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Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 03 Aug 2017, 12:27
by gilgamesh
Loki wrote:gilgamesh wrote:ValMar wrote:
Relaxing writing is a great pleasure for me, but experts expect to be paid, well paid......
I don't think there are many "well paid" Boxing writers. I may be wrong on that, but I'd genuinely be curious to know what some of the biggest names in Boxing Journalism make. It probably ain't as much as you think.
Burt Sugar did OK and so does Steve Bunce.
Didn't Sugar write about Baseball as well?
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 03 Aug 2017, 12:47
by Loki
gilgamesh wrote:Loki wrote:gilgamesh wrote:
I don't think there are many "well paid" Boxing writers. I may be wrong on that, but I'd genuinely be curious to know what some of the biggest names in Boxing Journalism make. It probably ain't as much as you think.
Burt Sugar did OK and so does Steve Bunce.
Didn't Sugar write about Baseball as well?
He did, but predominantly boxing. I think he also wrote about Harry Houdini.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 02:17
by KiwiRider
Time to update this thread.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 02:21
by KiwiRider
My 2021 Current Top 5
1, Tyson Fury
2, Erroll Spence Jr
3, Terence Crawford
4, Chris Eubank Jr
5, Gary Russell Jr
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 03:15
by DrDuke
1. Andrade
2. Hrgovic
3. Luis Ortiz
4. Spence
5. Crawford
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 03:38
by gregregegg
Of Current fighters i would say who have still had outstanding carrers but are falling short of where they could be.
1, Fury: arguably a heavyweight that could of beat anyone from any era and only has an old klitchco, wilder, and chisora on his resume.
2, Mikey Garcia: 2.5 years off in 2014, then a weird move to welterweight for a cash grab (unless he though he could beat spence i guess, but dreammming there.), right when 135 was becoming one of the funnest division in boxing.
3, Garry russle Jr: world class tallent, but since losing to loma not interested in staying active, or fighting the best.
4, Crawford: Weight bully at 135, Beat the worst 140lb div ever and has now spent 3.5 years at welter without a big meaningfull fight. But all that aside is a true p4p tallent who should have an unscritinisable resume, but doesnt
5, Artur Beterbiev: Seems like a rock solid tallent, although his only true class win has a bit of an astrix for me. dont know if Oleksandr Gvozdyk heart was in it since the adonis stevens incedent. by 36 really should have more than 1 class name on his resume if he is half as good as people suggest.
Bonus 6: Ortiz, suposidly The slickest, crafyest, deadliest, cubanest southestpaw to ever defect... but i have my doubts.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 12:20
by AngryGoon38
Kalan wrote: ↑29 Nov 2016, 19:42
ValMar wrote:Kalan wrote:
Gamboa and Garcia had great potential ... But those others never did... For me, guys who could write their own ticket but seemed intent on tossing it up are: Tyson Fury... Mikey Garcia... Demetrius Andrade... Luis Ortiz... Billy Joe Saunders...Dmitry Pirog... and a lesser talent who doesn't make the most of it, Andre Dirrell.
Pirog ? To be blamed because of the injury ?
Willie Pep fought most of his career fights, 132 of 241, after he was crushed, and knocked cold in a plane accident, and spent 4 months in a body cast.. Doctors told him boxing was over for him.. How badly do you want to get back to it??? I think that's often the most important question.. If one doctor doesn't tell you what you need to hear, find one who will.. Now with really bad head injuries I can see doctors making a big deal out of it.. Rahman fought with a plate in his head because he went through his windshield and the guy's he plowed into... I'm not sure you want to do that.
Good Post. Don't forget Paz. The Docs told him that Boxing was out of the question, following that neck breaking car crash.
As far as wasted talent, obviously the previously mentioned boxers like Ayala, Ibeaubuchi, Valero, and Pavlik.
Tommy Morrison, Kirkland Laing, and dare I say, Butterbean as well. Had he managed to stay within 300 lbs, the Bean would've accomplished quite a bit more, as far as scoring piles of entertaining Ko's,even if only on the b and c grade circuit.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 13:15
by H8Usernames
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Nov 2016, 16:06
littlepug wrote:Mike Pérez, Kelly pavlik
Pavlik definitely gave away what could've been many more lucrative paydays by becoming a raging alcoholic off of one loss.
I'm not sure we've seen the last of Mike Perez yet.
Kinda think that Pavlik lacked the fundementals and skills to ever become anything great, alcaholism didn't help ofcourse but not alot was lost.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 09 Sep 2021, 13:19
by H8Usernames
One fight that annoyed me was David Reid vs Felix Trínidad. For a while there Reid was dominating Trínidad and with just a different attitude he could simply have put Felix away. Instead he opted to showboat and get messed up by Trínidad.
Ofcourse Reid wouldn't have had a much longer career with his eye and all but this one and Vargas plus maybe a few more he could have accomplished.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 10 Sep 2021, 02:00
by scallum2015
Wilfredo Benitez was so.gifted that i heard has bragging how he couldve won a World Championship at 15 or 16 yrs old. An old trainer i know who was part of his camp says Benitez never trained seriously.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 10 Sep 2021, 04:41
by Enlightened-One
Even though I can count to five, I couldn't clearly distinguish how much these guys potential were wasted, since most of them seem to be on a par!
• Adrien Broner
• Terence Crawford
• Demetrius Andrade
• Filip Hrgovic
• Artur Beterbiev
• Gilberto Ramirez
• Murat Gassiev (last three years)
I was tempted to mention Tyson Fury, but I feel he wasn’t entirely responsible for his mental health issues.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 10 Sep 2021, 07:22
by IRONFIST
Joan Guzman, the blighter!
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 10 Sep 2021, 07:31
by IRONFIST
I haven't heard that blighter's name for years, he was somewhat of a legend on another forum I was on
Overrated a bit like Ike Ibeabuchi in my opinion.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 10 Sep 2021, 10:28
by bennie
John Conteh. He threw away his best years (and messed up his right hand) trying to go it alone.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 17 Sep 2021, 21:27
by Jeff_lacy_ko
IRONFIST wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 07:22
Joan Guzman, the blighter!
Yeah he had a lot of talent
Casamayor was extremely talented... should have been a hofer but turned in some real stinkers
There are a slew of guys who aretalented but couldnt put it together consistently:
About 10 hw of the 80's
Victor ortiz
Zab judah
Broner
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 18 Sep 2021, 09:37
by Bandog
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 21:27
IRONFIST wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 07:22
Joan Guzman, the blighter!
Yeah he had a lot of talent
Casamayor was extremely talented... should have been a hofer but turned in some real stinkers
There are a slew of guys who aretalented but couldnt put it together consistently:
About 10 hw of the 80's
Victor ortiz
Zab judah
Broner
Honestly I think Broner exceeded his potential. 3 weight champion, right? Crazy if you think about it, because he isn't nearly as good as others that never reached that.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 18 Sep 2021, 11:21
by peter barlow
Andrade
Eubank JR
Jermall Charlo
M Garcia
Beterbiev
Callum Johnson
Rigondeaux
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 19 Sep 2021, 18:08
by squiggy
Bandog wrote: ↑18 Sep 2021, 09:37
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 21:27
IRONFIST wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 07:22
Joan Guzman, the blighter!
Yeah he had a lot of talent
Casamayor was extremely talented... should have been a hofer but turned in some real stinkers
There are a slew of guys who aretalented but couldnt put it together consistently:
About 10 hw of the 80's
Victor ortiz
Zab judah
Broner
Honestly I think Broner exceeded his potential. 3 weight champion, right? Crazy if you think about it, because he isn't nearly as good as others that never reached that.
Well, Broner was fighting in divisions alongside guys like Crawford, Mikey Garcia, Danny Garcia, Marquez, Gamboa, Flanagan, Matthysse -- and he fought and beat, uh, Allakhverdiev? Rees? DeMarco? I don't even remember who else.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 19 Sep 2021, 18:38
by Enlightened-One
squiggy wrote: ↑19 Sep 2021, 18:08
Bandog wrote: ↑18 Sep 2021, 09:37
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 21:27
Yeah he had a lot of talent
Casamayor was extremely talented... should have been a hofer but turned in some real stinkers
There are a slew of guys who aretalented but couldnt put it together consistently:
About 10 hw of the 80's
Victor ortiz
Zab judah
Broner
Honestly I think Broner exceeded his potential. 3 weight champion, right? Crazy if you think about it, because he isn't nearly as good as others that never reached that.
Well, Broner was fighting in divisions alongside guys like Crawford, Mikey Garcia, Danny Garcia, Marquez, Gamboa, Flanagan, Matthysse -- and he fought and beat, uh, Allakhverdiev? Rees? DeMarco? I don't even remember who else.
You need to do your research, because some of the names you’ve listed are irrelevant.
Broner's resume for the first 5½ years of his career (before his 24th birthday) was truly impressive, his critics only seem to recall what's transpired since 2015, when his in-ring talents were declining.
Adrien Broner was once classed amongst the top-six of The RING's pound-for-pound ratings, he's engaged in ten world championship bouts, faced ten world champions and also captured world titles in four weight divisions.
Even if you severely dislike the guy, and I’m not his biggest fan either, it’s impossible to deny that he was once considered one of the best fighters on the planet.
Like him or loathe him, there’s not a lot of fighters competing today with Broner’s resume.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 19 Sep 2021, 18:40
by margaret thatcher
his most impressive win was over antonio demarco
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 19 Sep 2021, 19:05
by squiggy
Yes, it looks like I forgot... Ponce de Leon. You're right, that puts it over the top to one of history's finest resumes.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 19 Sep 2021, 19:59
by KiwiRider
Bandog wrote: ↑18 Sep 2021, 09:37
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 21:27
IRONFIST wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 07:22
Joan Guzman, the blighter!
Yeah he had a lot of talent
Casamayor was extremely talented... should have been a hofer but turned in some real stinkers
There are a slew of guys who aretalented but couldnt put it together consistently:
About 10 hw of the 80's
Victor ortiz
Zab judah
Broner
Honestly I think Broner exceeded his potential. 3 weight champion, right? Crazy if you think about it, because he isn't nearly as good as others that never reached that.
He totally over achieved.
The 3 weight champion is true but not HOF stuff.
Thing is, I would say he wasted
some of his prime- not by being inactive so much- but by being naughty/stupid and not working as hard as he should have.
If he had taken better control of his personal life, and boxing life, I feel he could have been so much more at the lighter weights that suited his stature.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 20 Sep 2021, 04:54
by Ross
gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Nov 2016, 16:04
Your list gives you away as somebody that hasn't followed Boxing long.
1. Tony Ayala Jr.
2. Ricky Womack
3. Ike Ibeabuchi (though his potential is often exaggerated he certainly had more in him than he ever had the chance to give)
Just a few examples
I thought Tony Ayala Jnr would be in the top three and i like Womack (also jail time an suiside ?) and Ile also jail time.
There was heavily tattooed fighter - Hector Lopez i think in and out of jail ended up dead i think
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 10:11
by digzee
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Sep 2021, 18:38
squiggy wrote: ↑19 Sep 2021, 18:08
Bandog wrote: ↑18 Sep 2021, 09:37
Honestly I think Broner exceeded his potential. 3 weight champion, right? Crazy if you think about it, because he isn't nearly as good as others that never reached that.
Well, Broner was fighting in divisions alongside guys like Crawford, Mikey Garcia, Danny Garcia, Marquez, Gamboa, Flanagan, Matthysse -- and he fought and beat, uh, Allakhverdiev? Rees? DeMarco? I don't even remember who else.
You need to do your research, because some of the names you’ve listed are irrelevant.
Broner's resume for the first 5½ years of his career (before his 24th birthday) was truly impressive, his critics only seem to recall what's transpired since 2015, when his in-ring talents were declining.
Adrien Broner was once classed amongst the top-six of The RING's pound-for-pound ratings, he's engaged in ten world championship bouts, faced ten world champions and also captured world titles in four weight divisions.
Even if you severely dislike the guy, and I’m not his biggest fan either, it’s impossible to deny that he was once considered one of the best fighters on the planet.
Like him or loathe him, there’s not a lot of fighters competing today with Broner’s resume.
No, no it isn't. He is the biggest weight bully boxing has ever seen. His skills never diminished he just found his level when he fought guys his own weight.
Re: They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list
Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 10:57
by Enlightened-One
digzee wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 10:11
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Sep 2021, 18:38
Broner's resume for the first 5½ years of his career (before his 24th birthday) was truly impressive, his critics only seem to recall what's transpired since 2015, when his in-ring talents were declining.
No, no it isn't. He is the biggest weight bully boxing has ever seen. His skills never diminished he just found his level when he fought guys his own weight.
OK, fair enough. If that's how you feel.
Out of interest though, how many fighters competing today can you name achieved more in the sport of boxing than Adrien Broner did prior to their 24th birthday?
For the record, I’m not asking you to like the guy, instead all I’d like you to do is to provide an objective/honest assessment that isn’t based on personal animosity.