BoxRec

BoxBuzz wrote:I know non cohesive when I see it. I invented it

You sure did... You don't absorb knowledge very cohesively. You promised to study the Valero and Armstrong fights that are on line... and I knew you were lying.. But if you did that with an objective eye, and not looking for something negative for Valero and positive for Armstrong, but just approached it open mindedly you would see that Valero could box and punch and was a great finisher... In contrast, you would see Armstrong was a crude swinger who led with his head. He butted, pushed, and levered with his head, which are all illegal head use... and got punched a lot by guys who weren't nearly as skilled or hard punching as Valero... That means he lost a lot of fights, even to guys who had a lot of losses themselves.

Valero's life and winning streak might have continued indefinitely if he hadn't suffered extensive brain damage in a severe motorcycle accident in 2001... Part his skull was removed so blood clots could be removed from his brain.. This delayed the start of his boxing career for 18 months as he found it very hard to get licensed because his brain scan had abnormalities... People said his personality changed after the accident. Where he was generally friendly and mild mannered - he became quiet, moody and sometimes violent after the brain surgery. I prefer not to judge people who have violent episodes. Those people are not making rational choices all the time ... and nobody knows what demons they're fighting.

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I know non cohesive when I see it. I invented it

You sure did... You don't absorb knowledge very cohesively. You promised to study the Valero and Armstrong fights that are on line... and I knew you were lying.. But if you did that with an objective eye, and not looking for something negative for Valero and positive for Armstrong, but just approached it open mindedly you would see that Valero could box and punch and was a great finisher... In contrast, you would see Armstrong was a crude swinger who led with his head. He butted, pushed, and levered with his head, which are all illegal head use... and got punched a lot by guys who weren't nearly as skilled or hard punching as Valero... That means he lost a lot of fights, even to guys who had a lot of losses themselves.

Valero's life and winning streak might have continued indefinitely if he hadn't suffered extensive brain damage in a severe motorcycle accident in 2001... Part his skull was removed so blood clots could be removed from his brain.. This delayed the start of his boxing career for 18 months as he found it very hard to get licensed because his brain scan had abnormalities... People said his personality changed after the accident. Where he was generally friendly and mild mannered - he became quiet, moody and sometimes violent after the brain surgery. I prefer not to judge people who have violent episodes. Those people are not making rational choices all the time ... and nobody knows what demons they're fighting.

Indefinitely?

Valero was a violent drug addict before he turned pro. You clearly don't know the first thing about the guy, apart from what's in boxrec.

For a drug addict and a guy who had extensive brain surgery, making it difficult to get a boxing license delaying his career a long time, Edwin Valero did extremely well, didn't he??? ... I mean Valero won ALL his fight and won them ALL by KO... How many name fighters EVER did that???

Valero was also 6 for 6 with 6 KO's in World Title Defenses in 2 different weight divisions -- Sugar Ray Robinson also won a total of 6 total World Title Defenses in 2 weight divisions. So that puts Valero in elite company record wise... But Valero knocked all of his challengers out. Robinson couldn't do that and lost to 3 of them.

But Robinson did white wash the crude, and unskilled Henry Armstrong ... It was a ridiculous mismatch.

Kalan wrote:For a drug addict and a guy who had extensive brain surgery, making it difficult to get a boxing license delaying his career a long time, Edwin Valero did extremely well, didn't he??? ... I mean Valero won ALL his fight and won them ALL by KO... How many name fighters EVER did that???

Valero was also 6 for 6 with 6 KO's in World Title Defenses in 2 different weight divisions -- Sugar Ray Robinson also won a total of 6 total World Title Defenses in 2 weight divisions. So that puts Valero in elite company record wise... But Valero knocked all of his challengers out. Robinson couldn't do that and lost to 3 of them.

But Robinson did white wash the crude, and unskilled Henry Armstrong ... It was a ridiculous mismatch.

You are simply insane.

You're simply ignorant, stupid, and a ridiculous idiot.

Who are the 3 people not named Kalan who are stupid enough to think Valero beats one of the greatest fighters ever?

Kalan wrote:You're simply ignorant, stupid, and a ridiculous idiot.

Why, that's rather harsh. I admit I'm not as tall or as accomplished with the ladies as Wilt was, but I'm not a bad guy.


Did you know that Armstrong was shot to pieces by the time Robinson carried him? I suppose the database didn't mention it...

gilgamesh wrote:Who are the 3 people not named Kalan who are stupid enough to think Valero beats one of the greatest fighters ever?

Who's the idiot who thinks a guy with a 19-4-4 with 9 KO's fighting terrible cherry picks at the time (Armstrong) beats a guy who's 27-0 with 27 KO's who's fighting the best fighters at his weight in the world (Valero) ... On the other hand who's dumb enough to think Austin Trout beats Jermall Charlo??? Or is so blind he scored that fight a draw??? ... Gilgamesh

Tomasino wrote:Did you know that Armstrong was shot to pieces by the time Robinson carried him?

Why does a guy get shot to pieces unless he's getting punched and beaten a lot??? ... What were Armstrong's excuses for his other 20 losses??? Losing to guys like Davey Abad who had 35 losses when he beat Armstrong and had a career KO ratio of 9% ... NINE PERCENT???? GEE WHIZ

You can find plenty of reasons to why Armstrong would be washed up -- just by watching his videos and see him walk into punches.

Kalan wrote:

Tomasino wrote:Did you know that Armstrong was shot to pieces by the time Robinson carried him?

Why does a guy get shot to pieces unless he's getting punched and beaten a lot??? ... What were Armstrong's excuses for his other 20 losses??? Losing to guys like Davey Abad who had 35 losses when he beat Armstrong and had a career KO ratio of 9% ... NINE PERCENT???? GEE WHIZ

You can find plenty of reasons to why Armstrong would be washed up -- just by watching his videos and see him walk into punches.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 4289&hl=en

This is an article written at the time. Have a look, learn something.

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tomasino wrote:Did you know that Armstrong was shot to pieces by the time Robinson carried him?

Why does a guy get shot to pieces unless he's getting punched and beaten a lot??? ... What were Armstrong's excuses for his other 20 losses??? Losing to guys like Davey Abad who had 35 losses when he beat Armstrong and had a career KO ratio of 9% ... NINE PERCENT???? GEE WHIZ

You can find plenty of reasons to why Armstrong would be washed up -- just by watching his videos and see him walk into punches.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 4289&hl=en

This is an article written at the time. Have a look, learn something.

YOU have a lot to learn.. I already knew all that.. I knew the crowd booed Robinson-Armstrong and it was a horrible stinky fight.. At 32 Armstrong wasn't old.. He just got punched a lot whenever he fought a decent fighter which wasn't often... After the Robinson fight Armstrong kept fighting easy victims.. He went on an 11 fight winning streak fighting the same kind of cherry picks he usually fought. Gennady Golovkin is 34 and he's had 385 fights... over 200 of his amateur fights were fought at a very high level and 17 of his pro fights were World Title Fights.. 80% of Armstrong's fights were push-overs and nothing more than glorified sparring sessions to pad his record.. Terence Crawford, is a 2-Division World Champion and fights the toughest guys available. He would have fought Pacquiao instead of Hank Lundy if Pacman wasn't afraid of him.. He's just another modern day boxer who would have destroyed the super hittable Armstrong.

Poor boy passed out from the effort of trying to think... Tsk tsk

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Who are the 3 people not named Kalan who are stupid enough to think Valero beats one of the greatest fighters ever?

[Who's the idiot who thinks a guy with a 19-4-4 with 9 KO's fighting terrible cherry picks at the time (Armstrong) beats a guy who's 27-0 with 27 KO's who's fighting the best fighters at his weight in the world (Valero)]

Was Valero fighting the best fighters in the world? You make it sound like Valero was fighting world class fighters from day one when in his 15th fight he was fighting a guy with a 1-5 record. The best fighters in and around Edwin's weight at the time were Barrera, Marquez, Soto, Cassamayor, Juan Diaz and Pacquaio. I don't remember Valero fighting any of these guys. The best fighter he fought was DeMarco which is a fair bit shy of the best that Armstrong fought.

It is a measure of the man that we are talking about Armstrong 60 odd years after he last fought and most likely he will still be talked about 60 years from now. A measure of his greatness in the ring. Valero is hardly remembered 6 years after his death.

Ketchel wrote:

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Who are the 3 people not named Kalan who are stupid enough to think Valero beats one of the greatest fighters ever?

[Who's the idiot who thinks a guy with a 19-4-4 with 9 KO's fighting terrible cherry picks at the time (Armstrong) beats a guy who's 27-0 with 27 KO's who's fighting the best fighters at his weight in the world (Valero)]

Was Valero fighting the best fighters in the world? You make it sound like Valero was fighting world class fighters from day one when in his 15th fight he was fighting a guy with a 1-5 record. The best fighters in and around Edwin's weight at the time were Barrera, Marquez, Soto, Cassamayor, Juan Diaz and Pacquaio. I don't remember Valero fighting any of these guys. The best fighter he fought was DeMarco which is a fair bit shy of the best that Armstrong fought.

It is a measure of the man that we are talking about Armstrong 60 odd years after he last fought and most likely he will still be talked about 60 years from now. A measure of his greatness in the ring. Valero is hardly remembered 6 years after his death.

When Valero was undefeated World Champion Casamayor was getting knocked out by Marquez and beaten by Guerrero... Barrera was getting beaten and stopped by soft chinned punching bag Amir Khan... Valero tried to get a fight with Marquez, who was a bigger name, but JMM was more interested in Pacquiao and Mayweather... Valero tried to get a fight with Diaz. But Diaz lost to Marquez, Nate Campbell, and Paulie Malignaggi when Valero was Lightweight Champion. I’m not sure how much that would have helped him.

Valero is well remembered by many fans such as I.. But as far as his FAME goes... Fame doesn't prove you're the best fighter.. Amir Khan is more famous than several Welterweights who would trash him, but he won't fight.. Mike McCallum has less fame than many of the guys who ducked him.. Floyd Mayweather is one of the most famous boxers EVER.. Floyd wanted NO part of Undefeated World Welterweight Champions Kell Brook or Keith Thurman for World Welterweight Title Unification Fights .. He cherry picked Andre Berto who lost 3 of his previous 6 fights while getting knocked down 6 times... Canelo is one of the more famous boxers today... He trashed his World Title Belt rather than test his skills versus GGG.

Kalan wrote: Barrera was getting beaten and stopped by soft chinned punching bag Amir Khan...

that fight went to the cards, because it was stopped due to a cut which caused by a headbut... you utter, utter, fucken moron, too stupid to realise when you are talking on grounds of utter ignorance. like when you said nobody ever stopped Michael Nun... and so on, you fucken clown.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Kalan wrote: Barrera was getting beaten and stopped by soft chinned punching bag Amir Khan...

that fight went to the cards, because it was stopped due to a cut which caused by a headbut... you utter, utter, fucken moron, too stupid to realise when you are talking on grounds of utter ignorance. like when you said nobody ever stopped Michael Nun... and so on, you fucken clown.

May I caution us all, that simply because someone has a strange, unusual, perhaps unsupportable (linear/logically speaking) opinion, or even group of opinions, does not give us the right to spew expletives in their direction. Moron? Well that's a clinical term for a specific rating on the French authored IQ spectrum. So I'll allow it. And Clown is of course an entertainer...no problem.


However, whether said Moron's or Clown's are engaging in fornication, is none of our business.


Let's keep the language out of the gutter. French words of course, all always welcome.

My apologies to you

Counter-puncher wrote:My apologies to you

Well, Clowns and/or Morons are always testing us. It's difficult to remain calm in such situations.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Kalan wrote: Barrera was getting beaten and stopped by soft chinned punching bag Amir Khan...

that fight went to the cards, because it was stopped due to a cut which caused by a headbut... you utter, utter, fucken moron, too stupid to realise when you are talking on grounds of utter ignorance. like when you said nobody ever stopped Michael Nun... and so on, you fucken clown.

You're a filthy idiot with nothing but sht flying out of your ignorant face... Barrera was getting the trash boxed out him by Khan... Nunn was never stopped, undefeated, number one ranked in the world P4P, and highly favored to win WHEN he faced James Toney.

Ouch, that language just cost you......

Strike one. Cmon, we are just tossing some opinions around, let's keep it civil. I'll stop commenting, if you feel your not up to a bit of give and take with me.

I don't want to stress your pacemaker. But you, we, me, all have to keep off the personal stuff.

You're wearing a pacemaker... I don't need one because I let it my emotions run instead of bottling them up with a cork... Worked for Bobby Knight. Most guys my age take 7 meds a day because they hold everything in and literally EXPLODE!!!! ... I don't take a single med and am 100% healthy. So my system of kicking ass and taking names must work.

BTW... NONE of you guys have SERIOUSLY studied Henry Armstrong and Edwin Valero's boxing matches on YouTube.com... If you did you would find you your utter amazement that I'm 100% CORRECT about everything I'm talking about.

Weird, I like Bobby Knight.

Bobby studied recorded games... He would go over them with his coaches and players in case he missed something. This is important for Boxing too

Kalan wrote:Bobby studied recorded games... He would go over them with his coaches and players in case he missed something. This is important for Boxing too

One other thing about Bobby Knight, he gathered facts first, THEN formed solid sensible opinions, THEN constructed/engineered plans.


Some folks begin with opinions, and attempt to gather ONLY the facts that support that opinion, while their "plan" consists of fending off any/all other info that comes into their consciousness, in order to defend their sanctimonious opinion.

Have you ever noticed that in some folks?

You probably met Bobby, and like him as perhaps a person. I probably would to.

But I like his style and method of reasoning and developmental thinking.