BoxRec

A guy can be the best of his era not be as good as someone else who wasn't the best of his era. Not all eras are equal. The heavyweight division went up and down for over 100 years after Sullivan. Boxing was in a transitional stage with Sullivan, which makes it hard to rate him.

Sure but I was rating in terms of accomplishments. The 90s heavyweights benefit in terms of having better training methods and steroids in addition to being much bigger on average.

Plenty of female athletes today have better times than the best male athletes from the 1940s. That doesn't mean that todays women are inherently better athletes than the men of the past.

Jan wrote: ↑27 Feb 2013, 22:37 Are the rumors right or are they just rumors!?

No way. A 90's Tyson destroys the old Foerman.

This was only a rumor.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2026, 12:49 Sure but I was rating in terms of accomplishments. The 90s heavyweights benefit in terms of having better training methods and steroids in addition to being much bigger on average.

Plenty of female athletes today have better times than the best male athletes from the 1940s. That doesn't mean that todays women are inherently better athletes than the men of the past.

Better times at what? The Best Female Boxer there ever was isn't as good as a Regional Amateur Champion.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑01 May 2026, 07:01

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2026, 12:49 Sure but I was rating in terms of accomplishments. The 90s heavyweights benefit in terms of having better training methods and steroids in addition to being much bigger on average.

Plenty of female athletes today have better times than the best male athletes from the 1940s. That doesn't mean that todays women are inherently better athletes than the men of the past.

Better times at what? The Best Female Boxer there ever was isn't as good as a Regional Amateur Champion.

I think swimming and running for one. I think there are women that can outrun Jim Thorpe

Even outswim Usain Bolt.

First, track and swimming are different sports than boxing.
you have virtually no control over what you opponent does. There isn't nearly as much strategy.

Probably more interesting was a Youtube video that post several years ago. Can't find it anymore. A scientist was comparing Jesse Owens to Usain Bolt. He took into consideration threat when Owens competed there were not starting blocks. Accounting for that, he came to the conclusion that Owens and Bolt were almost dead even.
This doesn't take into consideration the far better running shoes that Bolt had; and of course, Performance Enhancing Drugs.

The only edge Bowe has over guys like Patterson and Charles is the colossal size advantage though. I don't think anyone thinks he would beat them if they were close in size.

And that's just a product of heavyweights generally getting bigger over time

In any time there was no Upper limit on the Heavyweight division. So if a guy like Bowe had been around in the 1950's he thoroughly could've wound up much like the Bowe that was around in the 90's. There may not have been as many tempting treats to keep him so out of shape all the time around back then

Bowe was a better fighter inside than Charles and easily Patterson. He also had better chin. Had he been their size, he would not have been as good of a fighter as them. However, if he was about 225, he would have been better than he was.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 May 2026, 16:58 Bowe was a better fighter inside than Charles and easily Patterson. He also had better chin. Had he been their size, he would not have been as good of a fighter as them. However, if he was about 225, he would have been better than he was.

Even if he's 245 and out of shape. He's gonna beat the sh*t out of Charles or Patterson every time.

No evidence Bowe had a better chin relative to his size though it's probably better in absolute terms.

Plenty of guys Bowes size appear to be more durable like say Tucker, McCall, Vitali, etc

Tucker and McCall had good chins. Vitali had 6 rounds against a terrible Lewis and nothing else, so who knows. Bowe had a good chin.

Bowe wasn't dropped often. I believe only Holyfield and Golota had him on the deck. Vitali was never dropped, but didn't really face many especially dangerous hitters.

McCall has an All Time Iron chin. That dude is a Human Anvil. Tucker was a tough guy for sure too. Kinda underrated among the 80's Titleholders, he was a solid competitor in his own right.

Of the smaller guys Marion Wilson appears to have amazing durability.

How did manage to go 60 plus fights without getting stopped

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 May 2026, 20:38 Bowe wasn't dropped often. I believe only Holyfield and Golota had him on the deck. Vitali was never dropped, but didn't really face many especially dangerous hitters.

Took some big shots off Sanders as well as that uppercut off Lewis. Although Sanders should properly have been scored a knockdown early on.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑01 May 2026, 11:14

gilgamesh wrote: ↑01 May 2026, 07:01

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2026, 12:49 Sure but I was rating in terms of accomplishments. The 90s heavyweights benefit in terms of having better training methods and steroids in addition to being much bigger on average.

Plenty of female athletes today have better times than the best male athletes from the 1940s. That doesn't mean that todays women are inherently better athletes than the men of the past.

Better times at what? The Best Female Boxer there ever was isn't as good as a Regional Amateur Champion.

I think swimming and running for one. I think there are women that can outrun Jim Thorpe

- Drinkin' ain't thinkin', but maybe a testa shot needed for flagging physiology.

To Topic, George and Mike agreed to a record purse put up by China to fight there, something like $21Mil apiece at Tiananmen Square before the Douglas fight was ever proposed. DKing hadn't yet got his claws into Mike who after losing Cus and Jacobs and eventually Rooney from his HOF team still had Bill Clayton.

Do I need to recite the disaster of Tiananmen Square that prompted the US State Department to forbid flights to China followed by a host of other countries?

>>>> and King got a contract for Buster Douglas in Japan that Tyson jumped on that effectively eliminated Clayton.

Now, do I have to repeat for the umpteenth time that the reports out of Japan where the fight was to be held were so disturbing for Tyson such that all the major gaming houses refused to set odds?

I could go on, but really, to close this sordid chapter, yeah, much later King tried to make the Foreman fight, but Tyson by then had stabilized on his suite of psychotropic medications and knew what Foreman represented and nixed the deal.

Most of Charles kayo losses were when he was shot. I don't think he had much in the way of durability problems in his prime especially given he was usually the smaller man fighting bigger guys.