the PPV.

Sh1t no, the vast majority were casuals and their dollars are 100 cents to the dollar, just like any other dollar and there are way more of them to entice along.

The big money comes from the casuals and they will be lining up to part with it for this.

I get that. Calling them impressionable youths is probably fairer than calling them dafties.

But, I don't get where the excitement is going to come from when the punter turns up and the outcome of the 'fight' is a foregone conclusion.

I guess, for some people, there will be a certain frisson that Ngannou could get really badly hurt: the fans that turned up for Fury - Chisora III booed the stoppage.

The point is, it doesn't matter how we refer to them. They are where the lion's share of the money for big $$$ fights comes from.

If big $$$ fights relied entirely on hard core boxing $ the promoters would all be going broke and the fighters would all be making peanuts.

I won't be paying for it. You won't be paying for it, and most hard core fans probably won't pay for it. But the casuals will part with millions and millions for it.