BoxRec

Kalan wrote:

jezzamundo wrote: Only the blind can watch heavyweight boxing from the 70s, 80s and 90s, then watch more recent fights and believe today's heavyweights are superior. The difference isn't so big in other weight divisions, but it's there.

LOOK.. I've been around for a very long time and boxers today are better. A lot of "experts" who confidently say a boxer from the past would knock out a fighter today in "5 rounds" if they bet on real fights they'd soon be broke. They have ZERO idea what they're looking at. You can't make water faster and swimmers today are smashing records. Divers, skaters, and gymnasts are preforming at a much higher degree of difficulty. No top Heavyweight of the 70's 80's or 90's had the combination of height, weight, reach, strength, speed, power, and intelligence Joshua has.

Take a list of some top Heavyweights today: 1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Erkan Teper... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Charles Martin... 14. Kubrat Pulev... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Czar Glazkov... 27. Arnold Gjergjaj... 28. Amir Mansour... 30. Artur Szpilka...

And compare them to some of the very small and weak ranked Heavyweight Title Challengers from the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s.. Don Cockell.. Roland LaStarza.. Tom McNeely.. Pete Rademacher.. Brian London.. Henry Cooper.. Alfredo Evangelista.. Jean Pierre Coopman.. Leon Spinks.. Terry Daniels.. Dave Zyglewitz.. Manuel Ramos.. Ron Stander.. Richard Dunn.. Now Chuck Wepner was 6'5" X 225, but he wasn't strong, fast, fit, skilled, elusive, or coordinated. He was very soft and squishy looking. He went 15 with Ali, but he might be gone in 15 seconds with AJ.

ikorolev wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Dude, boxing isn't merely an athletic exercise. Skills, or in the modern era the lack of them, make a much bigger contribution than mere athleticism

Otherwise jermain Taylor would be an ATG.

Of course, it isn't. But if a good MW fights a good WW, who would win ?

Kalan wrote:

Badhusker wrote: He fought LaMotta and gave up 15 lbs at the scale. Would GGG do that? No, he was afraid to test himself against Ward ... 25 years in the ring, starting out at 135 ... SRR sloppy footwork, jab, etc? You must be smoking some good stuff. He was on about fight 130 when he fought Turpin ... SRR is regarded as the number one pfp of all time by most experts ... You must be about Arum's age ... GGG is great, but is far from the #1 GOAT that you and a couple others seem to think. Its like someone saying they saw Ali in the mid and late 70's and he wasn't that good

That's a lot of emotional crap and BS you just wrote...do you need a crying towel??? LaMotta was a super hittable punching bag and lost a ton of fights. He had a KO ratio of 28% so he was no puncher either. He knocked Robinson down and beat him in 1 fight as terrible as he was .... Robinson wasn't 130 for Turpin. Don't talk like and idiot .... Golovkin WANTED to fight Ward but his coach Abel Sanchez wanted an acclimation fight at 168 FIRST!!! They tried to get 168 acclimation fights with Rodriguez, Oosthuizen, Chavez, and Froch at 168. All those fights were mysteriously scuttled. Ward wants THREE (3) acclimation fights before he fights Kovalev and Golovkin can't have ONE (1)??? .... Ward was a HUGE Super Middleweight and Golovkin is a small Middleweight. But Golovkin will DIFINITELY fight Ward in a few years and beat him easy at 175 and beat Kovalev too .... Robinson fought til he was past 40 and Golovkin can do the same. He had 350 amateur fights so he got a very late start as a pro. Then you have all the duckers like Martinez, Cotto, and Canelo who slowed down GGG's progress. The powers that be are trying to age GGG so they can get him beat .... If GGG fought 20 times in a year like Robinson did some years he'd have 200 fights by now. But he doesn't knock over 20 bums to pad his record and then lose to a good fighter like Robinson did .... A boxer's record in Title Defense is more important than his overall record because it's tougher to fight bums in Title Fights. Robinson's record in Middleweight Title defenses is 3-3 with 2 KO's and GGG's is 16-0 with 16 KO's .... If Robinson had such a masterful jab and footwork as Golovkin has, why did SRR LOSE to such unskilled swingers as LaMotta, Fullmer, Jones, Basilio, Turpin, and Pender??? .... Boxing Experts are full of crap. They never boxed and their blatherings are laughable .... I'm not as old as Bob Arum is. He's older than dirt .... I didn't say GGG was the GOAT but he's the top Middleweight .... Ali lost to the much shorter and smaller Joe Frazier (a wide-open walk-in left hooker) and to the very hittable and chinny Ken Norton when he was much younger than Triple-G is today. Ali wasn't as consistent, disciplined or as astute a trainer as GGG is and neither was Sugar Ray Robinson... That's why they started falling off a lot earlier... GGG HAS to be disciplined because he's not an American, he's a Kazakh and it's been much tougher for him fighting the Boxing Establishment ... Ali was my hero as a kid because I was dead against the stupid Viet Nam War. So I think Ali's a great human being but he wasn't the best Heavyweight ever. He was a little light on defense and punching power.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Dude, boxing isn't merely an athletic exercise. Skills, or in the modern era the lack of them, make a much bigger contribution than mere athleticism

Otherwise jermain Taylor would be an ATG.

Of course, it isn't. But if a good MW fights a good WW, who would win ?

That's size, not athleticism. You're getting confused.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Badhusker wrote: He fought LaMotta and gave up 15 lbs at the scale. Would GGG do that? No, he was afraid to test himself against Ward ... 25 years in the ring, starting out at 135 ... SRR sloppy footwork, jab, etc? You must be smoking some good stuff. He was on about fight 130 when he fought Turpin ... SRR is regarded as the number one pfp of all time by most experts ... You must be about Arum's age ... GGG is great, but is far from the #1 GOAT that you and a couple others seem to think. Its like someone saying they saw Ali in the mid and late 70's and he wasn't that good

That's a lot of emotional crap and BS you just wrote...do you need a crying towel??? LaMotta was a super hittable punching bag and lost a ton of fights. He had a KO ratio of 28% so he was no puncher either. He knocked Robinson down and beat him in 1 fight as terrible as he was .... Robinson wasn't 130 for Turpin. Don't talk like and idiot .... Golovkin WANTED to fight Ward but his coach Abel Sanchez wanted an acclimation fight at 168 FIRST!!! They tried to get 168 acclimation fights with Rodriguez, Oosthuizen, Chavez, and Froch at 168. All those fights were mysteriously scuttled. Ward wants THREE (3) acclimation fights before he fights Kovalev and Golovkin can't have ONE (1)??? .... Ward was a HUGE Super Middleweight and Golovkin is a small Middleweight. But Golovkin will DIFINITELY fight Ward in a few years and beat him easy at 175 and beat Kovalev too .... Robinson fought til he was past 40 and Golovkin can do the same. He had 350 amateur fights so he got a very late start as a pro. Then you have all the duckers like Martinez, Cotto, and Canelo who slowed down GGG's progress. The powers that be are trying to age GGG so they can get him beat .... If GGG fought 20 times in a year like Robinson did some years he'd have 200 fights by now. But he doesn't knock over 20 bums to pad his record and then lose to a good fighter like Robinson did .... A boxer's record in Title Defense is more important than his overall record because it's tougher to fight bums in Title Fights. Robinson's record in Middleweight Title defenses is 3-3 with 2 KO's and GGG's is 16-0 with 16 KO's .... If Robinson had such a masterful jab and footwork as Golovkin has, why did SRR LOSE to such unskilled swingers as LaMotta, Fullmer, Jones, Basilio, Turpin, and Pender??? .... Boxing Experts are full of crap. They never boxed and their blatherings are laughable .... I'm not as old as Bob Arum is. He's older than dirt .... I didn't say GGG was the GOAT but he's the top Middleweight .... Ali lost to the much shorter and smaller Joe Frazier (a wide-open walk-in left hooker) and to the very hittable and chinny Ken Norton when he was much younger than Triple-G is today. Ali wasn't as consistent, disciplined or as astute a trainer as GGG is and neither was Sugar Ray Robinson... That's why they started falling off a lot earlier... GGG HAS to be disciplined because he's not an American, he's a Kazakh and it's been much tougher for him fighting the Boxing Establishment ... Ali was my hero as a kid because I was dead against the stupid Viet Nam War. So I think Ali's a great human being but he wasn't the best Heavyweight ever. He was a little light on defense and punching power.

So you were a kid when Ali lost his licence for refusing to go to Vietnam, but you were also ringside for SRR's prime, care to explain that pal?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Kalan wrote:
That's a lot of emotional crap and BS you just wrote...do you need a crying towel??? LaMotta was a super hittable punching bag and lost a ton of fights. He had a KO ratio of 28% so he was no puncher either. He knocked Robinson down and beat him in 1 fight as terrible as he was .... Robinson wasn't 130 for Turpin. Don't talk like and idiot .... Golovkin WANTED to fight Ward but his coach Abel Sanchez wanted an acclimation fight at 168 FIRST!!! They tried to get 168 acclimation fights with Rodriguez, Oosthuizen, Chavez, and Froch at 168. All those fights were mysteriously scuttled. Ward wants THREE (3) acclimation fights before he fights Kovalev and Golovkin can't have ONE (1)??? .... Ward was a HUGE Super Middleweight and Golovkin is a small Middleweight. But Golovkin will DIFINITELY fight Ward in a few years and beat him easy at 175 and beat Kovalev too .... Robinson fought til he was past 40 and Golovkin can do the same. He had 350 amateur fights so he got a very late start as a pro. Then you have all the duckers like Martinez, Cotto, and Canelo who slowed down GGG's progress. The powers that be are trying to age GGG so they can get him beat .... If GGG fought 20 times in a year like Robinson did some years he'd have 200 fights by now. But he doesn't knock over 20 bums to pad his record and then lose to a good fighter like Robinson did .... A boxer's record in Title Defense is more important than his overall record because it's tougher to fight bums in Title Fights. Robinson's record in Middleweight Title defenses is 3-3 with 2 KO's and GGG's is 16-0 with 16 KO's .... If Robinson had such a masterful jab and footwork as Golovkin has, why did SRR LOSE to such unskilled swingers as LaMotta, Fullmer, Jones, Basilio, Turpin, and Pender??? .... Boxing Experts are full of crap. They never boxed and their blatherings are laughable .... I'm not as old as Bob Arum is. He's older than dirt .... I didn't say GGG was the GOAT but he's the top Middleweight .... Ali lost to the much shorter and smaller Joe Frazier (a wide-open walk-in left hooker) and to the very hittable and chinny Ken Norton when he was much younger than Triple-G is today. Ali wasn't as consistent, disciplined or as astute a trainer as GGG is and neither was Sugar Ray Robinson... That's why they started falling off a lot earlier... GGG HAS to be disciplined because he's not an American, he's a Kazakh and it's been much tougher for him fighting the Boxing Establishment ... Ali was my hero as a kid because I was dead against the stupid Viet Nam War. So I think Ali's a great human being but he wasn't the best Heavyweight ever. He was a little light on defense and punching power.

So you were a kid when Ali lost his licence for refusing to go to Vietnam, but you were also ringside for SRR's prime, care to explain that pal?

No way that poster is over 18.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: you were a kid when Ali lost his licence for refusing to go to Vietnam, but you were also ringside for SRR's prime, care to explain that pal?

Kalan wrote:OOPS that reposting was an error...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: you were a kid when Ali lost his licence for refusing to go to Vietnam, but you were also ringside for SRR's prime, care to explain that pal?

I never said I was ringside... Many of Robinson's fights were broadcast live and I saw many of them. My dad was a huge Boxing fan and we watched live Boxing on TV in the 50's from the time I was 4 or 5.. I remember going with my dad to the theater to watch a couple Robinson fights that broadcast live over closed circuit.

The Gulf of Tokin Incident happened in 1964, if you remember your history. It was used like "Weapons of Mass Destruction" in Iraq to get America involved in Viet Nam, a war that meant billions of dollars in defense industry contracts. I always dreamed of being a soldier so I enlisted in the Marines right after high school. I consider that a kid. Ali started speaking against our Viet Nam involvement about 1965. Because he also joined the Black Muslims before his rematch with Liston and changed his name, he was hated by many but became a hero of mine. My dad told me Viet Nam was a phony war manufactured to enrich the military industrial complex. He advised I not get involved in. He said Viet Nam would become a disaster and disgrace for the US. I became a conscientious objector and Ali became a big anti-war hero.

runner_phob wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

ikorolev wrote:
Of course, it isn't. But if a good MW fights a good WW, who would win ?

That's size, not athleticism. You're getting confused.

No, he is not. A current good welterweight is about as strong and durable as middleweights from 50s, and they are often about the same size.

runner_phob wrote:People are comparing SRR (and not Conteh) with Golovkin. My point is that Golovkin would be so much stronger that it would be like MW fighting a WW.

Counter-puncher wrote:

runner_phob wrote:People are comparing SRR (and not Conteh) with Golovkin. My point is that Golovkin would be so much stronger that it would be like MW fighting a WW.

In which case, I apologise for my rudeness.

I thought you were that other guy, kalan, whos a real idiot.

Kalan wrote:OOPS that reposting was an error...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: you were a kid when Ali lost his licence for refusing to go to Vietnam, but you were also ringside for SRR's prime, care to explain that pal?

I never said I was ringside... Many of Robinson's fights were broadcast live and I saw many of them. My dad was a huge Boxing fan and we watched live Boxing on TV in the 50's from the time I was 4 or 5.. I remember going with my dad to the theater to watch a couple Robinson fights that broadcast live over closed circuit.

The Gulf of Tokin Incident happened in 1964, if you remember your history. It was used like "Weapons of Mass Destruction" in Iraq to get America involved in Viet Nam, a war that meant billions of dollars in defense industry contracts. I always dreamed of being a soldier so I enlisted in the Marines right after high school. I consider that a kid. Ali started speaking against our Viet Nam involvement about 1965. Because he also joined the Black Muslims before his rematch with Liston and changed his name, he was hated by many but became a hero of mine. My dad told me Viet Nam was a phony war manufactured to enrich the military industrial complex. He advised I not get involved in. He said Viet Nam would become a disaster and disgrace for the US. I became a conscientious objector and Ali became a big anti-war hero.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

runner_phob wrote:People are comparing SRR (and not Conteh) with Golovkin. My point is that Golovkin would be so much stronger that it would be like MW fighting a WW.

In which case, I apologise for my rudeness.

I thought you were that other guy, kalan, whos a real idiot.

He's an idiot too. God knows Robinson never fought any Middleweights when he was a Welterweight.

jewboypgh wrote:GGG is the best in the biz. Ain't no one close except kovalev

runner_phob wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
In which case, I apologise for my rudeness.

I thought you were that other guy, kalan, whos a real idiot.

He's an idiot too. God knows Robinson never fought any Middleweights when he was a Welterweight.

You are an idiot if you are insisting that Robinson would beat Golovkin.

kidbazooka1 wrote:

runner_phob wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He's an idiot too. God knows Robinson never fought any Middleweights when he was a Welterweight.

You are an idiot if you are insisting that Robinson would beat Golovkin.

Are you being sarcastic?

If not then my god you're one stupid son of a bitch.