BoxRec

Ernie Schaaf Dec Lee Savold
Tommy Burns KO Bob Cleroux
Fred Fulton KO Luther McCarty
James J. Braddock Dec Lou Nova
Rex Layne Dec Ruslan Chagaev
Jack Sharkey WDQ Andrew Golota
Max Baer KO Mike DeJohn
Bob Fitzsimmons TKO Jerry Quarry
Jack Dempsey Dec Max Schmeling
James J. Jeffries KO Billy Conn

Schaaf KO11 Savold
Burns KO8 Cleroux
Fulton Dec McCarty
Braddock Dec Nova
Layne Dec Chagaev
Sharkey Dec Golota (Literally anyhing could happen, including a DQ)
Baer KO5 DeJohn
Fitzsimmons KO8 Quarry
Dempsey KO 2 Schmeling
Jeffries KO9 Conn

4-0 Schaaf, 2-2 EVEN Cleroux & Burns (I pick Burns making it 3-2), 3-1 Fulton, 2-2 EVEN Braddock & Nova (I pick Braddock, making it 3-2), 4-0 Layne, 4-0 Sharkey, 4-0 Baer, 3-1 Fitzsimmons, 4-0 Dempsey, and 3-1 Jeffries

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The Tenth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

John L. Sullivan vs. Henry Cooper

George Chuvalo vs. Jack Sharkey

Duane Bobick vs. Gerry Cooney- who's 0 is gonna go?

Corrie Sanders vs. Gerrie Coetzee- who is South Africa's best?

Ernie Schaaf vs. Fred Fulton

James J. Jeffries vs. Roland LaStarza

Rex Layne vs. Max Baer- will midnight strike on Layne's Cinderella story in the tournament?

James J. Braddock vs. Brian London

Rocky Marciano vs. Gene Tunney

Tommy Burns vs. Bob Fitzsimmons- the two smallest in the field!

Ingemar Johansson vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Vitali Klitschko vs. Jack Dempsey- Can The Giant Killer do the impossible and drop/stop Vitali?



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The total number of combatants left:

Sullivan, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Burns, Braddock, Baer, Dempsey, Schaaf, Bobick, Cooney, Coetzee, The Klitschko Brothers, Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, Rocky Marciano, Ingemar Johansson, Jack Sharkey, Fred Fulton, Tunney, Sanders, Cooper, Chuvalo, London.... can you really believe this is the finalists?

The Tenth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

John L. Sullivan vs. Henry Cooper

George Chuvalo vs. Jack Sharkey

Duane Bobick vs. Gerry Cooney- who's 0 is gonna go?

Corrie Sanders vs. Gerrie Coetzee- who is South Africa's best?

Ernie Schaaf vs. Fred Fulton

James J. Jeffries vs. Roland LaStarza

Rex Layne vs. Max Baer- will midnight strike on Layne's Cinderella story in the tournament?

James J. Braddock vs. Brian London

Rocky Marciano vs. Gene Tunney

Tommy Burns vs. Bob Fitzsimmons- the two smallest in the field!

Ingemar Johansson vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Vitali Klitschko vs. Jack Dempsey- Can The Giant Killer do the impossible and drop/stop Vitali?

HomicideHenry wrote:4-0 Schaaf, 2-2 EVEN Cleroux & Burns (I pick Burns making it 3-2), 3-1 Fulton, 2-2 EVEN Braddock & Nova (I pick Braddock, making it 3-2), 4-0 Layne, 4-0 Sharkey, 4-0 Baer, 3-1 Fitzsimmons, 4-0 Dempsey, and 3-1 Jeffries

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The Tenth Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

John L. Sullivan vs. Henry Cooper

George Chuvalo vs. Jack Sharkey

Duane Bobick vs. Gerry Cooney- who's 0 is gonna go?

Corrie Sanders vs. Gerrie Coetzee- who is South Africa's best?

Ernie Schaaf vs. Fred Fulton

James J. Jeffries vs. Roland LaStarza

Rex Layne vs. Max Baer- will midnight strike on Layne's Cinderella story in the tournament?

James J. Braddock vs. Brian London

Rocky Marciano vs. Gene Tunney

Tommy Burns vs. Bob Fitzsimmons- the two smallest in the field!

Ingemar Johansson vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Vitali Klitschko vs. Jack Dempsey- Can The Giant Killer do the impossible and drop/stop Vitali?



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The total number of combatants left:

Sullivan, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Burns, Braddock, Baer, Dempsey, Schaaf, Bobick, Cooney, Coetzee, The Klitschko Brothers, Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, Rocky Marciano, Ingemar Johansson, Jack Sharkey, Fred Fulton, Tunney, Sanders, Cooper, Chuvalo, London.... can you really believe this is the finalists?

Well sure I can believe it. You gave guys like Bobick, Cooney, Sanders, London, and Cooper easy opponents so they are still in it. Better fighters have had tougher competition and are already out. For example, Corbett had to take on Marciano so he is already out.

John L. Sullivan KO Henry Cooper
Jack Sharkey Dec George Chuvalo
Gerry Cooney KO Duane Bobick
Gerrie Coetzee KO Corrie Sanders
Fred Fulton Dec Ernie Schaaf
James J. Jeffries Dec Roland LaStarza
Max Baer KO Rex Layne
James J. Braddock Dec Brian London
Gene Tunney Dec Rocky Marciano
Bob Fitzsimmons KO Tommy Burns
Wladimir Klitschko TKO Ingemar Johansson
Jack Dempsey Dec Vitali Klitschko

Sullivan KO5 Cooper
Sharkey Dec Chuvalo
Cooney KO1 Bobick
Coetzee KO 11 Sanders
Schaaf Dec Fulton
Jeffries KO 10 La Starza
Baer KO 6 Layne
Braddock Dec London
Tunney Dec Marciano (Too bad this fight had to happen so early)
Fitzsimmons KO 7 Burns
W. Klitschko KO 4 Johansson
Dempsey KO 3 Klitschko

Sullivan TKO3 Cooper

Sharkey UD Chuvalo

Cooney KO 4 Bobick

Coatzee KO 7 Sanders

Fulton TKO 10 Schaff

Jefferies TKO 9 LaStarza

Baer KO 8 Layne

Braddock UD London

Tunney SD Marciano (upset special)

Fitz UD Burns

Johannson KO3 Klitschko

Dempsey UD Klitschko

Ambling Alp II wrote:
Well sure I can believe it. You gave guys like Bobick, Cooney, Sanders, London, and Cooper easy opponents so they are still in it. Better fighters have had tougher competition and are already out. For example, Corbett had to take on Marciano so he is already out.

Well, in fairness, I never would of expected personally anyone to pick Bobick to defeat someone like Alexander Povetkin who actually won an alphabet strap, over a guy who was blown out in one round against Ken Norton. Or really, would of thought someone would of picked Cooney to beat Morrison when Morrison won an alphabet title and beat some guys in their primes, when Cooney never really beat anyone of consequence. As for London and Cooper, maybe I am at fault--- but I think with Sanders, it's possible some rose colored glasses were in play there, because he's another one who was inconsistant in real-life, yet been beating people right and left in the tourney regardless who he fought. As for Corbett--- I suppose it was my fault matching him tough; or matching others tough early, etc. However, I've said it all along--- when it comes down to the final four or so, I cant imagine it being that much different than who everyone would assume would be there.

My selections for this round (voting is still open for four and one half hours):

Sullivan KO 5th Cooper

Sharkey W15 Chuvalo

Baer KO 5th Layne

Cooney KO 5th Bobick

Braddock TKO 10 London

Marciano UD 15 Tunney

Fitzsimmons UD 15 Burns

Fulton UD 15 Schaaf

Wladimir Klitschko KO 8 Johansson

Dempsey UD 15 V. Klitschko

Coetzee KO 10 Sanders

Jeffries KO 11 LaStarza

Making the tallies altogether (so far):

4-0 Sullivan, Sharkey, Cooney, Coetzee, Jeffries, Baer, Braddock, Dempsey, Fitzsimmons

3-1 Wladimir Klitschko, Gene Tunney, Fulton

Sullivan TKO8
Chuvalo SD Sharkey
Baer KO1 Layne
Cooney KO2 Bobick(clearly Cooney has a friend doing the brackets)
Braddock UD London
Tunney UD Marciano
Fitzsimmons TKO13 Burns
Schaaf UD Fulton
Johansson KO3 Wlad
Dempsey TKO6 Vitali
Coetzee KO4 Sanders
Jeffries UD LaStarza

Did you count your votes or did you notice scartissue's votes?

5 people voted so there cannot be "3-1" and "4-0".
Now, with SaadOffTheDeck's votes there are 6 people.

Duch wrote:Did you count your votes or did you notice scartissue's votes?

5 people voted so there cannot be "3-1" and "4-0".
Now, with SaadOffTheDeck's votes there are 6 people.

Re-configuration of the votes.... (I did miss Scartissue's votes, my apologies)

Sullivan- 6-0

Sharkey- 5-1

Baer- 6-0

Cooney- 6-0

Braddock- 6-0

Tunney- 4-2 (UPSET OF ALL UPSETS)

Fitzsimmons- 6-0

Schaaf/Fulton- 3-3 EVEN (these two move on to the next round)

W. Klitschko- 4-2

Dempsey- 6-0

Jeffries- 5-1

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Am blown away by how odd some of the tournament rounds have gone, especially with Rocky Marciano losing to essentially a part-time heavyweight in Gene Tunney--- when the tournament ends, we will have to reconfigure Marciano's worth (he did after all defeat Corbett who was 2-0 in the tourney)--- however, it is what it is--- and as for Saad's remarks about Cooney having a friend doing the brackets, let me make one thing clear: A) I didnt expect Bobick to make it this far, B) I never expected Cooney to make it this far either, C) when two men in the tourney have a win streak of 4-0 or 5-0, its a natural to match them up. Besides, isnt it better to match the two "best" white hopes of the past thirty-forty years together and end the charade once and for all?

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The Eleventh Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:


John L. Sullivan vs. Fred Fulton

James J. Braddock vs. Ernie Schaaf

Gerry Cooney vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Gene Tunney vs. James J. Jeffries

Max Baer vs. Jack Dempsey

Bob Fitzsimmons vs. Jack Sharkey


Voting begins now and goes on for 24 hours, have at it gentlemen!

Analysis of the Tournament:

Debutant Losers in The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament-

Alfio Righetti, David Price, Scott LeDoux, Chuck Wepner, Johnny Risko, Pierre Coetzer, Marvin Hart, Kevin McBride, Nicolai Valuev, Tony Galento, Buddy Baer, Tyson Fury, LaMar Clark, Johnny DuPlooy, Tommy Morrison, Georges Carpentier, Tomasz Adamek, Tom McNeeley, Peter McNeeley, Gunboat Smith, Bruce Woodcock, Lucas Browne, Ron Stander, Robert Helenius, Oleg Maskaev, Albert Sosnowski, Carl Morris, Ben Foord, Lou Savarese, Scott Frank, Tommy Farr, Sergai Liakovich, Sultan Ibragimov, Pat McMurty, Willie Meehan, Richard Dunne, Jack Boddell, Kid McCoy, Alexander Povetkin, Jack Root, Zeljko Mavrovic, Buddy Knox, Frank Moran, Al Kaufman, Axel Schulz, Fireman Jim Flynn, Frans Botha, Jess Willard, Max Schmeling, Ingemar Johansson, Joe Bugner, Charley Norkus, Crawford Grimsley, Pat Velntino, Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Choynski, Jimmy Maloney, and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien.

The Eleventh Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:


John L. Sullivan vs. Fred Fulton - Sullivan KO9 over Fulton. Fred could hit but the chin was never too sturdy. Sullivan could taste canvas here too, but the young Sully takes it.

James J. Braddock vs. Ernie Schaaf - Schaaf W15 over Braddock. They actually did fight as I'm sure you all know and I don't see a different outcome.

Gerry Cooney vs. Wladimir Klitschko - Cooney KO6 over Wlad. Cooney's jab makes the difference while the fireworks are flying.

Gene Tunney vs. James J. Jeffries - Tunney W15 over Jeff - Tunney's brilliant boxing and steady game plan takes a comfortable win.

Max Baer vs. Jack Dempsey - Dempsey KO10 over Max in a pure war where both men are down.

Bob Fitzsimmons vs. Jack Sharkey - Sharkey KO10 over Fitz. Jack never had a great KO wallop but was adept at using every bit of his 200 lb. frame in his furious attacks. I see him wearing down the 167 lb. man by the 10th.

Sullivan KO 4 Fulton
Schaaf Dec Braddock (Since that is what happened in real life)
Cooney KO 2 Klitschko (I had to pick someone)
Tunney Dec Jeffries (Too bad this had to happen so early)
Dempsey KO 4 Baer
Fitzsimmons KO 7 Sharkey

The Eleventh Round of The Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:


Sullivan KO 6 Fulton (I'm perhaps giving the legend of John L some leverage here, but I'll take the old timers' word that Sullivan's offensive skills were significant and Fred's chin was less than concrete)

Schaff UD Braddock

Klitschko KO 3 Cooney (I think Wlad may survive a scare early but I see his greater professionalism, composure, and notably defense winning the day here)

Jefferies TKO 9 Tunney (Jefferies knocked out the Tunney of his day in Corbett; don't see a different result here with the naturally smaller Marine)

Dempsey KO10 Baer (It'd be competitive in the early going but Dempsey takes over in the late round with his greater cleverness and speed)

Sharkey UD Fitzimmons (Sharkey was as clever as Bob and is the bigger man)

Sullivan, 3-0

Schaaf, 3-0

Cooney, 3-0

Tunney, 2-1

Dempsey, 3-0

Sharkey, 2-1

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Personally I favor Sullivan via KO, Braddock SD, Klitschko UD, Jeffries UD, Dempsey KO, and Fitzsimmons KO---- add 1 to each--- making Tunney/Jeffries and Sharkey/Fitzsimmons a DRAW; Schaaf, Sullivan, Dempsey, Cooney still ahead in the margins; voting still open late into tomorrow.

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Title question: The Best White Heavyweight of All Time

My answer: Rocky Marciano.

HomicideHenry wrote:Sullivan, 3-0

Schaaf, 3-0

Cooney, 3-0

Tunney, 2-1

Dempsey, 3-0

Sharkey, 2-1

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Personally I favor Sullivan via KO, Braddock SD, Klitschko UD, Jeffries UD, Dempsey KO, and Fitzsimmons KO---- add 1 to each--- making Tunney/Jeffries and Sharkey/Fitzsimmons a DRAW; Schaaf, Sullivan, Dempsey, Cooney still ahead in the margins; voting still open late into tomorrow.

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Dempseyfire picked Wlad over Cooney, so that's a 2-2.

Fulton KO11 Sullivan
Schaaf UD Braddock
Wlad UD Cooney( Ok Hank, whatever you say. )
Jeffries UD
Dempsey UD
Sharkey UD

I'm just messing with you, but you Cooney fans are an amazing bunch.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm just messing with you, but you Cooney fans are an amazing bunch.

Saad, everyone sees something different in a fight. For instance, I thought stylistically, the Tunney-Jeffries matchup was a slam-dunk for Gene. Over 15 rounds i could envision a 14-1 scoreline. However, it looks as if Jeff will progress. I have no idea how anyone can come up with a Jeff win unless they're picking him on legend. Has anyone actually watched his prime fight against Gus Ruhlin? No one wants to say it - besmirching the legend and all - but he was woeful. His legend was built on taking gobs of punishment and outlasting the opponent. Over 15 rounds in the modern era, Corbett would have regained his title and the rematch with Fitz would have been stopped in favor of Bob on cuts. So what I'm saying in reference to your Wlad/Cooney analogy, I guess we all see things different.

Very true, and I pick fights wrong on a weekly basis so these would be no different. When it comes to Gerry, I just don't get it. There was a time when he was treated by many as a complete oaf and was a bit underrated. That pendulum has swung drastically over time, now the most common statement about him is that he's underrated and that is an oxymoron.

scartissue wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm just messing with you, but you Cooney fans are an amazing bunch.

Saad, everyone sees something different in a fight. For instance, I thought stylistically, the Tunney-Jeffries matchup was a slam-dunk for Gene. Over 15 rounds i could envision a 14-1 scoreline. However, it looks as if Jeff will progress. I have no idea how anyone can come up with a Jeff win unless they're picking him on legend. Has anyone actually watched his prime fight against Gus Ruhlin? No one wants to say it - besmirching the legend and all - but he was woeful. His legend was built on taking gobs of punishment and outlasting the opponent. Over 15 rounds in the modern era, Corbett would have regained his title and the rematch with Fitz would have been stopped in favor of Bob on cuts. So what I'm saying in reference to your Wlad/Cooney analogy, I guess we all see things different.

You must be joking; what is woeful is the quality of the Jefferies-Ruhlin film. That could gauge an entire fighter's worth on what is mostly grainy fuzziness is crazy. One can see from the commentary of the time along with the MUCH higher quality footage of him in training to see Jim was an incredibly athletic big man who carried speed and skills along with his power/strength. That he was just an old time Chuvalo who soaked up punishment is just inaccurate. If that was all it took in that era to become champion Sandy Ferguson would've reigned for years.