Paul McCloskey being listed as 'United Kingdom.'

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I think I understand your position now - basically if they consider themselves Irish and hold an Irish passport but took out a British passport as well just so they could fight for the British title and advance their careers then that makes them automatically primarily British in perpetuity even if they continue to say they are Irish. Is that right?

I wouldn't agree with that position but at least I understand where you are coming from.

Also you haven't really given an answer to question B.

I said "B. Do you have to produce a British passport to be eligible to fight for the British title? I don't know. I know that to fight for an Irish title you have to produce evidence that you are entitled to an Irish passport but not an Irish passport itself."

You countered by saying Oboh and Bayaar could only fight for the British title when they got British citizenship. But that isn't the question - McCloskey is entitled to British citizenship by being born in Northern Ireland but may not have taken it out.

This happens a lot in football - Chris Birchall spent an interview stating how he was a proud Englishman and England comes first in his heart even though he plays for Trinidad and Tobago. Of couurse he is English but for footballing record purposes he is certainly a Trinidadian. With the sportspeople of Northern Ireland - as you know with the GFA agreement - becoming a British (or an Irish) citizen is a concious decision - now if McCloskey fights and wins the British title, he can't start complaining about being classified as British. If any fighter - even if they were born next door to me - fights for IBU title and considers themselves Irish then they are getting no argument off me about how they see themselves but if McCloskey won the British title for monertary reasons and to further his career and nothing else then gets upset about being classed as British in boxing terms then he deserves litttle sympathy off me. But in the grand scheme of things - it can't be argued about what he is and where he comes from.

[banjo]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

That's a bit odd, next time I'm at Oulton Park I'm going to make a banner saying "Ryuichi Kiyonari Is British"



Which as you can see ^ he clearly ain't British but he's a British champion 2 times.

[slapbangwhallop]

I think I understand your position now - basically if they consider themselves Irish and hold an Irish passport but took out a British passport as well just so they could fight for the British title and advance their careers then that makes them automatically primarily British in perpetuity even if they continue to say they are Irish. Is that right?

I wouldn't agree with that position but at least I understand where you are coming from.

Also you haven't really given an answer to question B.

I said "B. Do you have to produce a British passport to be eligible to fight for the British title? I don't know. I know that to fight for an Irish title you have to produce evidence that you are entitled to an Irish passport but not an Irish passport itself."

You countered by saying Oboh and Bayaar could only fight for the British title when they got British citizenship. But that isn't the question - McCloskey is entitled to British citizenship by being born in Northern Ireland but may not have taken it out.

This happens a lot in football - Chris Birchall spent an interview stating how he was a proud Englishman and England comes first in his heart even though he plays for Trinidad and Tobago. Of couurse he is English but for footballing record purposes he is certainly a Trinidadian. With the sportspeople of Northern Ireland - as you know with the GFA agreement - becoming a British (or an Irish) citizen is a concious decision - now if McCloskey fights and wins the British title, he can't start complaining about being classified as British. If any fighter - even if they were born next door to me - fights for IBU title and considers themselves Irish then they are getting no argument off me about how they see themselves but if McCloskey won the British title for monertary reasons and to further his career and nothing else then gets upset about being classed as British in boxing terms then he deserves litttle sympathy off me. But in the grand scheme of things - it can't be argued about what he is and where he comes from.

Well you've just answered a different question than I posed. Any chance you answer those questions?

"it can't be argued about what he is and where he comes from" - no one is arguing about where he comes comes mate.

Interesting that you use language such as "complaining" and "sympathy" and Terry uses words like "hijack" - I find it very revealing.

[DavidPayne]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

That's a bit odd, next time I'm at Oulton Park I'm going to make a banner saying "Ryuichi Kiyonari Is British"



Which as you can see ^ he clearly ain't British but he's a British champion 2 times. :bag:

What about this picture stops him being British then? Because he's smiling?

[banjo]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

That's a bit odd, next time I'm at Oulton Park I'm going to make a banner saying "Ryuichi Kiyonari Is British"



Which as you can see ^ he clearly ain't British but he's a British champion 2 times.

What about this picture stops him being British then? Because he's smiling?

Yes, if he was a Brit of Japanese descent then he'd be glum.

Look at him, broken leg and he's still grinning like a cheshire cat.

[Counter-puncher]

That's a bit odd, next time I'm at Oulton Park I'm going to make a banner saying "Ryuichi Kiyonari Is British"



Which as you can see ^ he clearly ain't British but he's a British champion 2 times.

What about this picture stops him being British then? Because he's smiling?

Nah, he can't be British because he's consistently winning. Though if he slips to whining, well you do the math. If he start whinnying then he's neigh-ly there, he'll be close to HORSE.

all roads lead to horse.

[Fingalar]

this is a good example of why the troubles over there have gone on for so long..and also why there are problems all over the world..does it fkin matter what country anybody is from? i couldnt give a sht if I was a boxer and they put me down as irish when i am not..i don't care..and maybe if there were more people in the world who did not have chips on their shoulders relating to nationality and religion we would have a more peaceful place?

we all eat, piss and sht..we all bleed when cut..we all end up dead...fer fks sake grow up

Yeah but no-one ever calls a British person Irish ever. It's only Irish people who are almost forced to say they are British when they are not.

[slapbangwhallop]

'Hijack' as a verbal form of subconscious confession. Are you by any chance a member of the British police force sent from the 1980s to fit people up for the most spurious of reasons? If so, you'll never take me alive, cobber.

No? Ah, psychology now, is it. I know a guy who is a psychologist. I asked him how he got into that line of work and if it is tough to get qualified. He said, "Nah, the entrance level test is to merely log into a forum, read a few posts and then start doing a bit of cod-analysis. Never refer to it as 'analysis', though, because most users will assume that you are asking for gay sex."

We can all assume certain things. For instance that some people's insistence of living their lives in under neat little labels is a bit suspect and suggests a lack of personal development. Not me. You're a decent enough chap, Leonard and I'm sure that Lirva, who I presume is the OP, is too.

As for national identity, tricky, isn't it. For instance, whenever I put on my German Army jacket I feel the overwhelming need to carpet bomb the local industrial estate. I don't have any bombs so I resort to poohing in front of these sheet metal buildings whilst yelling, "Ach tung Hasselhoff!". Last time out a very vexed call centre worker popped his head out off the window and yelled, 'Oi, geezah, what's yer game' and I was immediately thrown into confusion by the fact he had a London accident. Next thing I knew I was in the local train station demanding, 'A train back to Manchester', a request that fell on deaf ears. and which led to my arrest and sectioning as per the mental health act.

However, I digress. I am with David Hume on this issue. He said that national stereotypes are fundamental to understanding, and laughing at, the world but defining yourself by them is an act of sheer lunacy.

Fingalar, isn't that the codename for finger raping a Scouser?!

Agh thanks Tel, I'll sleep well tonight.

But next time you moan about JCCJ being installed as #1 mandatory by the WBC etc I'll be sure to be behind you to tell you that if you don't like it you can fornicate off and start your own alphabet organisation if you don't like it!

Don't think the thought hadn't crossed my mind about the OP being Lirva as well - but whats right is right.

[bad mamma jamma]

this is a good example of why the troubles over there have gone on for so long..and also why there are problems all over the world..does it fkin matter what country anybody is from? i couldnt give a sht if I was a boxer and they put me down as irish when i am not..i don't care..and maybe if there were more people in the world who did not have chips on their shoulders relating to nationality and religion we would have a more peaceful place?

we all eat, piss and sht..we all bleed when cut..we all end up dead...fer fks sake grow up

Yeah but no-one ever calls a British person Irish ever. It's only Irish people who are almost forced to say they are British when they are not.

true, i accept what you say..but you surely understand that as Paul is from NI then he is classed as British - Irish, not just Irish. Internationally he is regarded as British and not Irish. I am not saying that is right but it is what it is unfortunately.

[mickey1975]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

so if you dont regard yourself as European you shouldnt fight for the European title either eh?

Well,im English and am comfortable with England being part of Europe.If i felt strongly against this i wouldnt dream of contesting their title.

[bad mamma jamma]

this is a good example of why the troubles over there have gone on for so long..and also why there are problems all over the world..does it fkin matter what country anybody is from? i couldnt give a sht if I was a boxer and they put me down as irish when i am not..i don't care..and maybe if there were more people in the world who did not have chips on their shoulders relating to nationality and religion we would have a more peaceful place?

we all eat, piss and sht..we all bleed when cut..we all end up dead...fer fks sake grow up

that is truly beautiful. I endorse this sentiment.

Why not do away with the having the "nationality" field altogether then, eh? oh wait.........

wouldnt it be more grown up and a sign that everyone respected each others nationalities if we didnt shoehorn all fighters under the one umbrella of British?

Nothing against British - its just not all fighters from the north are.

in a perfect world we would not have a Great Britain or UK..each one of us would be separate countries. this wont happen anytome soon, so until then we have to accept how things are..

[banjo]

In a perfect world we wouldn't be seperated by petty boundaries and false senses of "national identity"

[slapbangwhallop]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

so if you dont regard yourself as European you shouldnt fight for the European title either eh?

Well,im English and am comfortable with England being part of Europe.If i felt strongly against this i wouldnt dream of contesting their title.

Yeah, I can see that happening alright.

Manchester's John Murray was quoted as saying "fornicate that for a malarkey, I've decided I am going to vote UKIP in the next election so they can ram their EBU title where the sun dont shine." Terry Dooley declined to comment as he was busy looking for life on Mars.

Despite what many on here think - being Irish doesnt equate to being anti-British.

[J]

stirring up shite again Slap bang what a shock


Remember my comments bout playing the vicitm etc there you go again...


Anyway realyl who guives shite....

there are more important questions to ask Paul Mc, like why wasnt he even the best beatle and did he make heather take her leg off when he shagged her.....

[BigEars]

this is a good example of why the troubles over there have gone on for so long..and also why there are problems all over the world..does it fkin matter what country anybody is from? i couldnt give a sht if I was a boxer and they put me down as irish when i am not..i don't care..and maybe if there were more people in the world who did not have chips on their shoulders relating to nationality and religion we would have a more peaceful place?

we all eat, piss and sht..we all bleed when cut..we all end up dead...fer fks sake grow up

Yeah but no-one ever calls a British person Irish ever. It's only Irish people who are almost forced to say they are British when they are not.

true, i accept what you say..but you surely understand that as Paul is from NI then he is classed as British - Irish, not just Irish. Internationally he is regarded as British and not Irish. I am not saying that is right but it is what it is unfortunately.

British Law would disagree with that statement.........and Irish aswell.

[slapbangwhallop]

stirring up shite again Slap bang what a shock

Remember my comments bout playing the vicitm etc there you go again...

Anyway realyl who guives shite....

there are more important questions to ask Paul Mc, like why wasnt he even the best beatle and did he make heather take her leg off when he shagged her.....

stirring? me?

All I said is that not all people from Northern Ireland are British - hardly ground breaking news.

Nice to see you've left the personal abuse out this time my mixed up myopic friend.

p.s. your jokes are hilarious - keep them coming!

[whiskey]

Good grief,

I could barely squeeze into this thread, what with all the f*cking soap boxes in here already !

Can we not call a truce ?

All go and eat a big filled yorkshire pudding, washed down with ... Guinness ?

[J]

lol im not mixed up mate well maybe a little but not about this...just seems everytime i come on here there is some irish agenda going on with you at the heart of it......which to be honest is getting more than boring as feck!

ps father ted is great...there see i do like the irish

lighten up dude life is too short for such matters.

[slapbangwhallop]

lol im not mixed up mate well maybe a little but not about this...just seems everytime i come on here there is some irish agenda going on with you at the heart of it......which to be honest is getting more than boring as feck!

ps father ted is great...there see i do like the irish

lighten up dude life is too short for such matters.

I'm as lighthearted a gent as you are ever likely to meet hombre.

I'm not sure what an "Irish agenda" is, so cant comment on that.

All I am saying here is that there are some fighters from Northern Ireland that have Irish nationality and Irish citizenship which is recognised by both the British and Irish governments but they are still listed as British by BoxRec.

Like I have said, its wrong, morally, legally, wrong, thats all. If others want to throwing smokescreens up and try and justify it with convoluted spurious reasoning then that is there prerogative, but it doesnt make it right.

[J]

Move away from the topic, do not discuss nor think on it.

its really not that a big a deal.

[Ted]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

Wonder what eamonn magee would think of this???

[mickey1975]

Basically,if you dont regard yourself as British,dont fight for the British Title.

Wonder what eamonn magee would think of this???

He can think what he likes,if he is prepared to box for the British title he should regard himself British.End of.

[J]

isnt he inside? reckon he probably doesnt give a shite rite now.

[slapbangwhallop]

isnt he inside? reckon he probably doesnt give a shite rite now.

Nope. Out and free at the moment.

[J]

aah thats good news, still he probably still doesnt give a *****