BoxRec

Graham Brett wrote:A guy i knowe who used to post on here ( i think he was called knockout artist) told me that Hilton was boss eyed after being beaten up with a baseball bat.

Anyone know if this is true?

Can't confirm that but I have heard it mentioned that he is now blind in his left eye. And yeah, Jimmy Ellis was in his training camp.

silkov wrote: I've read a fair bit about your grandfather and he was certainly a great boxer who had a remarkable though short career (short in years not fight!) I know he was fighting top liners in 20 rounders when just 15/16. Everyone who knows there stuff here knows that many of the fighters records are incomplete hence the low amount of fights for many.
For your Grandfather to be remembered by a boxing historian such as Gilbert Odd he must have been something special, its just a shame that he was rushed and burnt out otherwise he may well have been a title holder.

Cheers, was starting to think I was the only one on here who realises these early records are vastly incomplete!

He actually never fought a 20 rounder, although most of his contests aged 15/16 were 15 rounders. I think 20 rounders had stopped by the mid 1920s, except for maybe a title fight.

Like you say it's a shame he wasn't given time to grow and handled more carefully. Instead he was forced to starve to make ridiculous weights and booked to fight at every possible opportunity against the toughest of opposition. Had he fought as an adult it would probably have been at middleweight. He said himself the only fighter from this era he might have had any trouble with was McAvoy.

Did you read something by Odd on him? If so, would love to get a copy.

Found a great quote about him from a 1929 paper:

"A certain press critic when eulogising his performance against Dick Corbett, stated that Daly appeared to know all there is to know about the boxing game already and went on to express a certain curiosity as to his future. This of course, is on the laps of the gods, but we can well believe that Daly will go a very long way indeed. He has the fastest left hand seen anywhere since the days of Tom McCormick, while the jabs and shots he deals out with it are of snappier and consequently more effective quality. When that left has been endowed with stronger driving muscle, Nipper Pat is going to be one of the most dangerous opponents any boxer of any weight could have to tackle.

He has all the assets a boxer can need, as enumerated by Mr. George Bernard Shaw in a recent pronouncement. He has the ability to select almost instantaneously the right move to make at the right time. He may lack the killing force of the great fighters, but this will develop in due course. Mr. Bernard Shaw cited all the above qualities as being instinctive, but he has more than these and has them, uncannily, in one so young."

*Alex* wrote:Cheers, was starting to think I was the only one on here who realises these early records are vastly incomplete!

Don't worry mate, your not the only one.

Obviously I`ve read as much about your grandfather as Silkov because I`d never heard of him before also, but I won`t pretend I do, and I meant no disrespect to him but its just his age and relative obscurity of most of his opponents made me wonder if as said before it was more amateur contest than pro.

I apologize if it came across disrespectful but I just thought your claim that most of his opponents having over a hundred fights was pretty far fetched, sure I like most on this site know that old records are alot of times incomplete, but most of them having over a hundred fights is a little too generous.

And by closer to amateur fights than pro I mean this in the way of novice fighters and not experienced boxers, once again if its come across disrespectful I apologize.

tonyevs wrote:Obviously I`ve read as much about your grandfather as Silkov because I`d never heard of him before also, but I won`t pretend I do, and I meant no disrespect to him but its just his age and relative obscurity of most of his opponents made me wonder if as said before it was more amateur contest than pro.

I apologize if it came across disrespectful but I just thought your claim that most of his opponents having over a hundred fights was pretty far fetched, sure I like most on this site know that old records are alot of times incomplete, but most of them having over a hundred fights is a little too generous.

And by closer to amateur fights than pro I mean this in the way of novice fighters and not experienced boxers, once again if its come across disrespectful I apologize.

Actually mate I think I've read considerably more about Pat than you have and so know something about what I'm saying. To be honest your statements on the old timers shows that you have read very little about them and I really think you should read more about these fighters and look at their available records before passing judgement upon them.
To call Daly a novice fighter is quite simply not only disrespectful but laughable I'm afraid!... 8)

*Alex* wrote:

silkov wrote: I've read a fair bit about your grandfather and he was certainly a great boxer who had a remarkable though short career (short in years not fight!) I know he was fighting top liners in 20 rounders when just 15/16. Everyone who knows there stuff here knows that many of the fighters records are incomplete hence the low amount of fights for many.
For your Grandfather to be remembered by a boxing historian such as Gilbert Odd he must have been something special, its just a shame that he was rushed and burnt out otherwise he may well have been a title holder.

Cheers, was starting to think I was the only one on here who realises these early records are vastly incomplete!

He actually never fought a 20 rounder, although most of his contests aged 15/16 were 15 rounders. I think 20 rounders had stopped by the mid 1920s, except for maybe a title fight.

Like you say it's a shame he wasn't given time to grow and handled more carefully. Instead he was forced to starve to make ridiculous weights and booked to fight at every possible opportunity against the toughest of opposition. Had he fought as an adult it would probably have been at middleweight. He said himself the only fighter from this era he might have had any trouble with was McAvoy.

Did you read something by Odd on him? If so, would love to get a copy.

Found a great quote about him from a 1929 paper:

"A certain press critic when eulogising his performance against Dick Corbett, stated that Daly appeared to know all there is to know about the boxing game already and went on to express a certain curiosity as to his future. This of course, is on the laps of the gods, but we can well believe that Daly will go a very long way indeed. He has the fastest left hand seen anywhere since the days of Tom McCormick, while the jabs and shots he deals out with it are of snappier and consequently more effective quality. When that left has been endowed with stronger driving muscle, Nipper Pat is going to be one of the most dangerous opponents any boxer of any weight could have to tackle.

He has all the assets a boxer can need, as enumerated by Mr. George Bernard Shaw in a recent pronouncement. He has the ability to select almost instantaneously the right move to make at the right time. He may lack the killing force of the great fighters, but this will develop in due course. Mr. Bernard Shaw cited all the above qualities as being instinctive, but he has more than these and has them, uncannily, in one so young."

Its a growing problem I'm afraid that many self proclaimed boxing 'experts' will look at you funny if you mention how oftem the oldtimers used to fight... so we are probably a dwindling force!.
The Gilbert Odd article I mentioned is in one of my Boxing News papers from the 70s I think... I will dig it out and send you a photocopy if you like... it may take me a while to locate it though.
I have a lot of Boxing News from the 40s to the 60s too and recall reading some other articles on your Grandfather and will try and dig them out too. I've certainly come across quite alot about your grandfather in the Boxing Papers I've read so it shows that he made a strong impact on those who saw him.

*Alex* wrote:

silkov wrote: I've read a fair bit about your grandfather and he was certainly a great boxer who had a remarkable though short career (short in years not fight!) I know he was fighting top liners in 20 rounders when just 15/16. Everyone who knows there stuff here knows that many of the fighters records are incomplete hence the low amount of fights for many.
For your Grandfather to be remembered by a boxing historian such as Gilbert Odd he must have been something special, its just a shame that he was rushed and burnt out otherwise he may well have been a title holder.

Cheers, was starting to think I was the only one on here who realises these early records are vastly incomplete!

He actually never fought a 20 rounder, although most of his contests aged 15/16 were 15 rounders. I think 20 rounders had stopped by the mid 1920s, except for maybe a title fight.

Like you say it's a shame he wasn't given time to grow and handled more carefully. Instead he was forced to starve to make ridiculous weights and booked to fight at every possible opportunity against the toughest of opposition. Had he fought as an adult it would probably have been at middleweight. He said himself the only fighter from this era he might have had any trouble with was McAvoy.

Did you read something by Odd on him? If so, would love to get a copy.

Found a great quote about him from a 1929 paper:

"A certain press critic when eulogising his performance against Dick Corbett, stated that Daly appeared to know all there is to know about the boxing game already and went on to express a certain curiosity as to his future. This of course, is on the laps of the gods, but we can well believe that Daly will go a very long way indeed. He has the fastest left hand seen anywhere since the days of Tom McCormick, while the jabs and shots he deals out with it are of snappier and consequently more effective quality. When that left has been endowed with stronger driving muscle, Nipper Pat is going to be one of the most dangerous opponents any boxer of any weight could have to tackle.

He has all the assets a boxer can need, as enumerated by Mr. George Bernard Shaw in a recent pronouncement. He has the ability to select almost instantaneously the right move to make at the right time. He may lack the killing force of the great fighters, but this will develop in due course. Mr. Bernard Shaw cited all the above qualities as being instinctive, but he has more than these and has them, uncannily, in one so young."

Its a shame your grandfather didn't write his autobiography as it would have made a fascinating read...

tonyevs wrote:Obviously I`ve read as much about your grandfather as Silkov because I`d never heard of him before also, but I won`t pretend I do, and I meant no disrespect to him but its just his age and relative obscurity of most of his opponents made me wonder if as said before it was more amateur contest than pro.

I apologize if it came across disrespectful but I just thought your claim that most of his opponents having over a hundred fights was pretty far fetched, sure I like most on this site know that old records are alot of times incomplete, but most of them having over a hundred fights is a little too generous.

And by closer to amateur fights than pro I mean this in the way of novice fighters and not experienced boxers, once again if its come across disrespectful I apologize.

No problem Tony. I can assure you they were mostly experienced pros and some of them among the best in Europe. By age 14 he was topping the bills at some of the most prestigious fight venues in the country, by age 16 he was the biggest draw in British boxing, by age 18 his career was finished.

silkov wrote: Its a shame your grandfather didn't write his autobiography as it would have made a fascinating read...

Gilbert Odd had actually agreed to write a book on his life story in the 1980s, they had exchanged correspondence about it and had met up and discussed it. Sadly it never got off the ground and my grandfather died in 88. He did write some memoirs, which he'd passed on to Odd to help with the book. Perhaps the most interesting one is of his sparring session with Mickey Walker.

Please let me know if you come across any of the stuff you have on Nipper Pat. I'd be most grateful if you could send me copies and i'll of course send you some stuff on the "old timers" in return.

i would like to say ricky hatton

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Michael Gomez looked gone last time out. He's moving up in weight so that might help him.

Regardless, he's certainly an old-fashioned looking 27-year-old!

he was gone b4 the arthur fight prob. just that the stars aligned that night for him.

he had that massive heart that meant he could still hang around the domestic scene, but he was finished.

I just hope he doesnt suffer for his incredible braveness in later years :(

JEFF LACY!!!!!!!

Dave Boy Green
Naseem Hamed

how about Colin Dunne?

Went very suddenly

dr_devious wrote:Dave Boy Green
Naseem Hamed

naz was on the decline, not shot.

stujones wrote:Although I think both were over thirty, but David Izon and Obed Sullivan went from decent fighters to completely shot in a very short space of time and not after particularly hard careers.

Meldrick Taylor is a good one, as is Tyrell Biggs.

Taylor looked very good against Aaron Davis, after Chavez I.

Alex wrote:No problem Tony. I can assure you they were mostly experienced pros and some of them among the best in Europe. By age 14 he was topping the bills at some of the most prestigious fight venues in the country, by age 16 he was the biggest draw in British boxing, by age 18 his career was finished.

Alex,

Can you please elaborate on how a kid (which really a 9 year old is), could be fighting men? Unless he started puberty at a very early age I just can't get my head around it - he must have been some sort of genetic miracle. Can you give me some insight into this?

I find it absolutely fascinating.

Always thought Paul Hodkinson burnt out really early. The Vargas defeat really seemed to take everything out of him.

what about old fighters who got young?

Dennis Andries and Tom Collins

Erik Morrales
and i think that Juan Diaz is probably past his best, how old is he? like 26 or something

Kevin Anderson for a more recent British one

funso banjo baby wrote:what about old fighters who got young?

Dennis Andries and Tom Collins

ryan rhodes.

ciscokid wrote:

Alex wrote:No problem Tony. I can assure you they were mostly experienced pros and some of them among the best in Europe. By age 14 he was topping the bills at some of the most prestigious fight venues in the country, by age 16 he was the biggest draw in British boxing, by age 18 his career was finished.

Alex,


Can you please elaborate on how a kid (which really a 9 year old is), could be fighting men? Unless he started puberty at a very early age I just can't get my head around it - he must have been some sort of genetic miracle. Can you give me some insight into this?

I find it absolutely fascinating.

Just checked out his record. When he was 12 years old, he knocked out a guy called Young King in 1 round.

Now maybe the name "Young" King eases my worries in this respect, as unless this Young King was also a 12 year old boy, it must make him the worst fighter in history (if he were a grown man) as being KO in 1 round by a 12 year old boy is just not cricket.

Ha this thread is 5 years old.

Agree with Ricky Hatton, seemed to age overnight, I think he was treading water (or beer in his case) by the Castillo fight.

stevieb_8006 wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Dave Boy Green
Naseem Hamed

naz was on the decline, not shot.

He was shot in the last fight against the Spanish guy. A complete shadow of his former self at 28.