BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 19:43

TheGman wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 16:42

Djanders44 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 13:40 I disagree with most, who think Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are the #1 and #2 greatest Heavyweights of all time. I've only jumped ship recently, after many decades of thought on the subject.

Who is your top 2 all time best heavy?

I have Holmes #1.

holmes isnt #1, i dont know what you've watched, though he's easy top 10 at the very least

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 19:57

mickey1975 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 19:43

TheGman wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 16:42

Who is your top 2 all time best heavy?

I have Holmes #1.

holmes isnt #1, i dont know what you've watched, though he's easy top 10 at the very least

Watched every one of them.

if lar is #1 then eubank jr put on a masterclass vs bjs

TheGman wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 16:42

Djanders44 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 13:40 I disagree with most, who think Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are the #1 and #2 greatest Heavyweights of all time. I've only jumped ship recently, after many decades of thought on the subject.

Who is your top 2 all time best heavy?

I have Holyfield at #1.

Djanders44 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 04:10

TheGman wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 16:42

Djanders44 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 13:40 I disagree with most, who think Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are the #1 and #2 greatest Heavyweights of all time. I've only jumped ship recently, after many decades of thought on the subject.

Who is your top 2 all time best heavy?

I have Holyfield at #1.

Interesting...on his best nights he was a match for the anyone I’d agree. I have Joe Louis, for the same reason.

No, I’m going to stand my ground on this one. Bowe was also excellent.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 04:17 No, I’m going to stand my ground on this one. Bowe was also excellent.

I never used to like Bowe,think it was because of the Lewis saga but as iv gotten older I appreciate him alot more and maybe if he would have fought Lewis he would of been too strong at that time. Imo the Bowe that beat Evander Beats the Lewis that beat Ruddock.

Djanders44 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 04:10

TheGman wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 16:42

Djanders44 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 13:40 I disagree with most, who think Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are the #1 and #2 greatest Heavyweights of all time. I've only jumped ship recently, after many decades of thought on the subject.

Who is your top 2 all time best heavy?

I have Holyfield at #1.

Good shout,he would of given anyone from any era problems.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 19:44

Cent0089 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 15:15 Well, this is my cases:
Ward vs Kovalev 1 was not a robbery, but ward should be DQ in rematch
Chris Eubank jr won against Saunders, he is very underrated
I am big fan of Canelo Alvarez since maybe 2010 (most of boxrec users hate him )
Losing last rounds have huge impact on the decision, that is reason i had Mosley winning both fights against De la Hoya
Wilder won first fight against Fury (not saying BS like it was a KO, but ive had him winning close decision)
Manny Pacqiao is top 3 ATG
Only robbery in Canelo record is first GGG fight, he won against Trout, Lara, and GGG rematch

Bjs beat Jr comfortably. I honestly don’t know what you watched. 7-5 at the very least.

It is case where i disagree with most people

that's the thread , no more unacceptable than thinking holmes is #1 ever

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:31 that's the thread , no more unacceptable than thinking holmes is #1 ever

Who would 100% beat a peak Larry at heavy?

I have Lewis at the 1st place at the all time HW ranking. Holyfield gotta be after him.

Holmes can't be higher than Ali, Frazier and Foreman, so I put him on the 6th place. I'd say, he was better than Louis and Marciano, these two follow afterwards.

Then there should be the likes of Tyson, Bowe, Norton, Wlad.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:52

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:31 that's the thread , no more unacceptable than thinking holmes is #1 ever

Who would 100% beat a peak Larry at heavy?

it's shades of ali and not shades of holmes for a reason

larry didnt have nearly the resume and he struggled /had torrid moments in a number of fights not necessarly vs all that great of opposition. relative to his level of opponent, he just seemed to have more lapses and vulnerability than the other elite atgs. im just not seeing the argument for him on either factor or a combo of them

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 04:43

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:52

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:31 that's the thread , no more unacceptable than thinking holmes is #1 ever

Who would 100% beat a peak Larry at heavy?

it's shades of ali and not shades of holmes for a reason

larry didnt have nearly the resume and he struggled /had torrid moments in a number of fights not necessarly vs all that great of opposition. relative to his level of opponent, he just seemed to have more lapses and vulnerability than the other elite atgs. im just not seeing the argument for him on either factor or a combo of them

I’ve seen every single one of all their bouts. Don’t get the blind spot with Lennox getting done by two fringe contenders at all. If Fury does AJ, he’ll be hard to disagree with, but I know everyone will think I’m mad.

After Fury wins Joshua, he'll be around top 10 for sure.

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:26 After Fury wins Joshua, he'll be around top 10 for sure.

I don’t even have Mike Tyson top ten. Let’s be real, Marciano was a light heavyweight/Cruiser. Ali was 15.5 peak. I could go on.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:32

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:26 After Fury wins Joshua, he'll be around top 10 for sure.

I don’t even have Mike Tyson top ten. Let’s be real, Marciano was a light heavyweight/Cruiser. Ali was 15.5 peak. I could go on.

You can't take away fighters from the ranking because some numbers changed with time. It's necessary to take into account the respective features of different eras.

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:36

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:32

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:26 After Fury wins Joshua, he'll be around top 10 for sure.

I don’t even have Mike Tyson top ten. Let’s be real, Marciano was a light heavyweight/Cruiser. Ali was 15.5 peak. I could go on.

You can't take away fighters from the ranking because some numbers changed with time. It's necessary to take into account the respective features of different eras.

I do. I think Mike Tyson was in a terrible era.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:41

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:36

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:32
I don’t even have Mike Tyson top ten. Let’s be real, Marciano was a light heavyweight/Cruiser. Ali was 15.5 peak. I could go on.

You can't take away fighters from the ranking because some numbers changed with time. It's necessary to take into account the respective features of different eras.

I do. I think Mike Tyson was in a terrible era.

Tyson's era wasn't terrible. It would have been the same as Holmes' one, if Larry wasn't able to capture still relevant Norton.

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:48

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:41

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:36

You can't take away fighters from the ranking because some numbers changed with time. It's necessary to take into account the respective features of different eras.

I do. I think Mike Tyson was in a terrible era.

Tyson's era wasn't terrible. It would have been the same as Holmes' one, if Larry wasn't able to capture still relevant Norton.

I still haven’t had anyone tell me who beats a prime Holmes.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 06:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:48

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:41
I do. I think Mike Tyson was in a terrible era.

Tyson's era wasn't terrible. It would have been the same as Holmes' one, if Larry wasn't able to capture still relevant Norton.

I still haven’t had anyone tell me who beats a prime Holmes.

I'd pick prime Lewis, Holyfield and Frazier over prime Holmes for sure. Prime Bowe probably too.

I also have Larry at number one all time. I believe that if he fought all the greats (prime v prime) three times, he'd come out the unanimous or majority winner against them all.

The ones that would come closest: Ali, Lewis and Bowe would give Holmes trouble and so would Wlad. I don't have Fury down as a great (yet) but I do believe he'd give Holmes a lot of trouble. There are several other fighters I think would beat Fury though.

An interesting point to highlight is that a prime Larry Holmes, had he cut weight, would have been about 190lbs. So he would almost certainly have been the greatest ever cruiserweight had he chosen to operate at that weight, At his best, he would have been about 10lbs lighter on fight night than the likes of Usyk and Gassiev were at cruiserweight!

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 06:34

mickey1975 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 06:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 05:48

Tyson's era wasn't terrible. It would have been the same as Holmes' one, if Larry wasn't able to capture still relevant Norton.

I still haven’t had anyone tell me who beats a prime Holmes.

I'd pick prime Lewis, Holyfield and Frazier over prime Holmes for sure. Prime Bowe probably too.

It’s all opinions. Bowe, maybe.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:52
Who would 100% beat a peak Larry at heavy?

Peak Ali

dr_devious wrote: ↑21 Jan 2021, 11:23

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2021, 21:52
Who would 100% beat a peak Larry at heavy?

Peak Ali

50-50.