BoxRec

Nightmare Roy wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:GGG is in an unfortunate position, he's super dangerous and exciting but doesn't generate much money, all this talk of people avoiding is purely down to business, if he generated money like Floyd did and his opponents were getting paid as much, fighters would be queuing up to fight him. It's risk vs reward.

Didn't his last fight do good TV numbers in the states? Well, considering him and Lemiux aren't Americans.

No it bombed on ppv and Lemiux got paid less that $2m

I just found this. It did 150,000 buys and sold out MSG. HBO were happy. Tom Loeffler was happy. In fairness, Mayweather didn't do big number immediately and this was GGG's PPV debut. I can't see Saunders being an easy sell in the states, especially not after the snoozefest that got him the title.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/13 ... -view-buys

reggaereggae wrote:
Ok... Can I call him Blow Hard Saunders? He talks big but doesn't really bring it; much prefers to scrape decisions. And yes, he is acceptable in the top 10, but as a genuine world champ he's one of the worst claimants at any weight t. He'll soon get get beaten and forgotten. I would put Eubank Jnr as favourite if they have a rematch.

I will take your odds if they fight again , what u wanna bet ? PMed u

expe wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:I havent heard anything for a while. What is going on? Did Saunders ask for more money? They rejected?

Just this interview so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emLPEzJ220

They haven't made a decision yet, waiting on Jimmy Tibbs coming back, then they'll all sit down at some point in the next couple of weeks and decide where to go next. VVarren says that he wants him to fight in March/April and if they do go for the Golovkin fight, the money on the table right now isn't enough.

"Money isnt enough" He must be kidding us, aside from Cotto-Canelo (And their opponents) who was paid more than $3-4m at the middleweight division for the last couple of years? Jacobs and quillin got $1.5m, Golovkin and Lemieux made $2m and $1,5m..

They are simply pricing themselves out.. its impossible for K2 to pay them $6m, we all know it

Aaronide_ger wrote:

expe wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:I havent heard anything for a while. What is going on? Did Saunders ask for more money? They rejected?

Just this interview so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emLPEzJ220

They haven't made a decision yet, waiting on Jimmy Tibbs coming back, then they'll all sit down at some point in the next couple of weeks and decide where to go next. VVarren says that he wants him to fight in March/April and if they do go for the Golovkin fight, the money on the table right now isn't enough.

"Money isnt enough" He must be kidding us, aside from Cotto-Canelo (And their opponents) who was paid more than $3-4m at the middleweight division for the last couple of years? Jacobs and quillin got $1.5m, Golovkin and Lemieux made $2m and $1,5m..

They are simply pricing themselves out.. its impossible for K2 to pay them $6m, we all know it

We don't know what the offer is. Definitely isn't the £/$ 6 million that Billy Joe has claimed and whatever it is they were never going to accept the first offer, if it happens they'll drag it out for every last penny they can get. If K2 really want the fight for Golovkin then they'll have to pay for it, certainly a lot more than Lemieux got.

JimJim2009 wrote:I do think in 2016 GGG needs to face a big, big name, even if he has to go up to 168lbs.

Who at 168 is a big, big name? Who at 168 is anywhere near as big a name as Canelo? Golovkin as persistently sought out the best opponents willing to fight him. He's set out to get all of the belts to become the undisputed champion of his division. He isn't looking for soft opponents. The only guys left at Middle for him are Canelo and Saunders. Jacobs is an emerging name but he's only got the regular WBA, while GGG already holds the super version, so is not of interest.

Ian1973 wrote:

Horse wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:Blow Job Saunders admitted in his post fight interview that the reason he didn't go after Lee when he had him hurt was because he felt Andy's power so spend the rest of the fight playing safe. Now no one really saw Lee land much of a punch in the third, but if Blow Job was scared of Lee's power from a glancing shot, GGG will make him sh1t his pants and bang him out in 5 rounds. No way Blow Job has the guts to fight GGG

Lee is probably a bigger one shot puncher than Golovkin.

You think so? Interesting. Not sure I agree mate but hey ho it's all about opinions.

I agree with horse on that. Lee puts guys to sleep at any time whereas Golovkin clubs them into submission. His offence is persistent and relentless, while Lee's best shots are without warning.

ALI wrote:When its all said and done all that matters is who he fought and who he beat, a WBO belt from bashing up someone like Saunders means jack sh*t to anyone who knows and understands the sport.

His division has sucked for a while and will continue to suck for some time yet, he is too big a talent to be lingering like he is, his prime wont last much longer, hd is to old to be wasting time like he is. His handlers are obviously happy cashing their safe cheques 2 or 3 times a year, its the only reason i pressume he is not moving up, they dont want to risk their paydays.

The Lemiuex PPV flopped. They are chasing paydays. They are by no means picking up safe cheques. They are having to pay opponents extremely well just to face him.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Didn't his last fight do good TV numbers in the states? Well, considering him and Lemiux aren't Americans.

No it bombed on ppv and Lemiux got paid less that $2m

I just found this. It did 150,000 buys and sold out MSG. HBO were happy. Tom Loeffler was happy. In fairness, Mayweather didn't do big number immediately and this was GGG's PPV debut. I can't see Saunders being an easy sell in the states, especially not after the snoozefest that got him the title.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/13 ... -view-buys

I think that's fine for his PPV debut.

He needs the kind of fight Floyd has against Oscar, a crossover fight against an established star.

That name is Canelo, however, I think GB are going to want huge money for that fight, because they know he's going in a big underdog, so they won't trade him lightly.

expe wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:

expe wrote: Just this interview so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emLPEzJ220

They haven't made a decision yet, waiting on Jimmy Tibbs coming back, then they'll all sit down at some point in the next couple of weeks and decide where to go next. VVarren says that he wants him to fight in March/April and if they do go for the Golovkin fight, the money on the table right now isn't enough.

"Money isnt enough" He must be kidding us, aside from Cotto-Canelo (And their opponents) who was paid more than $3-4m at the middleweight division for the last couple of years? Jacobs and quillin got $1.5m, Golovkin and Lemieux made $2m and $1,5m..

They are simply pricing themselves out.. its impossible for K2 to pay them $6m, we all know it

We don't know what the offer is. Definitely isn't the £/$ 6 million that Billy Joe has claimed and whatever it is they were never going to accept the first offer, if it happens they'll drag it out for every last penny they can get. If K2 really want the fight for Golovkin then they'll have to pay for it, certainly a lot more than Lemieux got.

its reported the offer was $4m. By many boxing sites + youtubers. Ofc nothing is official and it could be a mere $1m who knows.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

Aaronide_ger wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

So they get offered an obscene amount of money for a fighter that realistically outside of the boxing community people don't know, and want more or ask the guy who people in the UK and US have heard of and are excited by and hold 2 of 4 belts to travel to the UK.

If they want golovkin to travel why are K2 having to stump up the fight money, frank should be doing that.

I don't see BJS fighting GGG now or in 18months, I just see him as having easy defences made from the WBO top 15. The problem with being on allegedly is that you don't get the name outside of the boxing community.

Sky and hearn for all their mismatches they offer exposure for fighters. just look at how well eubank jnr is regarded by people who only fleetingly watch boxing. most don't even know he lost to BJS or say who when its mentioned.

If they fought in this country I couldn't see it selling out anything bigger than 10-15k

Aaronide_ger wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

Well, effectively, that's 'No thanks' from BJS team. They are not going to get more than that, and certainly won't be getting GGG to come to the UK as he's trying to build a profile stateside, and BJS isn't that big a name to demand the fight be in his own back yard.

I'm not saying Saunders is scared of GGG, but I think his team quite rightly don't want this fight unless it's going to pay enough to set BJS up, as at the least, it's likely to end his tenure as a belt holder, and could result in quite a beating, or lopsided win.

johnswan1 wrote:

ALI wrote:When its all said and done all that matters is who he fought and who he beat, a WBO belt from bashing up someone like Saunders means jack sh*t to anyone who knows and understands the sport.

His division has sucked for a while and will continue to suck for some time yet, he is too big a talent to be lingering like he is, his prime wont last much longer, hd is to old to be wasting time like he is. His handlers are obviously happy cashing their safe cheques 2 or 3 times a year, its the only reason i pressume he is not moving up, they dont want to risk their paydays.

The Lemiuex PPV flopped. They are chasing paydays. They are by no means picking up safe cheques. They are having to pay opponents extremely well just to face him.

I don't think it was a flop, in the sense that they would have expected it to flop.

Those that did watch it, saw him put a beatdown on a dangerous puncher, albeit a methodical one. They were doing it to establish him as a PPV fighter, and continue to do so.

It's a shame GGG is already knocking on a bit, I fear he will never become the star his talent deserves, partly due to the lack of dance partners are 160, and the fact that he is unlikely to ever get to face Ward at 168.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

ALI wrote:When its all said and done all that matters is who he fought and who he beat, a WBO belt from bashing up someone like Saunders means jack sh*t to anyone who knows and understands the sport.

His division has sucked for a while and will continue to suck for some time yet, he is too big a talent to be lingering like he is, his prime wont last much longer, hd is to old to be wasting time like he is. His handlers are obviously happy cashing their safe cheques 2 or 3 times a year, its the only reason i pressume he is not moving up, they dont want to risk their paydays.

The Lemiuex PPV flopped. They are chasing paydays. They are by no means picking up safe cheques. They are having to pay opponents extremely well just to face him.

I don't think it was a flop, in the sense that they would have expected it to flop.

Those that did watch it, saw him put a beatdown on a dangerous puncher, albeit a methodical one. They were doing it to establish him as a PPV fighter, and continue to do so.

It's a shame GGG is already knocking on a bit, I fear he will never become the star his talent deserves, partly due to the lack of dance partners are 160, and the fact that he is unlikely to ever get to face Ward at 168.

It was a flop because they were very vocal beforehand about how anything over 200k would be a success. The event did superbly in terms of gate and merchandising but the PPV numbers did not follow the same momentum. Lemieux was reportedly paid $2m.

Afterwards Team GGG and HBO were left scratching their heads. Did the PPV itself flop, or had the PPV model itself been damaged post Mayweather-Pac. Many concluded it was the latter and expectations for PPV numbers on Cotto-Canelo were lowered as a result. People were wondering whether that PPV would manage more than 500k buys, but it ended up outperforming all expectations in coming in at over 900k - which itself is the definitive proof that there isn't much wrong with the PPV model - the problem was that Golovkin is not a well enough known name for an A side, or Lemieux was not enough of a B side draw outside of Canada, or a combination of both.

johnswan1 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:
The Lemiuex PPV flopped. They are chasing paydays. They are by no means picking up safe cheques. They are having to pay opponents extremely well just to face him.

I don't think it was a flop, in the sense that they would have expected it to flop.

Those that did watch it, saw him put a beatdown on a dangerous puncher, albeit a methodical one. They were doing it to establish him as a PPV fighter, and continue to do so.

It's a shame GGG is already knocking on a bit, I fear he will never become the star his talent deserves, partly due to the lack of dance partners are 160, and the fact that he is unlikely to ever get to face Ward at 168.

It was a flop because they were very vocal beforehand about how anything over 200k would be a success. The event did superbly in terms of gate and merchandising but the PPV numbers did not follow the same momentum. Lemieux was reportedly paid $2m.

Afterwards Team GGG and HBO were left scratching their heads. Did the PPV itself flop, or had the PPV model itself been damaged post Mayweather-Pac. Many concluded it was the latter and expectations for PPV numbers on Cotto-Canelo were lowered as a result. People were wondering whether that PPV would manage more than 500k buys, but it ended up outperforming all expectations in coming in at over 900k - which itself is the definitive proof that there isn't much wrong with the PPV model - the problem was that Golovkin is not a well enough known name for an A side, or Lemieux was not enough of a B side draw outside of Canada, or a combination of both.

Interesting, thanks John.

It does sound like perhaps their expectations were a little unrealistic. GGG is not a household name stateside, he needs a well known dance partner.

If the fight with Canelo can be made, and he wins, which most would expect him to, bar a shafting on the cards, then he will kind of inherit some of his stardom, much like Mayweather did with DLH.

Against Canelo, I think GGG will have to accept the thin end of the wedge to a large degree to get the fight made.

The fact Cotto v Canelo did so well is perhaps an aberration, both men had large followings from their respective communities. I'd say any PPV like that will do well, but there aren't so many like that.

Yes, and it seems fans want both PPV participants to be stars. It seems the days of one star carrying big number PPV cards may be over. Even Mayweather ultimately suffered (or more likely his backers did as his purse would have been guaranteed) by doing reportedly as low as 400k buys vs Berto. Was Lemieux any more of a name than Berto was?

johnswan1 wrote:Yes, and it seems fans want both PPV participants to be stars. It seems the days of one star carrying big number PPV cards may be over. Even Mayweather ultimately suffered (or more likely his backers did as his purse would have been guaranteed) by doing reportedly as low as 400k buys vs Berto. Was Lemieux any more of a name than Berto was?

Doubt it, maybe less of one, certainly to U.S viewers he would have been more or less a complete unknown.

I think you're right, quite rightly, people are getting weary of funding the likes of Floyd's retirement funds, and are more likely to shell out for something that is actually PPV worthy, rather than paying just to see an 'event.' I hope that is the case, as it will hopefully reign in expectation from promoters and TV execs.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

Well, effectively, that's 'No thanks' from BJS team. They are not going to get more than that, and certainly won't be getting GGG to come to the UK as he's trying to build a profile stateside, and BJS isn't that big a name to demand the fight be in his own back yard.

I'm not saying Saunders is scared of GGG, but I think his team quite rightly don't want this fight unless it's going to pay enough to set BJS up, as at the least, it's likely to end his tenure as a belt holder, and could result in quite a beating, or lopsided win.

Agreed. They won't him near GGG at all. I forsee a series of defences for Saunders before eventually fighting someone like Canelo, but not GGG. I must say, I can't blame them, although I do feel sorry for GGG. No one wants to fight him at all.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

Well, effectively, that's 'No thanks' from BJS team. They are not going to get more than that, and certainly won't be getting GGG to come to the UK as he's trying to build a profile stateside, and BJS isn't that big a name to demand the fight be in his own back yard.

I'm not saying Saunders is scared of GGG, but I think his team quite rightly don't want this fight unless it's going to pay enough to set BJS up, as at the least, it's likely to end his tenure as a belt holder, and could result in quite a beating, or lopsided win.

I don't believe that BJS is scared of GGG either, but I will say this... if I was BJS, I would want to take the fight. I'd be financially secure for life and if I win (and I think BJS will think he can win) I'd be fighting Canelo and having a shot at being #1 in the division.

Even if he loses, he still has plenty of options. Eubank rematch etc etc. At the minute BJS ain't a big ticket seller, but a fight with GGG could raise his stock significantly.

I do feel for GGG a bit. His handlers try and pay people over the odds to fight him and they turn him down.

any professional boxer that gets offered 2M to fight someone in there division should be snapping up the money no question
unless they already have a few million in there bank account.

Nobody would think any less of BJS if he got knocked out /stopped by GGG.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id ... -advantage

Team Golovkin offered about $3.2m (or 2.2m British pounds) according to Dan Rafael, yet Saunders wants MORE or requests Golovkin to come to england with the same amount of money (Or demand Less at least)

I hope they make the fight in England.. I hope they really do.

Well, effectively, that's 'No thanks' from BJS team. They are not going to get more than that, and certainly won't be getting GGG to come to the UK as he's trying to build a profile stateside, and BJS isn't that big a name to demand the fight be in his own back yard.

I'm not saying Saunders is scared of GGG, but I think his team quite rightly don't want this fight unless it's going to pay enough to set BJS up, as at the least, it's likely to end his tenure as a belt holder, and could result in quite a beating, or lopsided win.

I don't believe that BJS is scared of GGG either, but I will say this... if I was BJS, I would want to take the fight. I'd be financially secure for life and if I win (and I think BJS will think he can win) I'd be fighting Canelo and having a shot at being #1 in the division.

Even if he loses, he still has plenty of options. Eubank rematch etc etc. At the minute BJS ain't a big ticket seller, but a fight with GGG could raise his stock significantly.

I do feel for GGG a bit. His handlers try and pay people over the odds to fight him and they turn him down.

It's possible Saunders want it, but his team don't. That's a pretty good pile of money, but it's not usually the model that his camp follow, usually lots of relatively soft defences, then nearer the end of the career, some high risk fights. It's a pretty well tried and tested formula.

I agree, if he got stopped by GGG, so what - I'd admire him more for taking the shot.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Well, effectively, that's 'No thanks' from BJS team. They are not going to get more than that, and certainly won't be getting GGG to come to the UK as he's trying to build a profile stateside, and BJS isn't that big a name to demand the fight be in his own back yard.

I'm not saying Saunders is scared of GGG, but I think his team quite rightly don't want this fight unless it's going to pay enough to set BJS up, as at the least, it's likely to end his tenure as a belt holder, and could result in quite a beating, or lopsided win.

I don't believe that BJS is scared of GGG either, but I will say this... if I was BJS, I would want to take the fight. I'd be financially secure for life and if I win (and I think BJS will think he can win) I'd be fighting Canelo and having a shot at being #1 in the division.

Even if he loses, he still has plenty of options. Eubank rematch etc etc. At the minute BJS ain't a big ticket seller, but a fight with GGG could raise his stock significantly.

I do feel for GGG a bit. His handlers try and pay people over the odds to fight him and they turn him down.

It's possible Saunders want it, but his team don't. That's a pretty good pile of money, but it's not usually the model that his camp follow, usually lots of relatively soft defences, then nearer the end of the career, some high risk fights. It's a pretty well tried and tested formula.

I agree, if he got stopped by GGG, so what - I'd admire him more for taking the shot.

If you were an undefeated boxer who's rated in the top 5 by pretty much everyone, why wouldn't you want to fight one of the top 2 in the world? I'm sure BJS thinks he can beat anyone, why would he not think that way?

He should take the fight. Get's him exposure in the US, gets him millions, he gets to fight in a full arena for a change. What's not to like?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
I don't believe that BJS is scared of GGG either, but I will say this... if I was BJS, I would want to take the fight. I'd be financially secure for life and if I win (and I think BJS will think he can win) I'd be fighting Canelo and having a shot at being #1 in the division.

Even if he loses, he still has plenty of options. Eubank rematch etc etc. At the minute BJS ain't a big ticket seller, but a fight with GGG could raise his stock significantly.

I do feel for GGG a bit. His handlers try and pay people over the odds to fight him and they turn him down.

It's possible Saunders want it, but his team don't. That's a pretty good pile of money, but it's not usually the model that his camp follow, usually lots of relatively soft defences, then nearer the end of the career, some high risk fights. It's a pretty well tried and tested formula.

I agree, if he got stopped by GGG, so what - I'd admire him more for taking the shot.

If you were an undefeated boxer who's rated in the top 5 by pretty much everyone, why wouldn't you want to fight one of the top 2 in the world? I'm sure BJS thinks he can beat anyone, why would he not think that way?

He should take the fight. Get's him exposure in the US, gets him millions, he gets to fight in a full arena for a change. What's not to like?

And get an absolute career ending beatdown... If BJS was scared of Lee's power after he had him seriously hurt, how's he going to react when he feels GGG's power.

GGG by 5 round beating.....

reggaereggae wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: If you were an undefeated boxer who's rated in the top 5 by pretty much everyone, why wouldn't you want to fight one of the top 2 in the world? I'm sure BJS thinks he can beat anyone, why would he not think that way?

He should take the fight. Get's him exposure in the US, gets him millions, he gets to fight in a full arena for a change. What's not to like?

And get an absolute career ending beatdown... If BJS was scared of Lee's power after he had him seriously hurt, how's he going to react when he feels GGG's power.

GGG by 5 round beating.....

I ain't saying GGG won't win it. I give BJS one chance in 20. However, when was the last time you saw a one sided career ending beat down between 2 titlists?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: If you were an undefeated boxer who's rated in the top 5 by pretty much everyone, why wouldn't you want to fight one of the top 2 in the world? I'm sure BJS thinks he can beat anyone, why would he not think that way?

He should take the fight. Get's him exposure in the US, gets him millions, he gets to fight in a full arena for a change. What's not to like?

And get an absolute career ending beatdown... If BJS was scared of Lee's power after he had him seriously hurt, how's he going to react when he feels GGG's power.

GGG by 5 round beating.....

I ain't saying GGG won't win it. I give BJS one chance in 20. However, when was the last time you saw a one sided career ending beat down between 2 titlists?

I'd give BJS one chance in 50, and I honestly feel even that is a bit generous.

But he should take the fight anyway