Tommy Hearns Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr

[Kalan]

[

Tommy is one of only a handful of fighters to have held Champions in 5 weight classes. Mayweather is among that handful as well, but the way he's being talked about in this thread by Kalan you'd think Tommy Hearns was some schmo, not a fighter that achieved something only a select few have. It's almost as if he don't know sh*t about Hearns

YOU don't know shitt about Hearns -- or pretend you don't -- claiming his KO losses to weak fighters like Barkley are irrelevant. As if the strength of his chin doesn't matter... You NEVER answered my question... WHY was Iran Barkley able to KO Tommy Hearns---and then LOSE his next 3 fights... and then fight a total tomato can who never knocked anyone out IN HIS LIFE, but floored Barkley hard and almost knocked him out... That's right, Juan Hernandez was 4-11 with ZERO KO victories -- but floored Iran Barkley and almost dispatched him.. The crowd booed the decision.. Also the promotion misrepresented Hernandez's record, claiming he had many wins and KO's.. I remember many promoters doing this back in the day to the point were the public didn't trust that any fight or representation was on the level.. That's why Boxing has problems right now in the US.

You also don't think it matters that Mayweather beat 3 Middleweight Champions and didn't lose to ANY -- and Hearns got knocked out by 3 Middleweight Champions.. Going up in weight has it's challenges, but if your ability is way superior to your opponent's it's not that big an issue..

Some people didn't expect Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz... Michael Spinks to beat Larry Holmes... Emile Griffith to beat Dick Tiger... Roberto Duran to beat Iran Barkley... James Toney to beat Vassily Jirov... Jose Napoles to beat Curtis Cokes... They were just better boxers... If Hearns was that great a boxer he wouldn't be getting hit so much -- especially not by anyone as unskilled as Barkley -- and he wouldn't suffer those KO losses.

I think you'll admit that Floyd was superbly skilled defensively and didn't sustain the hits or KO losses that Hearns suffered... And this fight being at 147 would be to Floyd's advantage because Hearns looked mighty weight Drained and weak against Leonard -- and of course got stopped.

[gilgamesh]

[

Tommy is one of only a handful of fighters to have held Champions in 5 weight classes. Mayweather is among that handful as well, but the way he's being talked about in this thread by Kalan you'd think Tommy Hearns was some schmo, not a fighter that achieved something only a select few have. It's almost as if he don't know sh*t about Hearns

YOU don't know shitt about Hearns -- or pretend you don't -- claiming his KO losses to weak fighters like Barkley are irrelevant. As if the strength of his chin doesn't matter... You NEVER answered my question... WHY was Iran Barkley able to KO Tommy Hearns---and then LOSE his next 3 fights... and then fight a total tomato can who never knocked anyone out IN HIS LIFE, but floored Barkley hard and almost knocked him out... That's right, Juan Hernandez was 4-11 with ZERO KO victories -- but floored Iran Barkley and almost dispatched him.. The crowd booed the decision.. Also the promotion misrepresented Hernandez's record, claiming he had many wins and KO's.. I remember many promoters doing this back in the day to the point were the public didn't trust that any fight or representation was on the level.. That's why Boxing has problems right now in the US.

Because he caught Tommy Hearns with a big shot. It happens. This is Boxing. There's been many a time that a guy who's nowhere near the level of his opponent has won with a perfectly placed shot.

If you weren't a kid, and actually studied the sport you'd know that.

If there's one old Boxing saying that you need to learn it's "Styles make Fights"

Floyd's style doesn't give Tommy's issues. Tommy's style is Floyd's nightmare.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Here's a quote from Kalan earlier in this thread, saying that Corrales was in his prime for the Floyd fight:

Leonard took on prime Welterweight Hearns -- then beat Tommy up and knocked him out... Leonard admitted Floyd would be tougher "Maybe my toughest fight and most people would say he would beat me." ... Also Corrales was prime... and Floyd was a lot older than Pacquiao, but beat him. So really you don't know what your talking about when you say Floyd didn't meet great fighters..

And here's a quote from Kalan from the thread What's Your Favourite Floyd Mayweather Fight:

No it wasn't... Corrales was weight drained and weaker than dandelion fluff... He couldn't have beaten anybody that night much less Floyd Mayweather

That's like saying Pacquiao was at his best for De La Hoya -- or Ward was brilliant versus Dawson... A weight drained opponent can't do crap!!

The guy is a joke or a drunk, or both.

[Counter-puncher]

Here's a quote from Kalan earlier in this thread, saying that Corrales was in his prime for the Floyd fight:

Leonard took on prime Welterweight Hearns -- then beat Tommy up and knocked him out... Leonard admitted Floyd would be tougher "Maybe my toughest fight and most people would say he would beat me." ... Also Corrales was prime... and Floyd was a lot older than Pacquiao, but beat him. So really you don't know what your talking about when you say Floyd didn't meet great fighters..

And here's a quote from Kalan from the thread What's Your Favourite Floyd Mayweather Fight:

No it wasn't... Corrales was weight drained and weaker than dandelion fluff... He couldn't have beaten anybody that night much less Floyd Mayweather

That's like saying Pacquiao was at his best for De La Hoya -- or Ward was brilliant versus Dawson... A weight drained opponent can't do crap!!

The guy is a joke or a drunk, or both.

[SenorPipino]

Kalan certainly is cranky these days.

Probably not taking his Metamucil.

But still, count me in as one who believes Mayweather derails Hearns.

If the unfocused, oft-times ill trained defensive master Wilfred Benitez could give Hearns a run for his money, then I figure Mayweather would get the win.

Floyd was never unfocused and always in tremendous condition. He would have had a game plan to deal with Hearns' reach advantage, closing the distance as the fight progressed and whacking away to the body.

Hearns never seemed like a guy who enjoyed going into deep waters. He'd overwhelm you quickly or lose steam as the fight got late.

Mayweather never lost steam. The late rounds, the championship rounds were Mayweather's rounds.

It would be the same in a matchup with Hearns, as Money charges down the stretch to take a close decision.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

One other point I would make is that Hatton was not in his prime for the Floyd fight. Yes he was prime age wise and undefeated but he was never a true welterweight and had struggled badly in his previous fight at the weight (Collazo). A fighter is in the their prime when they're at their absolute best and Hatton was not at his best at welterweight.

For the record, he wouldn't have beaten Floyd at 140 either but the point I'm making is that Hatton's name shouldn't be on the list of "prime fighters that Floyd beat".

Totally disagree. Floyd wasn't a massive welter like collazo. Ricky cut a lot of weight. That extra 7 helped him there.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Kalan certainly is cranky these days.

Probably not taking his Metamucil.

But still, count me in as one who believes Mayweather derails Hearns.

If the unfocused, oft-times ill trained defensive master Wilfred Benitez could give Hearns a run for his money, then I figure Mayweather would get the win.

Floyd was never unfocused and always in tremendous condition. He would have had a game plan to deal with Hearns' reach advantage, closing the distance as the fight progressed and whacking away to the body.

Hearns never seemed like a guy who enjoyed going into deep waters. He'd overwhelm you quickly or lose steam as the fight got late.

Mayweather never lost steam. The late rounds, the championship rounds were Mayweather's rounds.

It would be the same in a matchup with Hearns, as Money charges down the stretch to take a close decision.

Floyd never fought 15 rounds, not that I doubt he could. If hearns/Leonard 1 was a twelve rounder he would have sealed the win with a huge 12th round. He handled benitez pretty easily imo.

[Cojimar 1946]

Hearns consistently came up short in his biggest fights. I think the gap between Hearns and someone like Valero may be a lot less than some people think. We will never know how Valero would have done against guys like Pacquiao and Marquez but we do know that Hearns lost fights to his best contemporaries.

[Kalan]

[

Tommy is one of only a handful of fighters to have held Champions in 5 weight classes. Mayweather is among that handful as well, but the way he's being talked about in this thread by Kalan you'd think Tommy Hearns was some schmo, not a fighter that achieved something only a select few have. It's almost as if he don't know sh*t about Hearns

YOU don't know shitt about Hearns -- or pretend you don't -- claiming his KO losses to weak fighters like Barkley are irrelevant. As if the strength of his chin doesn't matter... You NEVER answered my question... WHY was Iran Barkley able to KO Tommy Hearns---and then LOSE his next 3 fights... and then fight a total tomato can who never knocked anyone out IN HIS LIFE, but floored Barkley hard and almost knocked him out... That's right, Juan Hernandez was 4-11 with ZERO KO victories -- but floored Iran Barkley and almost dispatched him.. The crowd booed the decision.. Also the promotion misrepresented Hernandez's record, claiming he had many wins and KO's.. I remember many promoters doing this back in the day to the point were the public didn't trust that any fight or representation was on the level.. That's why Boxing has problems right now in the US.

Because he caught Tommy Hearns with a big shot. It happens. This is Boxing

It sure is Boxing...meaning you have to defend punches coming at your head... Hearns failed to do that effectively against some of trickier throwers he faced...and some like Barkley who weren't that masterful, nailed him... Floyd would get good shots on him and defend well.

[ElJefe]

Stylistically Hearns is Floyd's worst nightmare. Incredibly long for the weight, good skills and scarily powerful. Hearns was only really beat by those who could match fire with fire. I don't think Mayweather was aggressive enough or hit hard enough at 147 to back Hearns up, and I don't see him winning on the back foot given that Tommy's size means he wouldn't have to swarm Mayweather and leave himself open for counters.

[gilgamesh]

Hearns consistently came up short in his biggest fights. I think the gap between Hearns and someone like Valero may be a lot less than some people think. We will never know how Valero would have done against guys like Pacquiao and Marquez but we do know that Hearns lost fights to his best contemporaries.

Trust me. The gap was ENORMOUS

Juan Manuel Marquez or someone like that would've absolutely destroyed Valero, and I hate it that we never got to see it to show you guys that that crude slugger sh*t he was bringing wasn't gonna cut it at the Elite level.

[Kalan]

Hearns consistently came up short in his biggest fights. I think the gap between Hearns and someone like Valero may be a lot less than some people think. We will never know how Valero would have done against guys like Pacquiao and Marquez but we do know that Hearns lost fights to his best contemporaries.

Trust me. The gap was ENORMOUS

Juan Manuel Marquez or someone like that would've absolutely destroyed Valero, and I hate it that we never got to see it to show you guys that that crude slugger sh*t he was bringing wasn't gonna cut it at the Elite level

Total Bullcrap... Marquez lost to Freddie Norwood and Chris John.. They lacked the speed, power, and skills of Valero, who went unbeaten and knocked out all his opponents.. He's the only famous 2-division World Champion in history to go unbeaten and win all his fights by KO.

[gilgamesh]

Total Bullcrap... Marquez lost to Freddie Norwood and Chris John.. They lacked the speed, power, and skills of Valero, who went unbeaten and knocked out all his opponents.. He's the only famous 2-division World Champion in history to go unbeaten and win all his fights by KO.

Norwood and Chris John would've been too good for Valero. Marquez still hadn't hit his peak yet when he lost to Norwood.

[IKSRTFO]

Hearns consistently came up short in his biggest fights. I think the gap between Hearns and someone like Valero may be a lot less than some people think. We will never know how Valero would have done against guys like Pacquiao and Marquez but we do know that Hearns lost fights to his best contemporaries.

We're comparing a likely top 50 boxer with Valreo who never fought anyone worth mentioning. Valero's best win was Demarco. Hearns best win is likely Duran.

[Kalan]

Yeah??? ... A Lightweight who he's fighting at Super Middleweight -- where Kirkland Laing also beat Duran??? ... That's his best WIN???

I like to compare their worst losses... Hearns getting hit smack on the chin by an inept swinger like Barkley who loses his next 3 fights.

Valero doesn't have any losses or draws -- only dominating KO wins.

[gilgamesh]

Yeah??? ... A Lightweight who he's fighting at Super Middleweight -- where Kirkland Laing also beat Duran??? ... That's his best WIN???

I like to compare their worst losses... Hearns getting hit smack on the chin by an inept swinger like Barkley who loses his next 3 fights.

Valero doesn't have any losses or draws -- only dominating KO wins.

Gawdy records mean more to you than actual skill, and noteworthy victories. If you think Valero is a better boxer than Hearns because he never lost I'm surprised somebody hasn't sold you a bridge because you're thinking on an awful simple level.

Valero's best wins came against middle of the road Top 10-ish kinda guys. Hearns fought the cream of the crop. The best his era had to offer. There's no comparison.

[Kalan]

You're endlessly full of bullcrap... Iran Barkley lost to Kalambay, Nunn, Benn, Toney, and about every good fighter he fought except for Tommy Hearns.. Tommy was a good fighter. I'm not saying he wasn't real good, rangy, and fast -- but he wasn't elite like Floyd.. Floyd had the package.

Hearns didn't have the package.. He didn't take a punch that well -- and he got tagged with shots that an elite boxer doesn't get hit with... If you're an elite boxer you don't get blasted out by a fighter the caliber of Barkley ... and he doesn't outpoint you in the rematch.

Floyd is elite because he never lost on points... never got knocked out... never got stopped, knocked on his ass, or knocked off his pins.

You're talking about a man who boxrec.com and many others considers the best fighter in the history of the sport... But at least he was probably the best fighter of the last generation... If Mayweather got upset by somebody like Iran Barkley nobody would rank him as the best ever.

I think people are trying to sidetrack the issue by bringing Valero into the picture.. Valero was a better boxer and puncher than many people give him credit for, but that's a subject for another thread.. This concerns the very hittable Hearns -- a guy who got pounded out.

[ElJefe]

You're endlessly full of bullcrap... Iran Barkley lost to Kalambay, Nunn, Benn, Toney, and about every good fighter he fought except for Tommy Hearns.. Tommy was a good fighter. I'm not saying he wasn't real good, rangy, and fast -- but he wasn't elite like Floyd.. Floyd had the package.

Hearns didn't have the package.. He didn't take a punch that well -- and he got tagged with shots that an elite boxer doesn't get hit with... If you're an elite boxer you don't get blasted out by a fighter the caliber of Barkley ... and he doesn't outpoint you in the rematch.

Floyd is elite because he never lost on points... never got knocked out... never got stopped, knocked on his ass, or knocked off his pins.

You're talking about a man who boxrec.com and many others considers the best fighter in the history of the sport... But at least he was probably the best fighter of the last generation... If Mayweather got upset by somebody like Iran Barkley nobody would rank him as the best ever.

I think people are trying to sidetrack the issue by bringing Valero into the picture.. Valero was a better boxer and puncher than many people give him credit for, but that's a subject for another thread.. This concerns the very hittable Hearns -- a guy who got pounded out.

Whether Floyd ranks higher than Hearns or not is sort of irrelevant here. The question is who wins the fight. Do you think Floyd beats Hearns? If so, how?

[Counter-puncher]

"chinny chin chin ... Mayweather fought 50 times and never lost... crude swinger Barkley... skinny chinny chinny chin chin... Valero... Mayweather rated top fighter ever by a computer ranking system.... chinny chin chin... etc"

someone else may as well do it, we can all pretty much answer any question on behalf of him by now, save you the pain of reading a whole answer.

[IKSRTFO]

Yeah??? ... A Lightweight who he's fighting at Super Middleweight -- where Kirkland Laing also beat Duran??? ... That's his best WIN???

I like to compare their worst losses... Hearns getting hit smack on the chin by an inept swinger like Barkley who loses his next 3 fights.

Valero doesn't have any losses or draws -- only dominating KO wins.

Because Valero never fought anyone worth mentioning.

[Kalan]

Antonio DeMarco is worth mentioning... He beat John Molina and Jorge Linares... He was a very competent fighter when Valero beat him and he was completely dominated, finessed, and stopped.. EV had the early option to take a TD win like Mikey did v Salido.. He took his chances.

Valero had 27 fights and 8 World Title Fights and won them all by KO... EV hadn't met many top quality guys yet but he had the skills and power to beat them as he progressed farther into his career... Ali was a huge underdog to Liston with 19 fights, but he obviously had the style to beat him... Foreman was a big underdog to Frazier, but it was evident he was going to crush the little tyke in short order.

Valero was never blasted out by a huge underdog as Hearns was... But many great fighters were knocked out and Tommy Hearns was great.

But given his chin and defense few would say he's the greatest ever... Many say Floyd Mayweather is the greatest ever.

[Kalan]

Whether Floyd ranks higher than Hearns or not is sort of irrelevant here ... Do you think Floyd beats Hearns? If so, how?

Floyd would only fight him at Welterweight where he would be at a more comfortable weight than Hearns... Floyd was a solid Welterweight... He paid a 600,000 dollar fine to Marquez because he couldn't get below 146... The contract called for 144 and Floyd couldn't get there.

Floyd was physically stronger than Hearns at 147.. He would pressure Hearns... stabbing jabs just above the navel, driving Hearns back... avoiding most everything he threw... and clobbering Hearns with straight rights. Floyd was one of the greatest defenders and had one of the most deceptive and smoothest right leads ever.. Hearns was one of the easiest guys to hit with straight rights.. Hearns could not absorb those shots like Canelo did.. Canelo took some vicious right hands from Triple-G without going down.. Hearns was knocked out 3 times in his 20's and Floyd would keep the pressure on and turn it up round by round ... and shittcan Hearns late.

If your had a weak chin and weak defense -- Floyd took you out.. Mayweather was never knocked off his feet.. 1 glove touch. That's it.

[ElJefe]

Whether Floyd ranks higher than Hearns or not is sort of irrelevant here ... Do you think Floyd beats Hearns? If so, how?

Floyd would only fight him at Welterweight where he would be at a more comfortable weight than Hearns... Floyd was a solid Welterweight... He paid a 600,000 dollar fine to Marquez because he couldn't get below 146... The contract called for 144 and Floyd couldn't get there.

Floyd was physically stronger than Hearns at 147.. He would pressure Hearns... stabbing jabs just above the navel, driving Hearns back... avoiding most everything he threw... and clobbering Hearns with straight rights. Floyd was one of the greatest defenders and had one of the most deceptive and smoothest right leads ever.. Hearns was one of the easiest guys to hit with straight rights.. Hearns could not absorb those shots like Canelo did.. Canelo took some vicious right hands from Triple-G without going down.. Hearns was knocked out 3 times in his 20's and Floyd would keep the pressure on and turn it up round by round ... and shittcan Hearns late.

If your had a weak chin and weak defense -- Floyd took you out.. Mayweather was never knocked off his feet.. 1 glove touch. That's it.

It's a big leap from being stopped in a war by a Hagler, late by Leonard and then by Barkley who was limited but strong, to being stopped by a man who only had, what, 2 legit stoppages at 147lbs+? I think the snap in Floyd's punches was an underrated part of his game, but it's clear that he'd be comfortably the least powerful of those 4. There's no real evidence to suggest that he'd be able to hurt Hearns.

Also, Leonard was much more aggressive than Mayweather would ever be and hit harder than Floyd would yet he still took until the 14th to stop him, but Floyd would do it in less than 12? And Hearns was leading on the cards, which suggests that your assessment of him as being "one of the easiest guys to hit with straight rights" as being an exaggeration. Leonard was brilliant offensively and a great finisher, there's no way anyone who was so easy to hit either A) lasts 13 rounds with him or B) wins more rounds than him. Floyd was a safety first fighter in his later years, that's not the way to beat Hearns.

[Cojimar 1946]

Hearns failed at the elite level losing to Leonard and Hagler. Pointing out that Marquez would have beaten Valero doesn't really help Hearns case here.

[Kalan]

If a 39 year old Mosley can have him all over the place inside 4 minutes

Mosley wasn't 39 you ignorant, lying, exaggerating piece of shitt..

WOW, Shane was a WHOLE 4 MONTHS short of 39, that must have made all the difference. What are you trying to imply RETARD, if he was 4 months older the punch that put Mayflower on queer street wouldn't have landed?

That’s the best you can DO? Floyd getting wobbled and coming back to win very easily over Shane Mosley – one History’s greatest 3-Division World Champions??? The next round Mayweather had Mosley retreating all over the ring behind a sustained, high-powered assault that hurt Shane.. That backed Mosley off for good.. How does that compare to Tommy getting flattened by the crude, slow punching, and inept Iran Barkley??? Barkley LOST his next 3 fights after blasting Tommy Hearns unconscious – going down to his 6th defeat (6 losses) in 32 fights.

Barkley finally got back into the winning column again when he fought perennial punching bag Juan Hernandez, 4-13... Barkley beat the long shot by an extremely unpopular decision.. Hernandez went down to his 10th straight loss – but he floored Barkley and nearly knocked him out. The referee constantly intervened to help Barkley survive – and when the decision was announced the crowd wouldn’t let up booing.. It was a rotten decision.. Barkley was lucky to come out alive against a 5th rater who never scored a KO in his ENTIRE CAREER!!!

That’s right!! … Juan Hernandez’s KO ratio was a big fat 0% but he floored Iran Barkley hard and nearly knocked him out.

Out of interest do they let retards like you breed in America?

It has been explained to you above that Hearns was a natural Welterweight with the power to hurt any 147 fighter who ever lived, Mayflower was a former S / Feather who couldn't knock over any 147 fighter he faced. Only what was left of the former LIGHT WELTER HAtton after Kostya Tszyu had ruined him.

However because you are a lowlife retarded Yank I fully expect you to keep on and on waffling about what Hearns did or didn't do at Middle and Light Heavy, when your little hero Mayflower was scared shittless to even talk about fighting Golovkin, never mind getting in with the guy.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Mayflower would ever have had the guts to get in with the Hearns that Leonard fought in 1981. All those KO wins would have kept him well away from Tommy, ffs the little creep even ran from a former flyweight for 5 years.

Question Old-N-Moldie.., Do they let scum of the earth cockneyed swine like you out after dark in East London???

Has it been explained to you that Hearns couldn't get some brittle chinned Welters out??? Has it been explained to you that Juan Hernandez, who never knocked anyone out in his life, knocked Iran Barkley down and nearly put him out after Barkley lost 3 straight fights following his crushing KO victory over Tommy Hearns??? Hernandez went down to his 10th straight defeat on a robbery that was loudly booed by the fans.

Has it been explained to you that Hearns was knocked out 4 times in 5 losses -- and Floyd was never knocked out in his life and and never even knocked off his feet??? ... Has it been explained to you that Floyd beat 3 HOF caliber Middleweight Champions and Hearns was KO'd by 3 Middleweight Champions??? ... Has it been explained to you that a hard breeze was threatening to blow Tommy Hearns away if Sugar Ray Leonard didn't do it first in their Welterweight Fight???

Has it been to you that Wilfred Benitez was knocked out several times, including by Ray Leonard---and Hearns couldn't get him out??? ... Has it been explained to you that Floyd is the top ranked fighter in Boxing History by this website and Hearns is not even on the first page???