BoxRec

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Unfortunately though, you can’t bestow “all-time-greatness” on fighters based on "what might have been", what their potential was or based on simply passing the proverbial “eyeball test”. You can only do that based on the events that occurred in the real world.

I’m not criticising GGG but I do feel that it is preposterous to boldly proclaim the man to be an “all-time-great” based on his current achievements inside the ring.

Indeed you can. Look up Charles Burley and Peter Jackson, to name a couple.

Please explain what you mean?

Enlightened-One wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Unfortunately though, you can’t bestow “all-time-greatness” on fighters based on "what might have been", what their potential was or based on simply passing the proverbial “eyeball test”. You can only do that based on the events that occurred in the real world.

I’m not criticising GGG but I do feel that it is preposterous to boldly proclaim the man to be an “all-time-great” based on his current achievements inside the ring.

Indeed you can. Look up Charles Burley and Peter Jackson, to name a couple.

Please explain what you mean?

Do some research.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
Indeed you can. Look up Charles Burley and Peter Jackson, to name a couple.

Please explain what you mean?

Do some research.

I know the names, but what was your point? It's unclear to me.

jujigatame wrote:Who really considers Golovkin an ATG right now? If he's an ATG then so are Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor.

nope.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
Indeed you can. Look up Charles Burley and Peter Jackson, to name a couple.

Please explain what you mean?

Do some research.

I know the names, but what was your point? It's unclear to me.

It's mildly possible, depending on longevity, margin of victory, and precise quality of the non-elite opponents. But it's important to use caution, because fighters like Arthur Abraham, Kelly Pavlik, or Lucian Bute would be capable of putting together nearly similar, slightly less impressive resumes against similar opposition. Their margin of victory would probably be a little worse. But yeah, I think calling him an all-time great is a bit of a stretch right now. Sergio Martinez, Jermain Taylor, Vernon Forrest, Tyson Fury, etc. have better wins than Golovkin at the high end. Plus, Golovkin's narrow victory over Jacobs put a damper on an otherwise vicious streak of dominance. So I mean... Golovkin might be regarded as an ATG one day, but he needs to keep working at it.

man wrote:

jujigatame wrote:Who really considers Golovkin an ATG right now? If he's an ATG then so are Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor.

nope.

That's a fair point. They had bigger wins. If your looking longevity add Omar Narvaez or Arthur Abraham.

Burley fought a slew of all time greats. I believe he once fought Ezzard Charles & Holman Williams in the same week.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
Indeed you can. Look up Charles Burley and Peter Jackson, to name a couple.

Please explain what you mean?

Do some research.

I know the names, but what was your point? It's unclear to me.

How did the first ATG become an ATG?

crusader wrote:How did the first ATG become an ATG?

Great shout

crusader wrote:How did the first ATG become an ATG?

If you told us who the first ever all-time-great boxer was, then perhaps we can propose an answer to your question?

crusader wrote:How did the first ATG become an ATG?

Came out of a chicken egg, IMO.

Enlightened-One wrote:

crusader wrote:How did the first ATG become an ATG?

If you told us who the first ever all-time-great boxer was, then perhaps we can propose an answer to your question?

i think you didn't get the point ...

man wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

crusader wrote:How did the first ATG become an ATG?

If you told us who the first ever all-time-great boxer was, then perhaps we can propose an answer to your question?

i think you didn't get the point ...

I did but I wanted to make a separate one.

Enlightened-One wrote:

man wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: If you told us who the first ever all-time-great boxer was, then perhaps we can propose an answer to your question?

i think you didn't get the point ...

I did but I wanted to make a separate one.

funny way to approach a question?

world ranked wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:The whole GGG fanbase seems like Manny refugees looking for a new fighter to be unrealistic about.
Some of the comments of who GGG would beat is just as ridiculous as the Manny comments were.

Jacobs is on the level of a Jermain Taylor.
Let that guide how great you think GGG is.

In hindsight, I think Froch should have jumped on a potential GGG fight.

Jermain Taylor was the middleweight champ of the world lets say discredit like he was no good. Jacobs is a better all-around fighter to me than Taylor. More fluent, hard puncher, more techinically sound. To me Taylor did really nothing better than Jacobs maybe jab(iffy).

Umm ... Bad Intentions ... ?
Taylor is quite underrated imo, but he is certainly not an ATG.
Do you think Jacobs fights Hopkins and Wright evenish over 3 fights?
So I think JT is actually better head to head, but the end of his career brings down his prime.

I'm just saying I think GGG is a little better than Taylor.
Somewhere around Froch.

Not ATG, in my opinion.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

world ranked wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:The whole GGG fanbase seems like Manny refugees looking for a new fighter to be unrealistic about.
Some of the comments of who GGG would beat is just as ridiculous as the Manny comments were.

Jacobs is on the level of a Jermain Taylor.
Let that guide how great you think GGG is.

In hindsight, I think Froch should have jumped on a potential GGG fight.

Jermain Taylor was the middleweight champ of the world lets say discredit like he was no good. Jacobs is a better all-around fighter to me than Taylor. More fluent, hard puncher, more techinically sound. To me Taylor did really nothing better than Jacobs maybe jab(iffy).

Umm ... Bad Intentions ... ?
Taylor is quite underrated imo, but he is certainly not an ATG.
Do you think Jacobs fights Hopkins and Wright evenish over 3 fights?
So I think JT is actually better head to head, but the end of his career brings down his prime.

I'm just saying I think GGG is a little better than Taylor.
Somewhere around Froch.

Not ATG, in my opinion.

To be somewhere around Froch, GGG needs to be widely outboxed by somebody while still being in his prime.

Lol, what a ridiculous shot at froch. That dude was a pure gladiator.

Froch is an ATG super-middleweight. Anyone that says otherwise is talking nonsense.

boxing_rocks wrote:To be somewhere around Froch, GGG needs to be widely outboxed by somebody while still being in his prime.

This is a silly remark.

I think that you have to consider where GGG started and where he is right now and where this amazing career could possibly be going before classifying him in any way. This wasn't a celebrated boxer with promoters barging down the doors to start like this kid Conlin from Ireland who's first fight ends up being a huge event at MSG. GGG paved the way for this Russian-ish invasion and it's absolutely incredible how far this kid has come with the odds stacked so heavily against him. To come from where GGG has to become the top P4P fighter in the world and PPV star is amazing and he did it the right way, fighting everyone and anyone willing to test him. It's All Time Great Worthy and I think that no matter what happens from here on out, he's got a place as one of the greatest Middleweights in history.

He's older now. Jacobs would have been obliterated had this fight taken place 5 years ago. Jacobs turning southpaw confused GGG and his team and I think that is what kept Jacobs in the fight. But not to take away from Jacobs effort, a rematch would favor GGG heavily. It's sad that GGG is so old right now because it took him a long winding road to be where he is right now. But it's been an amazing and historical trek.

caldo2025 wrote:I think that you have to consider where GGG started and where he is right now and where this amazing career could possibly be going before classifying him in any way. This wasn't a celebrated boxer with promoters barging down the doors to start like this kid Conlin from Ireland who's first fight ends up being a huge event at MSG. GGG paved the way for this Russian-ish invasion and it's absolutely incredible how far this kid has come with the odds stacked so heavily against him. To come from where GGG has to become the top P4P fighter in the world and PPV star is amazing and he did it the right way, fighting everyone and anyone willing to test him. It's All Time Great Worthy and I think that no matter what happens from here on out, he's got a place as one of the greatest Middleweights in history.

He's older now. Jacobs would have been obliterated had this fight taken place 5 years ago. Jacobs turning southpaw confused GGG and his team and I think that is what kept Jacobs in the fight. But not to take away from Jacobs effort, a rematch would favor GGG heavily. It's sad that GGG is so old right now because it took him a long winding road to be where he is right now. But it's been an amazing and historical trek.

I can’t really criticise some of the things you’ve said in this post, but I do think it’s premature to believe that Golovkin is already past-his-prime and would have been capable of “obliterating” Danny Jacobs five years ago.

Jacobs may have been at least 10lbs heavier than GGG on fight night, he was almost certainly the best opponent that Gennady had ever faced by a proverbial country mile (only the third fighter the Kazakh had defeated that could possibly be considered as a top-five world-rated 160lb-er) and Danny also bravely fought an excellent fight with a cautious game plan.

I also believe that Golovkin wasn’t looking to score an early knockout, since it seemed that he had made a premeditated decision to employ an appropriately cautious strategy against a bigger opponent that could clearly box and punch. Gennady’s approach to the Jacobs fight was something that many people, including myself, had predicted.

The thing is… we’ve never seen GGG taken the distance against a world-class durable opponent that could effectively return fire in almost equal measure, which means that Gennady’s relatively low work-rate may have always been a consequence of his fantastically-powerful punches or perhaps he was simply being more selective about the punches he threw at Jacobs in order to minimise counter-punching opportunities.

So we don’t know for certain whether Gennady is already far removed from his prime or whether his previously impressive performances were a direct result of the second-tier quality of opposition that he’d faced.

In my mind, it's unfair to expect GGG to maintain his excellent form and extreme levels of domination if the quality of his opposition and body-of-work continues to improve, because it has to be far more challenging defeating the second best 160lb-er on the planet as opposed to the run-of-the-mill top-15 second-tier victims he had previously faced throughout the entirety of his career.

caldo2025 wrote:GGG paved the way for this Russian-ish invasion and it's absolutely incredible how far this kid has come with the odds stacked so heavily against him.

Forgetting something you voided bubblegum receipt? You know, those two not so tiny "Russian-ish" details.

The Klit bros paved the way for the "Russian-ish" invasion, caldohpuck, including the "Russian-ish" focus of your fanboy obsession.

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:GGG paved the way for this Russian-ish invasion and it's absolutely incredible how far this kid has come with the odds stacked so heavily against him.

Forgetting something you voided bubblegum receipt? You know, those two not so tiny "Russian-ish" details.

The Klit bros paved the way for the "Russian-ish" invasion, caldohpuck, including the "Russian-ish" focus of your fanboy obsession.

In terms of Eastern Europe, the list of fighters that came before GGG is huge: Kostya Tzyu, Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Nikolay Valuev, Louis Kaplan, Benny Bass, Vic Darchinyan, Orzubek Nazarov, Artur Grigorian, Sultan Ibragimov, Vasily Jirov etc.

You're welcome.