Rocky Marciano vs Joe Bugner

[Tuan_Jim]

'You're obviously not going to change your mind and believe Marciano/Moore was fixed':

2-forget about the fix allegation, you're obviously not gonna change your mind.

.

[Tuan_Jim]

'Omg lol YOU AREN'T GOING TO CONVINCE ME Marciano/Moore wasn't fixed':

You are so emotional omg

I'm obviously not going to convince you and you aren't going to convince me. I was trying to be polite and drop the issue but you insist on focusing on only one part of my post. I brought up several valid points that are shared by many respected writers, posters, fighters, trainers, etc. You act like what I'm saying is nonsense and unfounded but you have yet to prove it.

[Tuan_Jim]

'EVEN VIDEO EVIDENCE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!':

I said disprove Tosche's arguments...something you have failed to do and just keep spamming the fight on youtube.

I see you are unable to form any constructive counter arguments. Concession accepted.

[Tuan_Jim]

And this guy's seriously trying to distance himself from his fixed fight stance NOW?

Two words:

Concession accepted.

[Cygnus475]

Oh man, u got me.

You've proven I've been consistent throughout this entire thread and you haven't addressed anything, once again.

The hilarious part is you think I'm embarrassed and I'm going to take back what I said. Go ahead, keep requoting me. It still doesn't change the fact you haven't responded to anything for 3 pages and are making a spectacle and an ass out of yourself thinking you're clever and have made some profound point (hint: you havent).

If you want to start a Marciano rumour thread I am more than happy to waste both our times as I continue to school you there with facts while you ignore everything and go on tirades about things I never said. Or you can continue derailing this thread and keep it of topic. I don't care either way, but ball's in your court bucko, I've said my peace. Waiting on you to, idk, actually debate...? Would that be too much to ask...? I certainly hope not, since you talked all that trash about me being a troll but you've done nothing but spam, flame, go off topic and clown. HMMMM....

[Controversial]

it's a FACT that his brother Peter fought under fake aliases to fight him which was stated in his own biography.

Haha really? You do realise his brother Peter was 17 years younger than Rocky? That means Peter was only 7 when Rocky turned pro. He must've been a big kid lol

[Cygnus475]

I don't remember if it was his brother or cousin, he freely admits it in his own biography.

[Controversial]

I don't remember if it was his brother or cousin, he freely admits it in his own biography.

Its a load of rubbish, for many years and on many different forums people said Peter fought Marciano using an alias, I've never heard it was a cousin so your tale doesn't ring true I'm afraid. Easily sorted though, what book are you referring to? Take a photo of the page where it says it and post it on here, I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Cygnus475]

I don't remember if it was his brother or cousin, he freely admits it in his own biography.

Its a load of rubbish, for many years and on many different forums people said Peter fought Marciano using an alias, I've never heard it was a cousin so your tale doesn't ring true I'm afraid. Easily sorted though, what book are you referring to? Take a photo of the page where it says it and post it on here, I'd be interested in seeing it.

So you haven't even read it but you're dismissing the information? Lol.

[Controversial]

I don't remember if it was his brother or cousin, he freely admits it in his own biography.

Its a load of rubbish, for many years and on many different forums people said Peter fought Marciano using an alias, I've never heard it was a cousin so your tale doesn't ring true I'm afraid. Easily sorted though, what book are you referring to? Take a photo of the page where it says it and post it on here, I'd be interested in seeing it.

So you haven't even read it but you're dismissing the information? Lol.

In not dismissing it, I'm just asking to see the paragraph where it says it. The urban myth is his brother fought him, I've never heard it was a cousin.

[Caractacus]

Are you all talking about the four boxing exhibitions that Marciano did in the state of Maine in 1952
with his brother Louis(aka Sonny) Marchegiano (who was an amateur in High School at the time)?
The big stink I think was the promoter had orginally adverised the exhibition with Pete Fuller
(a well known amateur boxer and also the son of the govenor of Massachusetts),
but I think Marciano had freely told the press before hand that he was actually doing the exhibition with his brother.(trying to help him out I guess)
The concern was that maybe the real Pete Fuller would loose his amateur status doing an exhibition with a professional.
anyway it was too late to change the advertising for it.
But Louis Marchegiano used the name Tony Zullo when introduced i think.

[Ezzard]

I can imagine Bugner maybe possibly beating world class guys who faded down the stretch. Bugner knew how to look after himself and only the very best could get him out of there early. I can imagine Bugner coming on strong late in a fight where a win would make a big difference to his living standards.

But clearly Marciano got stronger in a fight and would win an easy decision or maybe a late stoppage.

Read the magazines of the day...journalists were calling for Rocky to defend against Archie...he was seen as a real threat and it was a superfight of its era. Marciano bashed him up something awful. Not nice to see a great man like Archie take that beating.

[Tuan_Jim]

Its a load of rubbish, for many years and on many different forums people said Peter fought Marciano using an alias, I've never heard it was a cousin so your tale doesn't ring true I'm afraid. Easily sorted though, what book are you referring to? Take a photo of the page where it says it and post it on here, I'd be interested in seeing it.

So you haven't even read it but you're dismissing the information? Lol.

In not dismissing it, I'm just asking to see the paragraph where it says it. The urban myth is his brother fought him, I've never heard it was a cousin.

What a surprise. Cygnus, the man who demands other people produce direct paragraphs from books can't actually produce direct paragraphs from books himself. And he has his facts wrong - again!

[Tuan_Jim]

I can imagine Bugner maybe possibly beating world class guys who faded down the stretch. Bugner knew how to look after himself and only the very best could get him out of there early. I can imagine Bugner coming on strong late in a fight where a win would make a big difference to his living standards.

But clearly Marciano got stronger in a fight and would win an easy decision or maybe a late stoppage.

Read the magazines of the day...journalists were calling for Rocky to defend against Archie...he was seen as a real threat and it was a superfight of its era. Marciano bashed him up something awful. Not nice to see a great man like Archie take that beating.

What!? Aren't you aware that fight was fake!? Cygnus has it on good authority Moore took a dive (I'm not kidding), and unless you can prove the fight was real he'll continue to believe it's fake. Warning: video evidence of the fight doesn't count.

[Caractacus]

I can imagine Bugner maybe possibly beating world class guys who faded down the stretch. Bugner knew how to look after himself and only the very best could get him out of there early. I can imagine Bugner coming on strong late in a fight where a win would make a big difference to his living standards.

But clearly Marciano got stronger in a fight and would win an easy decision or maybe a late stoppage.

Read the magazines of the day...journalists were calling for Rocky to defend against Archie...he was seen as a real threat and it was a superfight of its era. Marciano bashed him up something awful. Not nice to see a great man like Archie take that beating.

Luckily however the two did meet in the ring because if they had not,no doubt
even 65 years later we would hear posters on hear how Marciano had "ducked" Moore probably because he was "Ascared"
and no doubt Moore would have been the new Heavyweight Champion back then.

[Cygnus475]

So you haven't even read it but you're dismissing the information? Lol.

In not dismissing it, I'm just asking to see the paragraph where it says it. The urban myth is his brother fought him, I've never heard it was a cousin.

What a surprise. Cygnus, the man who demands other people produce direct paragraphs from books can't actually produce direct paragraphs from books himself. And he has his facts wrong - again!

The fact I mixed up his brother Peter with Louis means everything I said should be dismissed?

Still not responding to anything I see. You're a little girl.

[Controversial]

In not dismissing it, I'm just asking to see the paragraph where it says it. The urban myth is his brother fought him, I've never heard it was a cousin.

What a surprise. Cygnus, the man who demands other people produce direct paragraphs from books can't actually produce direct paragraphs from books himself. And he has his facts wrong - again!

The fact I mixed up his brother Peter with Louis means everything I said should be dismissed?

That incident was so minor and irrelevant why did you mention it? I think you were going along with the tale that Peter fought Marciano as a pro under various names to bulk up Marciano's record, obviously unaware that it was all a load of rubbish.

[Tuan_Jim]

What a surprise. Cygnus, the man who demands other people produce direct paragraphs from books can't actually produce direct paragraphs from books himself. And he has his facts wrong - again!

The fact I mixed up his brother Peter with Louis means everything I said should be dismissed?

That incident was so minor and irrelevant why did you mention it? I think you were going along with the tale that Peter fought Marciano as a pro under various names to bulk up Marciano's record, obviously unaware that it was all a load of rubbish.

He was happy to dismiss Marciano/Moore - a legendary fight captured on video - as a fix, without ever watching the fight, simply because an elderly peripheral gangster claimed it was to Nick Tosches in his Sonny Liston book. The same elderly peripheral gangster changed his story a mere four years later in another book, but what do facts or research matter to this guy? He has a skewed vision of Marciano he wishes to spread, and if you don't like it, or you have the audacity to point out the absurdity of his ideas, he'll simply call you a "fanboy".

He's been exposed again and again in this thread, surprised he keeps coming back for more. It's not going to get any better for him.

[Cygnus475]

What a surprise. Cygnus, the man who demands other people produce direct paragraphs from books can't actually produce direct paragraphs from books himself. And he has his facts wrong - again!

The fact I mixed up his brother Peter with Louis means everything I said should be dismissed?

That incident was so minor and irrelevant why did you mention it? I think you were going along with the tale that Peter fought Marciano as a pro under various names to bulk up Marciano's record, obviously unaware that it was all a load of rubbish.

I couldn't remember if it was just the exhibitions or if he fought him pro as well. If not, I stand corrected.

Did Tuan actually post something relevant when he responded? I have the bozo on ignore until he stops acting like a 10 year old.

[Controversial]

I couldn't remember if it was just the exhibitions or if he fought him pro as well. If not, I stand corrected.

No they only sparred in a few exhibitions. Louis was an amateur boxer, only 18 and a middleweight I believe, Rocky was around 29 and two fights away from fighting for the HW title. Maybe you should research first before declaring things as "facts".

[keithmoonhangover]

I think it's a tough fight to call. Bugner had an excellent defence, but doesn't hit hard enough to put The Rock away. Marciano outwork him to a close decision.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I was wondering how this thread got so long. Amazing how many fans call brutal beatings fixed fights. There were a bunch on the Mansour/Breazeale fight recently. Dives don't come with the preclusion that you have to take an inhuman beating for an exact amount of time. Fools act like it's Freddie Ling telling Vandamn you must get punished all the rounds or Archie Moore die!

Saad, do you have an opinion on the second Rocky-JJW fight?

(and for the Rocky fans, I do not dispute that Rocky landed a good punch in the second fight, but I do think JJW quit)

I don't think Joe was all in, don't think it was a set up. I've always been interested in that fight I read about in a marciano book when I was a kid that says his first pro fight was under his given name and he lost by dq.

[Caractacus]

who did he loose to ?
and does that mean now that the boxing history books have to be revised ?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

who did he loose to ?
and does that mean now that the boxing history books have to be revised ?

I read it when I was about 12, don't know if it's accurate, but it's in the biography. He was out of shape, kicked the guy in the balls and vowed to never be out of shape again. Rocky marchigianno was 0-1.

[Caractacus]

Man you trying to be funny or something ?
You "Dont know if it was accurate" but you wanna spread the rumour here of course.
You know and I know that you are really referring to is when Marciano first turned amateur
back when he was on furlough from the Army and back in Brockton April 1946
when he fought Ted Lester in a n amateur tournament.
Marciano was so tired in the third round he lost his balance and accidently kneed Lester in the groin
and the referre disqulified him.