BoxRec

Il Duce wrote:Mr. G,

I do not consider you a 'Goof-Ball'.

You have a passion for Cassius Clay, and are a defender of Muhammad Ali, but you are far from 'Crazy'.

On the other hand, there are some 'Midget-Minded Freaks' that would get in a car with Giancarlo and
''Toonces the Cat' and drive anywhere to defend Muhammad Ali.

gilgamesh wrote:Sorry the pic is so big, but I couldn't find any other sizes of it. You all know the old saying "A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words?"

This picture has been worth entire conversations a few times for me.

It's the one image that best captures the intense and bitter rivalry between the two in my view.

BoxBuzz wrote:Frazier took the best to task, and relentlessly beat him at his own game on his own terms.

This may not make you the best, but what it does make you, is one of a kind.

IF he would have just left the game, I suspect boxing history would have as much difficulty attempting to figure Frazier out, as they did Marciano. And though Ali might have gone on to have an illustrious career, he would always remain in Frazier's shadow. And much would be different.

Sometimes history is happenstance.

Joe's mistake was his decision to keep climbing a mountain that he had already planted a flag on top of. People don't forgive you for that for some reason.

I'm quite at ease with the way it came out, but I could easily live in that alternate history as well.

Both men were distinct and remarkable.

BoxBuzz wrote:Frazier took the best to task, and relentlessly beat him at his own game on his own terms.

This may not make you the best, but what it does make you, is one of a kind.

IF he would have just left the game, I suspect boxing history would have as much difficulty attempting to figure Frazier out, as they did Marciano. And though Ali might have gone on to have an illustrious career, he would always remain in Frazier's shadow. And much would be different.

Sometimes history is happenstance.

Joe's mistake was his decision to keep climbing a mountain that he had already planted a flag on top of. People don't forgive you for that for some reason.

I'm quite at ease with the way it came out, but I could easily live in that alternate history as well.

Both men were distinct and remarkable.

Il Duce wrote:Box Buzz,

Again with an over analytical response,,,,,,,,,

Please just say it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Joe Frazier won 'The Fight of the Century'.

Il Duce wrote:Mr. G,

I do not consider you a 'Goof-Ball'.

You have a passion for Cassius Clay, and are a defender of Muhammad Ali, but you are far from 'Crazy'.

On the other hand, there are some 'Midget-Minded Freaks' that would get in a car with Giancarlo and
''Toonces the Cat' and drive anywhere to defend Muhammad Ali.

yancey wrote: Poor Giancarlo is 100% pure goofball.

Il Duce wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:

yancey wrote: Poor Giancarlo is 100% pure goofball.

That's coming from a 70 year old 'man' with an unhealthy interest in Smokin' Joe.

I bet he could kick your ass with an "I Am The Greatest" Record Album in his right hand.

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:BoxRec should have an alternate history forum for Il Duce.

[/bYes, with me posting wonderful thoughts, and you following right behind.]

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."


-John Adams,

Mr. That One, did you come up with 'That One' yourself......

BoxBuzz wrote:Do you point this out because you feel that young Cassius should have been more sensitive to those of us who share a Caucasian heritage? As I recall there was quite a social discussion going on back then, and he was part of group that was addressing some historic inequality. As I recall, people were not acting overly diplomatic on both sides of the discussion. Some were downright rude to others, and some were not overly impressed with the delicate and fragile ways of the peace makers of the time.

Trash talk was common, and we as a society were learning not to kill people for brandishing bold opinions in public. Or sitting on the wrong place on the bus.

However in a less civil time there was some consequence for trash talking...sometimes perfectly innocent humans were sacrificed in very inhumane ways for simply attempting to be treated as equals. This is a very powerful subject, and sometimes many of us went over the top with our passion. Were you a a part of this discussion? Please disregard this question it's much too personal.

But I suggest an entrée of forgiveness for such boldly expressed opinions during that time in our history. After all in an earlier time, the expressions were not simply verbal. And boldness often manifested in death making.

My simple point...consider forgiveness as it is often the best answer.

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."


-John Adams,

Mr. That One, did you come up with 'That One' yourself......

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."