BoxRec

Haymon works with other matchmakers too. But I'm glad that walter5 is so concerned about Jordan having to wait a few months for a TV fight.

How was it when Jordan met Al Haymon? Must have been surreal, eh?

walter5 wrote:So they shouldn't have a problem taking a back seat to a kid who has plenty of time to develop?

No idea what you mean. Who's taking a backseat?

Watch him get on TV twice and just enjoy it?

Again don't know what exactly your referencing.

Yeah, Jordan fought in December, but by the time a fight is scheduled they're looking possibly at a 5 month layoff. If you saw Jordan's last fight you'd realize he didn't need that long. That's the problem. Al Haymon has no idea what happened in that last fight.

The kid had 18 fights in his first 30 months as a pro. Maybe he wanted 10 weeks off (the extent of his layoff as of today) before he decided on his next opponent. Maybe he gots a lingering injury he's letting heal. Maybe he wanted Christmas & the holidays off & getting back into the flow of things now. There are a billion reasons a guy doesn't fight for 2.5 months. Its not a big deal, in particular in a young guys career.

Idk why it'll take another 2.5mos to get a fight. Jordan isn't at that stage where he'll need to build up a fight. He could get a fight tomorrow for the middle or end of March. Happens all the time.

Is that how prospects are built?

Not fighting for 10wks is pretty common for prospects. Hell Frank Gomez & Hughie Fury had LONG layoffs. Theres a ton of prospects that have had way longer layoffs than 10 wks & counting. Hell Brad Solomon has probably had his career ruined by layoffs. Jordan isn't anywhere near those sorta guys. The sky isn't falling bruh. And if it is you're still wearing a tin foil hat today based on the "evidence" you are presenting.

Waiting and toeing the company line on the boxrec forum?

I'm way more neutral on Al Haymon than many here thats for sure. The sketchy sh!t about Al is the Lamon Brewster situation from aways back & the seemingly attempt at a hostile takeover of GBP that failed. Its got nothing to do with Jordan.

170 plus fighters and how many quality matchmakers working to develop them? I count two. Johnny B and Tom Brown. There's the problem.

No clue what you are getting on about here. "There's the problem", whats the problem exactly?

Reggie - you make some good points. I will add a few more. Lubin is an 8 round boxer right now so there are more spots available. He is also ranked much lower in his weight class than Jordan is in his so there are more viable opponents. Jordan has about 20 good opponents who might be available to fight him. Then narrow it down by TV worthy ones and guys ready and willing to fight Jordan and the list gets smaller. It's not quite as easy to put together a 10 round TV fight for Jordan that will advance his career.

I don't have a problem with Jordan's opposition so far and I think some people have been fairly tough on him. I believe it's important to consider that while he's had 18 fights he did that over only about 2.5 years, a period in which many eventual top fighters compete significantly less and don't beat anyone of note. I believe it's about time for a step-up, but I don't think it's long overdue and I like his activity.

crusader wrote:I don't have a problem with Jordan's opposition so far and I think some people have been fairly tough on him. I believe it's important to consider that while he's had 18 fights he did that over only about 2.5 years, a period in which many eventual top fighters compete significantly less and don't beat anyone of note. I believe it's about time for a step-up, but I don't think it's long overdue and I like his activity.

I agree. Jordan was moved more quickly than most, but not as quickly as a few who are signed with a manager or promoter with connections right from the start. His pace has been fine with us.

Dennis wrote:Reggie - you make some good points. I will add a few more. Lubin is an 8 round boxer right now so there are more spots available. He is also ranked much lower in his weight class than Jordan is in his so there are more viable opponents. Jordan has about 20 good opponents who might be available to fight him. Then narrow it down by TV worthy ones and guys ready and willing to fight Jordan and the list gets smaller. It's not quite as easy to put together a 10 round TV fight for Jordan that will advance his career.

I wasn't even comparing Jordan & Erikson cuz thats an apples & oranges situation to me.

All the rumored purses seem to be suggesting the money for these PBC fights is nice so I'd assume the money for Jordan opponents will be equally nice & with all the TV dates available that sweetens the pot even more. I don't think Jordan is gonna have any trouble finding opponents. If nothing else he gots a lot of off-tv bouts on tv undercards if he can't get a tv level opponent. Should be a fun 2015 for you guys.

I also think it will be a fun 2015.

Some commenters have questioned Jordan's competition so I checked on some other top cruiserweights' competition in their first 18 bouts. The winning percentage of their first 18 opponents combined records is as follows:
Grigory Drozd-current WBC champ-52%
Yoan Pablo Hernandez-current IBF champ and Olympian-60%
Marco Huck-current WBO champ-64%
Denis Lebedev-current WBA champ-54%
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk-former WBC champ-45%
Firat Arslan-former world champ-43%
Krzysztof Glowacki-current top 25 ranked contender-48%
Jordan Shimmell-57%.
Yes there are some others with higher %'s because of moving very quickly like Usyk but there are also many who have worse %'s because of moving very slowly.

Here are some more combined winning percentages for the first 18 opponents of other top cruiserweights:
Lukas Janik-44%
Mateusz Masternak-45%
Yunier Dorticos-54%
Murat Gassiev-45%

Here are the combined winning percentages for the first 18 opponents for five more top cruiserweights:
Rakhim Chakhkiev-Olympic Gold Medalist-62%
BJ Flores-52%
Tony Bellew-42%
Nathan Cleverly-46%
Pawel Kolodziej-29%

Dennis wrote:

crusader wrote:I don't have a problem with Jordan's opposition so far and I think some people have been fairly tough on him. I believe it's important to consider that while he's had 18 fights he did that over only about 2.5 years, a period in which many eventual top fighters compete significantly less and don't beat anyone of note. I believe it's about time for a step-up, but I don't think it's long overdue and I like his activity.

I agree. Jordan was moved more quickly than most, but not as quickly as a few who are signed with a manager or promoter with connections right from the start. His pace has been fine with us.

Jordan has had a solid pace on his way up imo. He learns more fighting against vets who have been in the ring with some of the best than fighting against unknown guys with similar number of fights. I saw Jordan get good work in with Joell Godfrey in Vegas and he did exactly what he was supposed to do. IMO, staying busy is the important part and with the opposition improving, its hard to expect him to fight 5-6 times a year like he had been. However I think a good 3-4 fights should be in line with opponents like Venroy July, Eric Fields, and Francisco Palacios should lead to a title shot in 2016.

Dennis wrote:Some commenters have questioned Jordan's competition so I checked on some other top cruiserweights' competition in their first 18 bouts. The winning percentage of their first 18 opponents combined records is as follows:
Grigory Drozd-current WBC champ-52%
Yoan Pablo Hernandez-current IBF champ and Olympian-60%
Marco Huck-current WBO champ-64%
Denis Lebedev-current WBA champ-54%
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk-former WBC champ-45%
Firat Arslan-former world champ-43%
Krzysztof Glowacki-current top 25 ranked contender-48%
Jordan Shimmell-57%.
Yes there are some others with higher %'s because of moving very quickly like Usyk but there are also many who have worse %'s because of moving very slowly.

You don't think Jordan's numbers are skewed with the likes of JJ Corn and Damon McCreary on the list? Actually fights 10-15 of Jordan's career (that make up the majority of his opponents wins) are hard to compare to the top European guys as they're not loading up on Midwest talent.

walter5 wrote:You don't think Jordan's numbers are skewed with the likes of JJ Corn and Damon McCreary on the list? Actually fights 10-15 of Jordan's career (that make up the majority of his opponents wins) are hard to compare to the top European guys as they're not loading up on Midwest talent.

No they feast on built up European guys. Plus some of the guys I listed have a common opponent or two with Jordan.

Grigory Drozd & Pawel Kolodziej both padded their records by fighting Rob Calloway at the end of his career when he had an approximate record of 70-10.

There's a big difference between Rob Calloway and opponents 10-15 on Jordan's list. Their fights showed that.

Shumenov, Flores, Dorticos, Palacios, Chakhkiev, Usyk and Jordan all fought Epifanio Mendoza.

Yeah, nobody brought up Mendoza. I'm talking fights 10-15 padding the record.

If we are talking quality of opposition, champ Drozd for bouts 10-15 had a debut, 16-16, 3-2-1, 0-2-1, 3-3-1 & 5-5.

Former champ Firat Arslan for bouts 10-15 fought 7-10, 22-43-3, 13-21-6, 36-53-7, then had two consecutive losses to a 1-1-2 guy & a 30-1 guy.

Champ Denis Lebedev for bouts 10-15 fought 14-6, 2-0, 4-4-1, 4-13-1, 8-2, & 6-19-4. The win against the 4-13-1 guy was for the vacant Russian Lt Hvy title!

I don't care what the guy in the other corners record is so long as your learning in the ring.

Records are decieving, statistics can be misleading.

So long as Jordan is taking something from each of his fights, and moving a little closer to the end goal each time i have no problem.

I would like to see him get a test in against our Ovil Mckenzie though, survive the first few few rounds with the upsetter and theres plenty learnt!

Yes We Can wrote:I don't care what the guy in the other corners record is so long as your learning in the ring.

Records are decieving, statistics can be misleading.

So long as Jordan is taking something from each of his fights, and moving a little closer to the end goal each time i have no problem.

I would like to see him get a test in against our Ovil Mckenzie though, survive the first few few rounds with the upsetter and theres plenty learnt!

Correct. Jordan will get a step up in his next fight and then another in his next fight. I highly doubt that it will be McKenzie since he fights in Europe, but somebody else that will make for a good TV fight for fans.

Former champ Wlodarczyk for bouts #10-15 fought 4-7, 0-4, 20-0-1, 2-0, 6-12 & 11-5 guys.
I just dont see where Walter5 is coming from. He seems to have a real issue with Jordan and/or me. Maybe Jordan beat one of his boxers or I represented a client who sued him and won.

Contender Bellew for bouts #10-15 fought 8-23-5, 16-6, 9-21-2, 4-1, 8-1 & 18-9 guys.