BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Not sure they are THAT far ahead.

there does seem to be this weird overestimation of the quality of the heavyweight division. Folk still actually believe the old 'linear improvement model' actually happens. Whereas in reality it's more, fight a ton of bums, tread water, maybe then a fringe contender, title shot. For pretty much everyone in recent years.

With this in mind you have to ask, when people are saying 'Joshua isn't ready' are they really just saying he needs a diet of 2 years of bums before he fights Fury? Because that's the model for heavyweight contenders these days.

The bottom line is this division is SHALLOW and Joshua can be thrown in with anyone at all right now. I'd pick him over the likes of Pulev any day. What 'top level experience' do these guys actually have that would realistically prepare them for Joshua? Most of them are bums. Teper? Browne? Fat slobs. Thankfully this level are going to get wiped out by the Joshuas, Wilders and Parkers soon to emerge.

Yes Fury exemplifies this, who on earth had he fought and beaten to suggest he'd live with Wlad?

The talent in the division is very thin indeed. Joshua, even a less than finished article version, is probably capable on a good night of beating pretty much anyone in the division, though you'd not necessarily make him favourite going in.

Although I have said he isn't ready for Fury that doesn't mean that Joshua isn't a very difficult night for anyone, even now.

Fury has showed how far a fighter can progress. You'd never have thought he could end up the recognised top man at Heavy if you tuned in to some of his earlier fights. I think Joshua has a pretty average, and thats being kind, training set up. I'd like to see him with a top trainer with a proven record of top level success. It's like sticking Micky Quinn as jockey on your prized racing horse. Against Whyte, when it was his first chance to do so, he completey neglected the jab for the most part, went headhunting and had zero headmovement. Too early to say about his conditioning as although he looked effed in the 2nd and 3rd, he recovered well. Maybe a case of constantly loading up to go along with the big shots he shipped?

Fury got dropped earlyish in his career by somebody below, and possibly way below, Whyte's level, but many always pointed to 'he got up and won'. Joshua didn't hit the canvas and he fought back well to win. The fight had a few positives and had a few negatives for him, which is what we were looking for. Now he just needs to address them, something I don't think his team will/can do. I think it will take a loss for him to seek out the elite trainers.

simonwalsh wrote:
Thing is, Joshua has fought bums so far (Whyte excluded, though it's debatable). Given he wobbled a little with Whyte, for me he needs to be able to get through the likes of those with ease before moving up. If that takes three fights, if it takes ten fights, whatever it takes to get undoubtedly ready for the top level.

AJ's got a very real chance of being a dominant force in the division for years and years to come. There's no point whatsoever in him now getting opponents outside say the consensus Top 25. For me though a few fights against those 15-25, handle them with ease, then we'll talk world titles.

Whyte knew what he was doing in there. He was solid and had some pop and skills. Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

Joshua would crush Malik Scott tomorrow. Boxrec have Malik fricken Scott in the top 10. That's the division we're dealing with here.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Not sure they are THAT far ahead.

there does seem to be this weird overestimation of the quality of the heavyweight division. Folk still actually believe the old 'linear improvement model' actually happens. Whereas in reality it's more, fight a ton of bums, tread water, maybe then a fringe contender, title shot. For pretty much everyone in recent years.

With this in mind you have to ask, when people are saying 'Joshua isn't ready' are they really just saying he needs a diet of 2 years of bums before he fights Fury? Because that's the model for heavyweight contenders these days.

The bottom line is this division is SHALLOW and Joshua can be thrown in with anyone at all right now. I'd pick him over the likes of Pulev any day. What 'top level experience' do these guys actually have that would realistically prepare them for Joshua? Most of them are bums. Teper? Browne? Fat slobs. Thankfully this level are going to get wiped out by the Joshuas, Wilders and Parkers soon to emerge.

Yup. It's hard to quantify Whyte at the moment but was he a better opponent than anyone Fury has ever fought (with the exception of Wlad)?

Fury's best wins minus Wlad i'd say are probably Chisora & Kevin Jonson. Joshua destroyed KJ & arguebly beat a better fighter in Whyte than the versions if Del Boy fury has faced.

The other "champion" Wilder has a horrible record of Tomato cans. I certainly don't see "levels" where Wilder is concerned, unless anyine thinks Joshua would struggle with a washed up 40 yr old Stiverne who nearly got KOd a few weeks back against Dereck Rossy in r1.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

simonwalsh wrote:
Thing is, Joshua has fought bums so far (Whyte excluded, though it's debatable). Given he wobbled a little with Whyte, for me he needs to be able to get through the likes of those with ease before moving up. If that takes three fights, if it takes ten fights, whatever it takes to get undoubtedly ready for the top level.

AJ's got a very real chance of being a dominant force in the division for years and years to come. There's no point whatsoever in him now getting opponents outside say the consensus Top 25. For me though a few fights against those 15-25, handle them with ease, then we'll talk world titles.

Whyte knew what he was doing in there. He was solid and had some pop and skills. Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

Joshua would crush Malik Scott tomorrow. Boxrec have Malik fricken Scott in the top 10. That's the division we're dealing with here.

Yeah Whyte was no bozo, he stepped inside of Joshua's range and used the jab well and took the fight to AJ - after that, he gradually got busted up by AJ's jab and power shots, and he gradually became less and less competitive, he then went out on his shield rather than run like a thief.

I'd be interested to see how far Whyte could go, if he got in better shape and worked on his all round skillset a bit. He's got a good chin, decent pop, and some good offensive work.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

By the same token I don't think taking Whyte seven rounds a world-title contender makes. Whyte probably could mix it with the likes of Teper, Glazkov etc. However, SJ had to endure some tough patches v Whyte. Iron those out in however many fights it takes against similar competition then look at the title holders.

simonwalsh wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

By the same token I don't think taking Whyte seven rounds a world-title contender makes. Whyte probably could mix it with the likes of Teper, Glazkov etc. However, SJ had to endure some tough patches v Whyte. Iron those out in however many fights it takes against similar competition then look at the title holders.

So you're saying there may not be much difference between the levels of Whyte and the Teper/Glazkov band, but Joshua is not allowed any rough patches against that level of opponent, even at this relatively early stage of his career?

Riddick Blowe wrote:

simonwalsh wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

By the same token I don't think taking Whyte seven rounds a world-title contender makes. Whyte probably could mix it with the likes of Teper, Glazkov etc. However, SJ had to endure some tough patches v Whyte. Iron those out in however many fights it takes against similar competition then look at the title holders.

So you're saying there may not be much difference between the levels of Whyte and the Teper/Glazkov band, but Joshua is not allowed any rough patches against that level of opponent, even at this relatively early stage of his career?

I'm saying he is allowed them, and because it is a very early stage of his career, learn how to handle them more comfortably and on a regular basis than be thrown to the top level off the back of one fight against one person from that level. If he's a quick learner, he'll be at that top level in no time at all. I'm sure AJ himself would agree he still has things to learn, and he will in more Whyte-esque tests, in the short-to-medium term anyway.

Blowe, what do you think is more intense, your AJ fandom or your Wlad enmity?

Ian1973 wrote:Joshua will never beat Fury.

That said there is more than one version of a world title and if Frank Bruno could pick one up (eventually) I'm sure Joshua can.

I predict he will become a world champion at some point but he won't become best in the division.

Didn't you say that Frampton would definitely beat Rigondeaux after the Avalos fight?

crusader wrote:Blowe, what do you think is more intense, your AJ fandom or your Wlad enmity?

Both burn hard within my loins! It is like selecting a favourite child!

crusader wrote:Blowe, what do you think is more intense, your AJ fandom or your Wlad enmity?

He's a very bitter man. He just can't handle the fact we were right all along about Fury. And he can reply in as long a paragraph as he likes, I'm not impressed by his rubbish. I bet he doesn't even go to fights.

mickey1975 wrote:

crusader wrote:Blowe, what do you think is more intense, your AJ fandom or your Wlad enmity?

He's a very bitter man. He just can't handle the fact we were right all along about Fury. And he can reply in as long a paragraph as he likes, I'm not impressed by his rubbish. I bet he doesn't even go to fights.

Who was right about Fury? I didn't see many people predicting he would be heavyweight champ and go all the way. HomicideHenry was one, but he's a nutjob. Congrats if you were among his company. Anyway, I'm not bothered about who was right all along. This is about who will be right when Fury and Joshua meet

Would be interesting to have a poll thread about future fight between Fury and Joshua. Let's see how people call it right now, and what they claim they thought would happen.

I for one think that by the time it happens, indeed, if it happens - Joshua will go right through Fury and dispose of him brutally.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Would be interesting to have a poll thread about future fight between Fury and Joshua. Let's see how people call it right now, and what they claim they thought would happen.

I for one think that by the time it happens, indeed, if it happens - Joshua will go right through Fury and dispose of him brutally.

Me too. Just in case there was any doubt.

The dislike of Tyson has got worse since he beat Wlad, in Germany! It's insane.

mickey1975 wrote:The dislike of Tyson has got worse since he beat Wlad, in Germany! It's insane.

I don't get it, my respect and admiration for him has gone through the roof, what he did is one of the biggest all time wins a UK fighter has achieved.

mickey1975 wrote:The dislike of Tyson has got worse since he beat Wlad, in Germany! It's insane.

I like him, and I loved that he beat Wlad. I just don't buy the notion that he is going to be champ for long.

Nightmare Roy wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:The dislike of Tyson has got worse since he beat Wlad, in Germany! It's insane.

I don't get it, my respect and admiration for him has gone through the roof, what he did is one of the biggest all time wins a UK fighter has achieved.

No, apparently Wlad was a bum all along! Tyson said this would happen.

For me it would have been less of a victory if he had of beaten him in the way Corrie Saunders did. He beat Vlad at his own game.

Coco wrote:For me it would have been less of a victory if he had of beaten him in the way Corrie Saunders did. He beat Vlad at his own game.

What's it matter? No one, myself included gave him a chance, he did the business in a one sided fight. He did great!

Nightmare Roy wrote:

Coco wrote:For me it would have been less of a victory if he had of beaten him in the way Corrie Saunders did. He beat Vlad at his own game.

What's it matter? No one, myself included gave him a chance, he did the business in a one sided fight. He did great!

My bad misread that.

Nightmare Roy wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:

Coco wrote:For me it would have been less of a victory if he had of beaten him in the way Corrie Saunders did. He beat Vlad at his own game.

What's it matter? No one, myself included gave him a chance, he did the business in a one sided fight. He did great!

My bad misread that.

mugabi wrote:

Ally-M1 wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:Reminds me too much of Bruno, always has and last night made it more so with his reaction to getting tagged. Sure he stayed up and won but that was the first real punch he has taken as a pro and it caused a real hot coal walking look about him.

I'm glad someone else sees some of the similarities between AJ and Bruno. I've been saying the same (to much faux disgust from my 'casual fan' friends).

Thats all ive been saying for a long time.

In a handful of very very early fights he was still lithe and mobile.his decision to bulk up has made him bruno mk 2 ,but he has less stamina,not near the same power, and therecmay be signs he cant figt going back and doesnt handle pressure well.

The reality though is the hw division in 2015 is far less talented,less akilled,less fast ,less powerful than in 1985 or 95 so he will be far more succesful

Fully agree. I feel very much the same.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

simonwalsh wrote:
Thing is, Joshua has fought bums so far (Whyte excluded, though it's debatable). Given he wobbled a little with Whyte, for me he needs to be able to get through the likes of those with ease before moving up. If that takes three fights, if it takes ten fights, whatever it takes to get undoubtedly ready for the top level.

AJ's got a very real chance of being a dominant force in the division for years and years to come. There's no point whatsoever in him now getting opponents outside say the consensus Top 25. For me though a few fights against those 15-25, handle them with ease, then we'll talk world titles.

Whyte knew what he was doing in there. He was solid and had some pop and skills. Who's to say Whyte can't mix it with the nondescript 'lower top 10' band of Tepers and Glazkovs? Who's to say they're any better, and why should Joshua taking Whyte 7 rounds be something AJ needs to improve upon?

Joshua would crush Malik Scott tomorrow. Boxrec have Malik fricken Scott in the top 10. That's the division we're dealing with here.

Yeah Whyte was no bozo, he stepped inside of Joshua's range and used the jab well and took the fight to AJ - after that, he gradually got busted up by AJ's jab and power shots, and he gradually became less and less competitive, he then went out on his shield rather than run like a thief.

I'd be interested to see how far Whyte could go, if he got in better shape and worked on his all round skillset a bit. He's got a good chin, decent pop, and some good offensive work.

I honestly think that Whyte deserves a lot more credit than he has received so far. I most certainly think he is someone who could mix it with the top 10, maybe the rung below the top fighters. He's shown he can take a heavy punch whilst dishing out a few of his own. His technique is a bit ragged and does look a little uncoordinated and unbalanced, but let's remind ourselves this guy is still young and in the early stages of his career too (16-1-0). He didn't need to take that fight against Joshua (and probably shouldn't have) but showed a lot of heart to take it.

That fight was very emotionally charged, and you have to take what happened with a pinch of salt. AJ had the red mist and turned it into a brawl which played into Whyte's hands. It took him until the third round to get behind his jab, and start boxing properly. You have to imagine that he'd cope a bit better against someone he doesn't have the history with. AJ doesn't look like the kind of person who gets dragged into trash talking, but obviously shown vulnerability against Whyte, but maybe that is something he needs to learn.

I think he's doing the right things and is more than qualified to take on better boxers in the division. The question is, what makes the top boxers think they have what it takes to take on AJ? Wilder has just knocked more bums out than AJ, does that qualify him? I mean how many genuine boxers are in the circuit that can hold a world title? Even Joseph Parker has only fought bums so far (took Parker 7 rounds to get through an ageing Brian Minto, whilst Whyte blew him away in 3). AJ will continue his progress, and there has been no suggestion by his management that he'll be rushed into the wrong fight. But if AJ fought Fury/Wilder in 2017, I wouldn't be concerned about AJ, expect him to come through with flying colours.