BoxRec

There has been some bad trouble at USA shows too. Holyfield/Bowe, Bowe/Golota, Holyfield/Tyson spring to mind.

How would you put that into practice though? The cops I saw in the arena (near the entrance) had cameras but let's say you have footage of 200 people that are known troublemakers, what you gonna do - print them out for security to leaf through as people pile through the main doors?

Buying tickets for boxing is the most anonymous process going. Touts can make it even more anonymous.

Doing something like that would take a huge investment and co-op between promoters and cops on a massive scale that just isn't workable the way it is with football where you've got the same people going to same place week in, week out and security cameras etc and massive police presence that's funded in part by the football club?

Also, women security stuck between a bunch of blokes throwing big punches trying forlornly to appeal to their better side?

Fighters who appeal to the lowest common denominator by signalling a desire to render their opponent unconscious don't help either.

Boxing is a sport. Pure and with grave risk attached, but the objective is to beat the opponent not disable him for life, or kill him. Violence is always a possibility at larger events where the crowd is more partisan and less pure in its devotion to boxing, where the football element gather to be precise..

It isn't a new problem. Hagler v Minter is one large-scale example we can all remember but is now knocking on for 30 years old.

There is however a blurring of the rules of engagement, just as there is in the society at large (hitting women, targetting the meak and blameless, multiple aggressors-single target), I'm not saying the violence of the 70's and 80's ran to an ethical rule book but I still think there were lines which were crossed less readily.

And without those parameters there is much greater liklihood of grave consequences and a more unpredictable nature to it. But itsn't boxing which causes it, it just an forum for it. Perhaps fans should be encouraged to be in the arena before a stipulated time to manage the drink intake a bit better?

Maybe we should all put our fingers in our ears and chant "lalalalala" until it all goes away.

Yeh, lets do that.

If you look at Saturday's show as an example - It was pretty full from 5pm, bar(s) were serving until the Macklin fight as far as I was aware. Even if no-one's had a drink until they're in, that's still 5-6 hours at least of drinking....

youngrell wrote:Oh and the Welsh guy in green, damn that was a punch and half, we was stretched out immediately!

I have video of the green lad going mental just before he gets KTFO. Welsh was he? A lad in blue was with him.


Those Evans fans were pissing in the sinks.

steve richards wrote:
A proportion of Haye fans were coked out of there heads jumping over barriers in Germany, being a right pain in the arse.

Hello Steve - hope you're well mate.

I thought I saw you leading the Wayne Elcock Brum On Tour Massive over some of the barriers after you all got tanked up in FC Nuremberg's bar

Birmingham fans don't get to Europe too often, beyond Benidorm of course.

Pick pocket gangs? What century did you see that show in?[/quote]

LOL!

If my memory serves me right, the NEC supply security at the venue.Dont believe the Police are allowed in, or that use to be the case.

There was loads of security in the foyer areas, but non in force inside the arena.

I was there the last time it Kicked off, worst Ive ever seen. At that time the Promotor, wasnt allowed His own security in the Hall. Cant for the life of me see why.

Most of the security had 'MANN Security' t shirts on and were reasonable, certainly those I spoke to. There were lots of stewards but they certainly weren't there to deal with the kind of problems that arose in some areas of the arena - they were largely older ladies or teenage girls. I did see police in the foyer, and lots of them by the end. Those I could see didn't do much to help the security team maintain order. To be fair to Birminghams fans, I heard loads of them having a go at one of their own who was starting a fight, telling him to f off to the car park of his local if he wanted to carry on like that. He still fought mind

Deserter wrote:

banjo wrote:out of literally millions of people who go out on the ale over a weekend in Britain I bet less than 0.25% are involved in violence, is it a problem? Of course but the idea of high streets resembling a war zone is again a massive exaggeration

I would have thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't using war zone in the literal context to be fair. As for the rest, you just appear to be changing the goalposts of your argument - you initially said it wasn't just Brits, it's the same everywhere else, and yet when several posters have said that simply isn't the case, you haven't been able to argue against that.
If you want to use the scale, it may only be 0.25%, but you can pretty much guarantee that in Europe it's probably something like 0.01%, so in terms of absolute numbers it is far more prevalent in the UK.

In terms of violence at sports events it is worse outside of Britain, that was my original point. My last post was just saying how overexaggerated alcohol related violence is, yeah you don't get it this bad elsewhere but fornicate me it's hardly something which is out of control.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

steve richards wrote:
A proportion of Haye fans were coked out of there heads jumping over barriers in Germany, being a right pain in the arse.

Hello Steve - hope you're well mate.

I thought I saw you leading the Wayne Elcock Brum On Tour Massive over some of the barriers after you all got tanked up in FC Nuremberg's bar

Hi Ian,



I seem to remember a few good nights in Nuremberg's bar, banging the Brum drum but no jumping over barriers!

We had good seats over there mate, not the most expensive but they were sound.

banjo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

banjo wrote:out of literally millions of people who go out on the ale over a weekend in Britain I bet less than 0.25% are involved in violence, is it a problem? Of course but the idea of high streets resembling a war zone is again a massive exaggeration

I would have thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't using war zone in the literal context to be fair. As for the rest, you just appear to be changing the goalposts of your argument - you initially said it wasn't just Brits, it's the same everywhere else, and yet when several posters have said that simply isn't the case, you haven't been able to argue against that.
If you want to use the scale, it may only be 0.25%, but you can pretty much guarantee that in Europe it's probably something like 0.01%, so in terms of absolute numbers it is far more prevalent in the UK.

In terms of violence at sports events it is worse outside of Britain, that was my original point. My last post was just saying how overexaggerated alcohol related violence is, yeah you don't get it this bad elsewhere but eff me it's hardly something which is out of control.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Any situation that is costing the police approx 7 billion quid a year and has a&e depts struggling to cope on the weekends strikes me as being out of control. You also undoubtedly have areas in city centres which are too intimidating for couples, older people etc during the weekend due to the latent threat of violence and that just can't be deemed acceptable.

To be fair, the amount of immigrants that have arrived in the last 10 years have put a strain on the NHS too, and the old bill. How many immigrants are inside again?.....12,000 I read recently.

Deserter wrote:

banjo wrote:

Deserter wrote: I would have thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't using war zone in the literal context to be fair. As for the rest, you just appear to be changing the goalposts of your argument - you initially said it wasn't just Brits, it's the same everywhere else, and yet when several posters have said that simply isn't the case, you haven't been able to argue against that.
If you want to use the scale, it may only be 0.25%, but you can pretty much guarantee that in Europe it's probably something like 0.01%, so in terms of absolute numbers it is far more prevalent in the UK.

In terms of violence at sports events it is worse outside of Britain, that was my original point. My last post was just saying how overexaggerated alcohol related violence is, yeah you don't get it this bad elsewhere but eff me it's hardly something which is out of control.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Any situation that is costing the police approx 7 billion quid a year and has a&e depts struggling to cope on the weekends strikes me as being out of control. You also undoubtedly have areas in city centres which are too intimidating for couples, older people etc during the weekend due to the latent threat of violence and that just can't be deemed acceptable.

Fair enough mate, I'll respect your opinion even if I don't completely agree with it.

carlbcfc wrote:

youngrell wrote:Oh and the Welsh guy in green, damn that was a punch and half, we was stretched out immediately!

I have video of the green lad going mental just before he gets KTFO. Welsh was he? A lad in blue was with him.


Those Evans fans were pissing in the sinks.

You'll have to youtube the vid and post it.

Yeah, please do.

I'm intruiged by the jolly green giant / little green man (delete as appropriate) - was he the one kicking it all off and then got sparko'd?

banjo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

banjo wrote: In terms of violence at sports events it is worse outside of Britain, that was my original point. My last post was just saying how overexaggerated alcohol related violence is, yeah you don't get it this bad elsewhere but eff me it's hardly something which is out of control.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Any situation that is costing the police approx 7 billion quid a year and has a&e depts struggling to cope on the weekends strikes me as being out of control. You also undoubtedly have areas in city centres which are too intimidating for couples, older people etc during the weekend due to the latent threat of violence and that just can't be deemed acceptable.

Fair enough mate, I'll respect your opinion even if I don't completely agree with it.

No worries. Would be dull if we all just came on here and agreed with each other!

I would have already if I could get into my friggin youtube account. Since it has been linked with google it has been fucked. Never recognizes my email addy, and wont let me create another.

banjo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

banjo wrote:out of literally millions of people who go out on the ale over a weekend in Britain I bet less than 0.25% are involved in violence, is it a problem? Of course but the idea of high streets resembling a war zone is again a massive exaggeration

I would have thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't using war zone in the literal context to be fair. As for the rest, you just appear to be changing the goalposts of your argument - you initially said it wasn't just Brits, it's the same everywhere else, and yet when several posters have said that simply isn't the case, you haven't been able to argue against that.
If you want to use the scale, it may only be 0.25%, but you can pretty much guarantee that in Europe it's probably something like 0.01%, so in terms of absolute numbers it is far more prevalent in the UK.

In terms of violence at sports events it is worse outside of Britain, that was my original point. My last post was just saying how overexaggerated alcohol related violence is, yeah you don't get it this bad elsewhere but eff me it's hardly something which is out of control.

It's not exaggerated.

It's a massive problem, and in my experience worse in Britain in terms of being something that happens every Friday night right across the country.

Can't comment on organized hooliganism, as it's not something in which I have been involved either in Britain or abroad, but I don't think it's considerably worse elsewhere.

Whatever, it's important to me that it's happening to boxing.

Boxing these days always seems three steps away from extinction, and the last thing we need is something like in the seventies and eighties in football where loads of people were put off going because of the aggro.

Going to a live boxing show is brilliant entertainment. Plenty of action, lots of fights for your money, and a great atmosphere. I bet this Magnificent 7 show really showed off these qualities. I wouldn't want it to become too polite, as the German shows tend to be, but British boxing needs to stomp out this problem before it becomes a major PR issue.

As soon as it gets a reputation for being a haven for hooliganism, every single tiny bit of trouble will be reported as hooliganism in the press, and it'll take years of having cleaned up its act before the reputation is overcome.

carlbcfc wrote:To be fair, the amount of immigrants that have arrived in the last 10 years have put a strain on the NHS too, and the old bill. How many immigrants are inside again?.....12,000 I read recently.

Don't you mean 'migrants'.

Funny how a completely factually accurate word isn't used any more in general reporting.

DavidPayne wrote:
There is however a blurring of the rules of engagement, just as there is in the society at large (hitting women, targetting the meak and blameless, multiple aggressors-single target), I'm not saying the violence of the 70's and 80's ran to an ethical rule book but I still think there were lines which were crossed less readily.

You might have a good point there. "Football" violence, although totally unacceptable, does differ from random violence, or simple aggression following a fight, in that it has a "gang V gang" feel to it.

Whereas the incident I saw wasn't football related, it was just a pissed up and pissed off Matthew Hall fan, looking to target anyone who seem to cheer for Anthony Small.