BoxRec

Ruthless-RKO wrote:I have to side with Ward here. It was an extremely close fight and ever since, Kovalev has just talked about rematch, if Ward retires etc. if he vacates etc?

Kovalev doesn't give Ward any credit, either Ward is getting annoyed or he's laughing at the fact that Kovalev can't admit defeat.

True that

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:I have to side with Ward here. It was an extremely close fight and ever since, Kovalev has just talked about rematch, if Ward retires etc. if he vacates etc?

Kovalev doesn't give Ward any credit, either Ward is getting annoyed or he's laughing at the fact that Kovalev can't admit defeat.

True that

What respect has Ward given kovalev? None. he's the one threatening retirement and Winging about kovalev not admitting a crooked defeat. Kovalev made a mistake in that fight even though he won, he showed ward to much respect, just like he did Hopkins, he should know better now. Bring on the rematch.

lazboy wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:I have to side with Ward here. It was an extremely close fight and ever since, Kovalev has just talked about rematch, if Ward retires etc. if he vacates etc?

Kovalev doesn't give Ward any credit, either Ward is getting annoyed or he's laughing at the fact that Kovalev can't admit defeat.

True that

What respect has Ward given kovalev? None. he's the one threatening retirement and Winging about kovalev not admitting a crooked defeat. Kovalev made a mistake in that fight even though he won, he showed ward to much respect, just like he did Hopkins, he should know better now. Bring on the rematch.

It seems to me that some folks here think Ward should have not even accepted the win, after all three judges awarded it to him? It's not his fault. Since his style isn't exactly an eye pleasing one to the judges in the first place, he should need to do a little more with his boring style in order to get the win. I'm not sure who is the most butt hurt.....Kovalev or his fan boys?

Telling a guy that he was lucky and basically a chickenshit for not taking the rematch will not get it. I would love to see a rematch, but at this point doubt if it will happen.

Badhusker wrote:
Telling a guy that he was lucky and basically a chickenshit for not taking the rematch will not get it. I would love to see a rematch, but at this point doubt if it will happen.

Lol

- 'You didn't deserve that decision'
- WHAT? No rematch for you!

Badhusker wrote: Telling a guy that he was lucky and basically a chickenshit for not taking the rematch will not get it. I would love to see a rematch, but at this point doubt if it will happen.

Really??? A guy with pride and dignity would say "I will gladly kick your ass again".

boxing_rocks wrote:

keep em coming

Badhusker wrote:

crusader wrote:I'm still confused about what people mean when they suggest that Kov should admit he lost. Do some think he's under the impression that the judges didn't actually score the fight for Ward?

If he said 'Andre, you were given the decision and officially won, meaning I officially lost, but I feel I deserved it', would that cut it as admitting defeat? Why is it unreasonable for Kov to feel like he should've won when so many scored the fight for him, and most of those who had it for Ward believe it was super close and could've gone either way? Criticizing a guy for feeling like the deserving winner in that context is idiotic.

It might work, and is it that bad of a thing to say? I don't think anyone is criticizing Kovalev for feeling like he is deserving of the win. He has a legitimate claim. Sometimes, you have to say what the guy (Ward - diva) wants to hear if you want to get revenge.

To me it comes down to swallowing your pride in order to get revenge, and make several million in the process. OR, you could go on saying you won - stand firm, and not get the rematch or the money. Sometimes you have to do what you feel is against your principles in order to get what you want.

Come on man, you have GOT to see how stupid this is.

Sometimes you have to say what the diva wants to get revenge?

I can see it now: "Kovalev didn't dress up in a Peppa the Pig costume so Ward says no rematch for him". They signed a contract; no swallowing pride is necessary when a contract has been signed.

Seriously this is professional wrestling antics at their worst. "I'll give you that Hell in a Cell match but first you gotta come down and kiss my foot!" Ward is looking for a way out of the rematch; that is the ONLY way to describe this.

punchoutsb wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

crusader wrote:I'm still confused about what people mean when they suggest that Kov should admit he lost. Do some think he's under the impression that the judges didn't actually score the fight for Ward?

If he said 'Andre, you were given the decision and officially won, meaning I officially lost, but I feel I deserved it', would that cut it as admitting defeat? Why is it unreasonable for Kov to feel like he should've won when so many scored the fight for him, and most of those who had it for Ward believe it was super close and could've gone either way? Criticizing a guy for feeling like the deserving winner in that context is idiotic.

It might work, and is it that bad of a thing to say? I don't think anyone is criticizing Kovalev for feeling like he is deserving of the win. He has a legitimate claim. Sometimes, you have to say what the guy (Ward - diva) wants to hear if you want to get revenge.

To me it comes down to swallowing your pride in order to get revenge, and make several million in the process. OR, you could go on saying you won - stand firm, and not get the rematch or the money. Sometimes you have to do what you feel is against your principles in order to get what you want.

Come on man, you have GOT to see how stupid this is.

Sometimes you have to say what the diva wants to get revenge?

I can see it now: "Kovalev didn't dress up in a Peppa the Pig costume so Ward says no rematch for him". They signed a contract; no swallowing pride is necessary when a contract has been signed.

Seriously this is professional wrestling antics at their worst. "I'll give you that Hell in a Cell match but first you gotta come down and kiss my foot!" Ward is looking for a way out of the rematch; that is the ONLY way to describe this.

I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

The big difference is: Pac clearly lost, while Kovalev clearly won. Ward has three options:
- retire as a coward
- do the rematch
- face a law suit for violating the contract

Badhusker wrote: I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

Reality is created as we go. Ward will get destroyed by the media if he does this; that is reality. And Pac's shoulder "injury" in no way blew the rematch, Floyd dominating did. Unless Ward moves up and fight Usyk or something, nothing else will reflect well on him.

boxing_rocks wrote:The big difference is: Pac clearly lost, while Kovalev clearly won. Ward has three options:
- retire as a coward
- do the rematch
- face a law suit for violating the contract

The fourth option would be for the S.O.G. to cross the proverbial street to sign with Showtime and still offer Main Events the rematch, knowing full-well that Kathy Duva won’t be able to proceed with it, since Kovalev is contractually-tied to HBO (as per the Superman-Krusher-WBC mandatory challenger purse bid debacle).

When Kovalev’s team declines the opportunity for the rematch, due to the terms of his exclusive contract with HBO, Andre Ward would then be in a position to unify all four light heavyweight titles against Adonis Stevenson on a Showtime PPV.

According to the 175lb divisional rankings, a lot of the fighters in that weight class are either network free agents or controlled by Al Haymon, assuming the PBC boss is willing to do business with the owners of Roc Nation who previously filed a lawsuit against him for allegedly defrauding Beyoncé.

Badhusker wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

It might work, and is it that bad of a thing to say? I don't think anyone is criticizing Kovalev for feeling like he is deserving of the win. He has a legitimate claim. Sometimes, you have to say what the guy (Ward - diva) wants to hear if you want to get revenge.

To me it comes down to swallowing your pride in order to get revenge, and make several million in the process. OR, you could go on saying you won - stand firm, and not get the rematch or the money. Sometimes you have to do what you feel is against your principles in order to get what you want.

Come on man, you have GOT to see how stupid this is.

Sometimes you have to say what the diva wants to get revenge?

I can see it now: "Kovalev didn't dress up in a Peppa the Pig costume so Ward says no rematch for him". They signed a contract; no swallowing pride is necessary when a contract has been signed.

Seriously this is professional wrestling antics at their worst. "I'll give you that Hell in a Cell match but first you gotta come down and kiss my foot!" Ward is looking for a way out of the rematch; that is the ONLY way to describe this.

I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

The difference is the majority of people knew Floyd beat Pacquiao.. Just like the majority knew Floyd beat Oscar, Castillo, and Maidana.. Only Floyd haters and Latinos sincerely thought he lost any of those decisions---and a couple of idiot judges who don't know how to score.. But if you're neutral and knowledgeable you know Ward clearly lost the Kovalev fight.. Kovalev landed the better, cleaner, harder and more numerous punches, was the aggressor most of the way, and scored a solid knockdown.. Plus Ward fought dirty, butting and shouldering.. There's no way you get to a legitimate Ward win out of that.

In contrast Mayweather out scored Oscar, Castillo, Pacquiao, and Maidana by a clear margin, but a few idiots bitched about them. You always have that.

Badhusker wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

It might work, and is it that bad of a thing to say? I don't think anyone is criticizing Kovalev for feeling like he is deserving of the win. He has a legitimate claim. Sometimes, you have to say what the guy (Ward - diva) wants to hear if you want to get revenge.

To me it comes down to swallowing your pride in order to get revenge, and make several million in the process. OR, you could go on saying you won - stand firm, and not get the rematch or the money. Sometimes you have to do what you feel is against your principles in order to get what you want.

Come on man, you have GOT to see how stupid this is.

Sometimes you have to say what the diva wants to get revenge?

I can see it now: "Kovalev didn't dress up in a Peppa the Pig costume so Ward says no rematch for him". They signed a contract; no swallowing pride is necessary when a contract has been signed.

Seriously this is professional wrestling antics at their worst. "I'll give you that Hell in a Cell match but first you gotta come down and kiss my foot!" Ward is looking for a way out of the rematch; that is the ONLY way to describe this.

I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

I don't know what your reality is. If you think that Mayweather pulled the plug on a rematch with Pac because Pac cited a shoulder injury and didn't admit defeat than thats seriously simple thinking. Why would Mayweather care what Pac thought? Maidana said he won their first fight (which he didn't) and was granted a rematch and then said he won the second fight.

Why should Ward care what Kovalev thinks? Why is Ward concerned Kovalev is "making himself look bad" to the public by not admitting defeat. I think he's insecure. He wants Kovalev to admit defeat then he will retire and he will always be able to say, even Kovalev said I won. Ward is an exploiter. His actual boxing styles exploits traditional boxing. Holding and hitting is the prime example.

It makes no sense for Kovalev to "admit defeat". It will make no difference to whether there's an rematch on not. Bigger things are in play, no some school yard manipulation by Ward.

lazboy wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
Come on man, you have GOT to see how stupid this is.

Sometimes you have to say what the diva wants to get revenge?

I can see it now: "Kovalev didn't dress up in a Peppa the Pig costume so Ward says no rematch for him". They signed a contract; no swallowing pride is necessary when a contract has been signed.

Seriously this is professional wrestling antics at their worst. "I'll give you that Hell in a Cell match but first you gotta come down and kiss my foot!" Ward is looking for a way out of the rematch; that is the ONLY way to describe this.

I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

I don't know what your reality is. If you think that Mayweather pulled the plug on a rematch with Pac because Pac cited a shoulder injury and didn't admit defeat than thats seriously simple thinking. Why would Mayweather care what Pac thought? Maidana said he won their first fight (which he didn't) and was granted a rematch and then said he won the second fight.

Why should Ward care what Kovalev thinks? Why is Ward concerned Kovalev is "making himself look bad" to the public by not admitting defeat. I think he's insecure. He wants Kovalev to admit defeat then he will retire and he will always be able to say, even Kovalev said I won. Ward is an exploiter. His actual boxing styles exploits traditional boxing. Holding and hitting is the prime example.

It makes no sense for Kovalev to "admit defeat". It will make no difference to whether there's an rematch on not. Bigger things are in play, no some school yard manipulation by Ward.

Floyd publicly said he would give Pacquiao a rematch but changed his mind after hearing the excuses. Here is a quote from ESPN:

"Did I text Stephen A. Smith and say I will fight him again? Yeah, but I change my mind. At this particular time, no, because he's a sore loser and he's a coward," Mayweather told Showtime in an interview taped this week that will air Saturday night (9 ET) during the network's replay of last Saturday night's megafight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

"If you lost, accept the loss and say, 'Mayweather, you were the better fighter,'" Mayweather continued.

My seriously simple thinking is right on the money. I try to base my reality on facts, and not make stuff up. My opinion may seem off base, but whatever.
I agree the May/Pac fight score-wise is a poor comparison. I understand if Kovalev thinks he won the fight he probably isn't going to give props to Ward. I didn't think it was a total domination like quite a few here do, so in my opinion the sportsmanlike thing to do would be to at least congratulate the winner.

... and of course whatever Floyd said must be true

Badhusker wrote:

lazboy wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

I am talking about reality. Is that so hard to understand? I used the May/Pac example before, and Pac blew a rematch by citing a shoulder excuse, and not admitting he lost. Yes, a diva like Floyd, Ward, etc, needs to be fed, like it or not. It may seem stupid to you if you are a big fan of Kovalev, but it is pretty simple. Ward can retire or move up. Already beat Kovalev. His legacy years from now if they don't rematch will tell the story. To some boxers legacy is more important than money. The "L" may haunt Kovalev and his closest fans for years to come.

I don't know what your reality is. If you think that Mayweather pulled the plug on a rematch with Pac because Pac cited a shoulder injury and didn't admit defeat than thats seriously simple thinking. Why would Mayweather care what Pac thought? Maidana said he won their first fight (which he didn't) and was granted a rematch and then said he won the second fight.

Why should Ward care what Kovalev thinks? Why is Ward concerned Kovalev is "making himself look bad" to the public by not admitting defeat. I think he's insecure. He wants Kovalev to admit defeat then he will retire and he will always be able to say, even Kovalev said I won. Ward is an exploiter. His actual boxing styles exploits traditional boxing. Holding and hitting is the prime example.

It makes no sense for Kovalev to "admit defeat". It will make no difference to whether there's an rematch on not. Bigger things are in play, no some school yard manipulation by Ward.

Floyd publicly said he would give Pacquiao a rematch but changed his mind after hearing the excuses. Here is a quote from ESPN:

"Did I text Stephen A. Smith and say I will fight him again? Yeah, but I change my mind. At this particular time, no, because he's a sore loser and he's a coward," Mayweather told Showtime in an interview taped this week that will air Saturday night (9 ET) during the network's replay of last Saturday night's megafight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

"If you lost, accept the loss and say, 'Mayweather, you were the better fighter,'" Mayweather continued.

My seriously simple thinking is right on the money. I try to base my reality on facts, and not make stuff up. My opinion may seem off base, but whatever.
I agree the May/Pac fight score-wise is a poor comparison. I understand if Kovalev thinks he won the fight he probably isn't going to give props to Ward. I didn't think it was a total domination like quite a few here do, so in my opinion the sportsmanlike thing to do would be to at least congratulate the winner.

Listen fair enough I don't like having arguments on here behind my keyboard. Yes to congratulate the winner would be a respectful and decent thing to do although Kovalev isn't just the villain. Soon after Ward won he told the media Kovalev was a bully and that his fighting style was that of a bully and inferred that he was the hero standing up to the bully. From the press I saw Kovalev showed nothing but respect for Ward prior to the bout and to again infer come forward aggressive fighters are all bullies doesn't make sense. A bully is someone like Ronda Rousey. Kovalev did none of that he just fought the way he does. There's a real lack of respect from both parties that's true. But I'm amazaed that Ward is being painted as this good guy because he is no better. Calling Kov a bully straight after, threatening retirement and now this Ward agenda for Kovalev to concede defeat. Just enough war or words, get on with the job. But I don't think Ward likes his job unless it is an easy Brand mismatch job.

Floyd is a cash cow, ward is not. Not even remotely, the fight is about pride and legacy for sergey. In the end, he doesn't need ward at all. He can just go about his business.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Floyd is a cash cow, ward is not. Not even remotely, the fight is about pride and legacy for sergey. In the end, he doesn't need ward at all. He can just go about his business.

Yea that's right. Plus the loss won't be some black mark on his record, it has created enough controversy for it to remain in the history books. Kovalevs just naturally a fighter, that's what he is, it's not going to ruin him, he'll just keep doing what he does. Ward dealing with a loss, well that's career and psyche ruining for him.

Lmao at ward/Stevenson on ppv. That is far from enlightened.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Didn't Leonard say the same to Hagler?

Kov should just forget it. These things always work against the guy who got the nod. For the rest of his life people will mention this fight and the decision when they hear Ward's name.
Ward needs the rematch more than Kov.

there's something dirty about slappin' soggy the look the smell the vibe the crap he and angry virgil talk retch inducing

I wish Kovalev would do whatever it takes to get the rematch so we can all see it. Maybe it will end up a trilogy? It looks like Ward has limited choices; rematch, Stevenson fight, retire, or move up. If he fights and beats Stevenson, it may make the rematch even bigger, so that would be my guess.