BoxRec

Any comparisons people are making to Andre Ward is a compliment to the man himself.

You would need Canelo or GGG to win by clean impressive stoppage to challenge Andre Ward to the crown I would have thought.
Even then neither is likely to challenge him face to face unless it was at 168 minimum.
Ward has breathing room.

Impractical Poster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: Wait wait wait... did you really mean the best lightheavy anyone has ever seen?

I said that Ward went up in weight to take on arguably the best light heavyweight. I'm referring to Kovalev being the best light heavy, not Ward. Prior to the losses to Ward, there was talk that Kovalev was that good. Definitely the best that I've ever seen in over 35 years of watching the sport. He was at least in the conversation for top 3 of all time. It's never been a great division anyway.

I understood. Only someone who has not been following boxing long would think that Kov would be in the running as the best light heavy anyone has ever seen.

Roy Jones would have wiped the floor with him. Plus a few others at LH.

So Bernard Hopkins doesn't' know much about boxing then? He was in the ring with him and the words came out his mouth as well. The point was that what Ward did was pretty amazing. Obviously, everyone is going to put Kovalev in a different category now that he's been knocked out but prior to what we saw, most people would have Kovalev on a short list of great at light heavy.

caldo2025 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
I said that Ward went up in weight to take on arguably the best light heavyweight. I'm referring to Kovalev being the best light heavy, not Ward. Prior to the losses to Ward, there was talk that Kovalev was that good. Definitely the best that I've ever seen in over 35 years of watching the sport. He was at least in the conversation for top 3 of all time. It's never been a great division anyway.

I understood. Only someone who has not been following boxing long would think that Kov would be in the running as the best light heavy anyone has ever seen.

Roy Jones would have wiped the floor with him. Plus a few others at LH.

So Bernard Hopkins doesn't' know much about boxing then? He was in the ring with him and the words came out his mouth as well. The point was that what Ward did was pretty amazing. Obviously, everyone is going to put Kovalev in a different category now that he's been knocked out but prior to what we saw, most people would have Kovalev on a short list of great at light heavy.

Yeah, but that was nearly the same Hopkins that got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith as well....

Impractical Poster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I understood. Only someone who has not been following boxing long would think that Kov would be in the running as the best light heavy anyone has ever seen.

Roy Jones would have wiped the floor with him. Plus a few others at LH.

So Bernard Hopkins doesn't' know much about boxing then? He was in the ring with him and the words came out his mouth as well. The point was that what Ward did was pretty amazing. Obviously, everyone is going to put Kovalev in a different category now that he's been knocked out but prior to what we saw, most people would have Kovalev on a short list of great at light heavy.

Yeah, but that was nearly the same Hopkins that got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith as well....

No, it was an active confident Hopkins who just humiliated and dropped Shumenov.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
So Bernard Hopkins doesn't' know much about boxing then? He was in the ring with him and the words came out his mouth as well. The point was that what Ward did was pretty amazing. Obviously, everyone is going to put Kovalev in a different category now that he's been knocked out but prior to what we saw, most people would have Kovalev on a short list of great at light heavy.

Yeah, but that was nearly the same Hopkins that got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith as well....

No, it was an active confident Hopkins who just humiliated and dropped Shumenov.

It was an old man talking sh!t. A freak of nature of an old man, but he was promoting.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
So Bernard Hopkins doesn't' know much about boxing then? He was in the ring with him and the words came out his mouth as well. The point was that what Ward did was pretty amazing. Obviously, everyone is going to put Kovalev in a different category now that he's been knocked out but prior to what we saw, most people would have Kovalev on a short list of great at light heavy.

Yeah, but that was nearly the same Hopkins that got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith as well....

No, it was an active confident Hopkins who just humiliated and dropped Shumenov.

Comon man...

Evander wrote:Andre Ward is Pound For Pound Number 1.
It's like that.

What say you ?

In his rightful place S.O.G P4P KING

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: Yeah, but that was nearly the same Hopkins that got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith as well....

No, it was an active confident Hopkins who just humiliated and dropped Shumenov.

It was an old man talking sh!t. A freak of nature of an old man, but he was promoting.

So Bernard Hopkins was promoting after he got demolished by Kovalev and had no monetary gain to do so? That's nonsense. If Kovalev had the brains to listen to a trainer instead of thinking that he could do everything himself, it's scary how good he could have been. But he went pretty far on his own.

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
No, it was an active confident Hopkins who just humiliated and dropped Shumenov.

It was an old man talking sh!t. A freak of nature of an old man, but he was promoting.

So Bernard Hopkins was promoting after he got demolished by Kovalev and had no monetary gain to do so? That's nonsense. If Kovalev had the brains to listen to a trainer instead of thinking that he could do everything himself, it's scary how good he could have been. But he went pretty far on his own.

BHop was a dinosaur when he fought Krushedner. The old man was talking up the dude who kicked his old ass.

Trainers can't teach the ability to take body shots. Krushedner is weak to the body. If he continues, a top level LHW will demonstrate that clearly for us, again.

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote: It was an old man talking sh!t. A freak of nature of an old man, but he was promoting.

So Bernard Hopkins was promoting after he got demolished by Kovalev and had no monetary gain to do so? That's nonsense. If Kovalev had the brains to listen to a trainer instead of thinking that he could do everything himself, it's scary how good he could have been. But he went pretty far on his own.

BHop was a dinosaur when he fought Krushedner. The old man was talking up the dude who kicked his old ass.

Trainers can't teach the ability to take body shots. Krushedner is weak to the body. If he continues, a top level LHW will demonstrate that clearly for us, again.

Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
So Bernard Hopkins was promoting after he got demolished by Kovalev and had no monetary gain to do so? That's nonsense. If Kovalev had the brains to listen to a trainer instead of thinking that he could do everything himself, it's scary how good he could have been. But he went pretty far on his own.

BHop was a dinosaur when he fought Krushedner. The old man was talking up the dude who kicked his old ass.

Trainers can't teach the ability to take body shots. Krushedner is weak to the body. If he continues, a top level LHW will demonstrate that clearly for us, again.

Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

I agree that he needed a good trainer. But, he needed the good trainer for the whole camp. If you don't trust your trainers enough to listen to them fight night, you didn't trust them all camp. They were just there to hold gloves, etc.

SOGgy, on the other hand, devises overall strategies with tactical options in his camps. Team SOGgy listened to the team member assigned to observe taping when he informed him that Krushedner was coming in cold due to taping problems and that he clearly did not like SOGgy dipping low and his head being on his side in the previous fight. He advised Team SOGgy just before fight time that SOGgy was vulnerable to the body and was not comfortable being forced to grapple.

That realtime intelligence may have been the difference in the fight.

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote: BHop was a dinosaur when he fought Krushedner. The old man was talking up the dude who kicked his old ass.

Trainers can't teach the ability to take body shots. Krushedner is weak to the body. If he continues, a top level LHW will demonstrate that clearly for us, again.

Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

I agree that he needed a good trainer. But, he needed the good trainer for the whole camp. If you don't trust your trainers enough to listen to them fight night, you didn't trust them all camp. They were just there to hold gloves, etc.

SOGgy, on the other hand, devises overall strategies with tactical options in his camps. Team SOGgy listened to the team member assigned to observe taping when he informed him that Krushedner was coming in cold due to taping problems and that he clearly did not like SOGgy dipping low and his head being on his side in the previous fight. He advised Team SOGgy just before fight time that SOGgy was vulnerable to the body and was not comfortable being forced to grapple.

That realtime intelligence may have been the difference in the fight.

I've watched the first fight several times and the rematch a couple of times and i just can't see what people are talking about with Ward's big body attack. I just didn't see all of these punches that Max and Roy were cockblocking each other over. I saw some light pitterpatt jabs to the midsection but I just didn't see anything that i would point to as the reason Kovalev was dead. The smoking gun reason that I see is the Kovalev's punch output and wrestling as the reason. I don't think any punches doing any damage before that last round. The big right hand happened because Kovalev was dead and couldn't defend himself. Just my opinion.

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

I agree that he needed a good trainer. But, he needed the good trainer for the whole camp. If you don't trust your trainers enough to listen to them fight night, you didn't trust them all camp. They were just there to hold gloves, etc.

SOGgy, on the other hand, devises overall strategies with tactical options in his camps. Team SOGgy listened to the team member assigned to observe taping when he informed him that Krushedner was coming in cold due to taping problems and that he clearly did not like SOGgy dipping low and his head being on his side in the previous fight. He advised Team SOGgy just before fight time that SOGgy was vulnerable to the body and was not comfortable being forced to grapple.

That realtime intelligence may have been the difference in the fight.

I've watched the first fight several times and the rematch a couple of times and i just can't see what people are talking about with Ward's big body attack. I just didn't see all of these punches that Max and Roy were cockblocking each other over. I saw some light pitterpatt jabs to the midsection but I just didn't see anything that i would point to as the reason Kovalev was dead. The smoking gun reason that I see is the Kovalev's punch output and wrestling as the reason. I don't think any punches doing any damage before that last round. The big right hand happened because Kovalev was dead and couldn't defend himself. Just my opinion.

I think it was a combination in the second fight. He was clearly landing well to the body but I agree that forcing Krushedner to deal with his inside game physically was the key.

In the first fight Krushedner shot his wad and SOGgy took over, making him miss and forcing him to grapple to even survive in the second half.

Essentially, Krushedner needs someone to stand at range and trade. SOGgy just isn't his huckleberry.

I am reading the thread title as "Andre Ward is P4P NOT". Definitely not number 1. Maybe 6 at best.

boxing_rocks wrote:I am reading the thread title as "Andre Ward is P4P NOT". Definitely not number 1. Maybe 6 at best.

Everybody has an opinion. I still have Krushedner top five, until he loses to someone other than P4P #1.

Freedom2013 wrote:https://twitter.com/Jmathew077O/status/ ... 9277608961

THAt made me spit my coffee. thx man !
spot on btw.

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote: BHop was a dinosaur when he fought Krushedner. The old man was talking up the dude who kicked his old ass.

Trainers can't teach the ability to take body shots. Krushedner is weak to the body. If he continues, a top level LHW will demonstrate that clearly for us, again.

Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

I agree that he needed a good trainer. But, he needed the good trainer for the whole camp. If you don't trust your trainers enough to listen to them fight night, you didn't trust them all camp. They were just there to hold gloves, etc.

SOGgy, on the other hand, devises overall strategies with tactical options in his camps. Team SOGgy listened to the team member assigned to observe taping when he informed him that Krushedner was coming in cold due to taping problems and that he clearly did not like SOGgy dipping low and his head being on his side in the previous fight. He advised Team SOGgy just before fight time that SOGgy was vulnerable to the body and was not comfortable being forced to grapple.

That realtime intelligence may have been the difference in the fight.

oh oh, bnovs alterego is going psycotic here. Imageining he is in crowd with the son of gonads, knowing shit he has absolutely no clue about irl....
that poor devil

Ward at cruiserweight:

https://www.facebook.com/KievLifeNews/v ... 033282957/

Butterbean wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Trainers CAN teach how to avoid body shots and how to throw them but no one can teach Kovalev anything until he hits rock bottom and realizes that he has to listen to someone. Kovalev gave an interview prior to the fight that he doesn't listen to anyone in the corner because he got there by himself alone. No one else. No one needed a good trainer more than Kovalev did for this fight.

I agree that he needed a good trainer. But, he needed the good trainer for the whole camp. If you don't trust your trainers enough to listen to them fight night, you didn't trust them all camp. They were just there to hold gloves, etc.

SOGgy, on the other hand, devises overall strategies with tactical options in his camps. Team SOGgy listened to the team member assigned to observe taping when he informed him that Krushedner was coming in cold due to taping problems and that he clearly did not like SOGgy dipping low and his head being on his side in the previous fight. He advised Team SOGgy just before fight time that SOGgy was vulnerable to the body and was not comfortable being forced to grapple.

That realtime intelligence may have been the difference in the fight.

oh oh, bnovs alterego is going psycotic here. Imageining he is in crowd with the son of gonads, knowing poo he has absolutely no clue about irl....
that poor devil

Good ole Buttheadbean spittin sh!t out his mouth about a fight he never watched.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7E2M9N5Y8

Don't imagine you will bother to watch the above vid of a Team SOGgy member explaining how Krushedner had significant glove problems that cut his warmup time and about how he was already whining to the ref in front of the opposing team member revealing important intelligence that informed SOGgy's tactics.

Evander wrote:You would need Canelo or GGG to win by clean impressive stoppage to challenge Andre Ward to the crown I would have thought.
Even then neither is likely to challenge him face to face unless it was at 168 minimum.
Ward has breathing room.

If Canelo defeats GGG no matter how (biased decision and/or referee), Canelo will be the new P4P No. 1 according to Ring Magazine because De La Hoya owns Ring. If GGG wins, then Ward will remain as P4P No. 1. That is my prediction.

boxing_rocks wrote:Ward at cruiserweight:

https://www.facebook.com/KievLifeNews/v ... 033282957/

Looks like SOGgy is going to rule CW.

Only till big boys get annoyed with his barking.

boxing_rocks wrote:Only till big boys get annoyed with his barking.

Terriers bite more than they bark in a fight.