BoxRec

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:23

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:14

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:00
You know precious little about boxing, or actual fighting, or photography, or much else in life.

Everyone (besides you) knows that photographs do not equate to actual weight. Utilizing them as evidence of your claim that FMJ was 20 pounds heavier than JMM on fight night is essentially an admission of defeat.

You are wrong, TriggereDicky_. You know you are wrong. All the real evidence points to you being wrong. Everyone on this board knows that you are wrong.

But, like your political hero, you lack the capacity to admit when you are wrong. You simply do not have the sac content.

Marquez, the man actually in the ring, claimed the weight difference to be around 20lb. I have superior knowledge of weight than you do, and a trained eye - i can confirm the combatants claim that 20lb is an accurate estimation. The 2 men being only 4lb apart on the scales the day before doesn't take into consideration conditioning. Mayweather doesn't have a wasted ounce on frame that had been expertly tailored to a 147 weight cut for around 4 years by 2009. Marquez was a man that could have made 126 in that very same training camp. For all intents and purposes this was a Welterweight vs a Featherweight. No amount of water & fat on Marquez' Featherweight frame changes that fact.

I've wasted far too much time trting to teach you a thing or 2 in this thread, if you still want to indulge in fantasy that FM vs JMM was a contest fought in the realms of fairness with regard to weight, by all means, as you were, you laughing stock.

You should try teaching yourself something other than how to wack your peepee to porn in your garage between posts waiting for someone to call you for a screenprinting job.

Everyone (including you) knows that you are wrong on this. You need serious counseling TriggereDicky. That is no joke.

All of evidence supports my position. Mayweather never 'jumped' weight - he spent over a year in each weight class, moving up 1 by 1, sculpting lean muscle along the way.

He scaled 147 in 2005 & was never less than 146 in the remainder of his career, spanning 12 more years.

It was also evidenced that he drained so hard to the WW limit he needed ILLEGAL IV therapy to rehydrate after weighing in.

Facts.

Marquez faught on the last day if February 2009 at Lightweight vs Juan Diaz. Less than a year previoys he was still at 130. 6 months later he's comoeting at Welterweight... vs a fully established champion at that weight (and former title holder in the division above).
Who adds 12lb of lean muscle in 6 months?

And where did Marquez' lean muscle he added to compete at Welterweight disappear to... when he weighed 133 in his next bout, 9 months later? Maybe he gave birth.

The bout was a farce, as are you.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:43

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:23

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:14

Marquez, the man actually in the ring, claimed the weight difference to be around 20lb. I have superior knowledge of weight than you do, and a trained eye - i can confirm the combatants claim that 20lb is an accurate estimation. The 2 men being only 4lb apart on the scales the day before doesn't take into consideration conditioning. Mayweather doesn't have a wasted ounce on frame that had been expertly tailored to a 147 weight cut for around 4 years by 2009. Marquez was a man that could have made 126 in that very same training camp. For all intents and purposes this was a Welterweight vs a Featherweight. No amount of water & fat on Marquez' Featherweight frame changes that fact.

I've wasted far too much time trting to teach you a thing or 2 in this thread, if you still want to indulge in fantasy that FM vs JMM was a contest fought in the realms of fairness with regard to weight, by all means, as you were, you laughing stock.

You should try teaching yourself something other than how to wack your peepee to porn in your garage between posts waiting for someone to call you for a screenprinting job.

Everyone (including you) knows that you are wrong on this. You need serious counseling TriggereDicky. That is no joke.

All of evidence supports my position. Mayweather never 'jumped' weight - he spent over a year in each weight class, moving up 1 by 1, sculpting lean muscle along the way.

He scaled 147 in 2005 & was never less than 146 in the remainder of his career, spanning 12 more years.

It was also evidenced that he drained so hard to the WW limit he needed ILLEGAL IV therapy to rehydrate after weighing in.

Facts.

Marquez faught on the last day if February 2009 at Lightweight vs Juan Diaz. Less than a year previoys he was still at 130. 6 months later he's comoeting at Welterweight... vs a fully established champion at that weight (and former title holder in the division above).
Who adds 12lb of lean muscle in 6 months?

And where did Marquez' lean muscle he added to compete at Welterweight disappear to... when he weighed 133 in his next bout, 9 months later? Maybe he gave birth.

The bout was a farce, as are you.

You are trying waaaay too hard TriggereDicky_.

The difference in weight in both fights was similar, possibly higher by % in the Nomassiah v Rigo fight.

Both challengers coming up in weight were jumping two weight classes.

Both challengers were considered highly on P4P lists, but JMM was actually number two at the time he fought FMJ.

Neither challenger had any real success in their respective fights.

The big difference is one fighter quit and the other did not.

It is a decent, though not perfect comparison.

You are a shameless nuthugger and hater TriggereDicky_.

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 12:41 The difference in weight in both fights was similar, possibly higher by % in the Nomassiah v Rigo fight.

Rigondeaux career highest weight prior to Superfeatherweight bout vs Lomachenko = 125.5 lb

= 4.5 lb lighter than the Superfeatherweight limit.

= 3.5% leap.


Marquez career highest weight prior to Welterweight bout vs Floyd Mayweather = 135.0 lb.

= 12 lb lighter than the Welterweight limit.

= 8.2% leap.


--------------------------

Rigondeaux heaviest opponent prior to Lomachenko = Adolfo Landeros, 125.0 lb

Lomachenko official weight: 129.0 lb

Difference: +4lb

% Difference: 3%



Marquez heaviest opponent prior to Mayweather = Casamayor, 135.0 lb

Mayweather Official weight: 146.0 lb

Difference: +11 lb
% Difference: 8%

-----

*Oh Yes face*.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 13:18

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 12:41 The difference in weight in both fights was similar, possibly higher by % in the Nomassiah v Rigo fight.

Rigondeaux career highest weight prior to Superfeatherweight bout vs Lomachenko = 125.5 lb

= 4.5 lb lighter than the Superfeatherweight limit.

= 3.5% leap.


Marquez career highest weight prior to Welterweight bout vs Floyd Mayweather = 135.0 lb.

= 12 lb lighter than the Welterweight limit.

= 8.2% leap.


--------------------------

Rigondeaux heaviest opponent prior to Lomachenko = Adolfo Landeros, 125.0 lb

Lomachenko official weight: 129.0 lb

Difference: +4lb

% Difference: 3%



Marquez heaviest opponent prior to Mayweather = Casamayor, 135.0 lb

Mayweather Official weight: 146.0 lb

Difference: +11 lb
% Difference: 8%

-----

*Oh Yes face*.

Sorry, alt reichmeister, that sh!t don’t fly on CS.

You claimed a 20 weight difference between FMJ and JMM. You are, have been, and will be full of sh!t every which way you try to paint it.

Your description of JMM as a “Mexican tear-up artist” is also pathetic, no matter what brand of cheap makeup you use on it.

Rigo was outclassed, undersized, and quit.

JMM was outclassed, undersized, and did not quit.

JMM has the superior resume and has defeated superior opposition than both Nomassiah and Rigo. The Ukrainian will likely surpass him, but that is yet to be seen. It will take more than that to surpass FMJ.

For the record, I hope that he does.

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 15:15

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 13:18

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 12:41 The difference in weight in both fights was similar, possibly higher by % in the Nomassiah v Rigo fight.

Rigondeaux career highest weight prior to Superfeatherweight bout vs Lomachenko = 125.5 lb

= 4.5 lb lighter than the Superfeatherweight limit.

= 3.5% leap.


Marquez career highest weight prior to Welterweight bout vs Floyd Mayweather = 135.0 lb.

= 12 lb lighter than the Welterweight limit.

= 8.2% leap.


--------------------------

Rigondeaux heaviest opponent prior to Lomachenko = Adolfo Landeros, 125.0 lb

Lomachenko official weight: 129.0 lb

Difference: +4lb

% Difference: 3%



Marquez heaviest opponent prior to Mayweather = Casamayor, 135.0 lb

Mayweather Official weight: 146.0 lb

Difference: +11 lb
% Difference: 8%

-----

*Oh Yes face*.

Sorry, alt reichmeister, that sh!t don’t fly on CS.

You claimed a 20 weight difference between FMJ and JMM. You are, have been, and will be full of sh!t every which way you try to paint it.

Your description of JMM as a “Mexican tear-up artist” is also pathetic, no matter what brand of cheap makeup you use on it.

Rigo was outclassed, undersized, and quit.

JMM was outclassed, undersized, and did not quit.

JMM has the superior resume and has defeated superior opposition than both Nomassiah and Rigo. The Ukrainian will likely surpass him, but that is yet to be seen. It will take more than that to surpass FMJ.

For the record, I hope that he does.

You've been outclassed in this argument worse than Rigondeaux was on Saturday. Oh Yes.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 16:04

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 15:15

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 13:18



Rigondeaux career highest weight prior to Superfeatherweight bout vs Lomachenko = 125.5 lb

= 4.5 lb lighter than the Superfeatherweight limit.

= 3.5% leap.


Marquez career highest weight prior to Welterweight bout vs Floyd Mayweather = 135.0 lb.

= 12 lb lighter than the Welterweight limit.

= 8.2% leap.


--------------------------

Rigondeaux heaviest opponent prior to Lomachenko = Adolfo Landeros, 125.0 lb

Lomachenko official weight: 129.0 lb

Difference: +4lb

% Difference: 3%



Marquez heaviest opponent prior to Mayweather = Casamayor, 135.0 lb

Mayweather Official weight: 146.0 lb

Difference: +11 lb
% Difference: 8%

-----

*Oh Yes face*.

Sorry, alt reichmeister, that sh!t don’t fly on CS.

You claimed a 20 weight difference between FMJ and JMM. You are, have been, and will be full of sh!t every which way you try to paint it.

Your description of JMM as a “Mexican tear-up artist” is also pathetic, no matter what brand of cheap makeup you use on it.

Rigo was outclassed, undersized, and quit.

JMM was outclassed, undersized, and did not quit.

JMM has the superior resume and has defeated superior opposition than both Nomassiah and Rigo. The Ukrainian will likely surpass him, but that is yet to be seen. It will take more than that to surpass FMJ.

For the record, I hope that he does.

You've been outclassed in this argument worse than Rigondeaux was on Saturday. Oh Yes.

You would have a great record, if you were the only judge, alt reichmeister.

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 15:15
Rigo was outclassed, undersized, and quit.

JMM was outclassed, undersized, and did not quit.

JMM has the superior resume and has defeated superior opposition than both Nomassiah and Rigo. The Ukrainian will likely surpass him, but that is yet to be seen. It will take more than that to surpass FMJ.

For the record, I hope that he does.

Floyd never beat any unbeaten boxer-punchers the caliber of Gary Russell, Nick Walters, and Guillermo Rigondeaux... And obviously his amateur career bears no resemblance to Lomachenko’s domination.

And there are many differences between May-JMM and Loma-Rigo…

If Rigondeaux didn't quit he would have gotten knocked out... The punch output was an avalanche of 1-way traffic and his best defense was desperate holding and wrestling – for which he was already deducted a point and might have actually lost 2 or 3 points for holding it was so ridiculous.. JMM wasn’t getting murdered. He was getting out-boxed. Floyd didn’t carry the same wallop P4P as Lomachenko.

It was fairly evident Rigo would soon quit, because he’s way too smart to hang in there and get hurt or knocked senseless in a hopeless cause.. Rigo got paid the same whether he gets knocked cold or quits to save himself from damage.. Four challengers in a row have quit in NoMasChenko fights – so it’s nothing out of the ordinary..

I also think Victor Ortiz deliberately took a powder in the Floyd fight because he didn’t want a 12-round beating... He tried to foul out – and then he wasn’t even paying attention when Floyd hit him twice with free shots on the chin.... He would have been much smarter to box out the round and then make up a reason to quit.

Kalan wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 16:18

Tanzio wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 15:15
Rigo was outclassed, undersized, and quit.

JMM was outclassed, undersized, and did not quit.

JMM has the superior resume and has defeated superior opposition than both Nomassiah and Rigo. The Ukrainian will likely surpass him, but that is yet to be seen. It will take more than that to surpass FMJ.

For the record, I hope that he does.

Floyd never beat any unbeaten boxer-punchers the caliber of Gary Russell, Nick Walters, and Guillermo Rigondeaux... And obviously his amateur career bears no resemblance to Lomachenko’s domination.

And there are many differences between May-JMM and Loma-Rigo…

If Rigondeaux didn't quit he would have gotten knocked out... The punch output was an avalanche of 1-way traffic and his best defense was desperate holding and wrestling – for which he was already deducted a point and might have actually lost 2 or 3 points for holding it was so ridiculous.. JMM wasn’t getting murdered. He was getting out-boxed. Floyd didn’t carry the same wallop P4P as Lomachenko.

It was fairly evident Rigo would soon quit, because he’s way too smart to hang in there and get hurt or knocked senseless in a hopeless cause.. Rigo got paid the same whether he gets knocked cold or quits to save himself from damage.. Four challengers in a row have quit in NoMasChenko fights – so it’s nothing out of the ordinary..

I also think Victor Ortiz deliberately took a powder in the Floyd fight because he didn’t want a 12-round beating... He tried to foul out – and then he wasn’t even paying attention when Floyd hit him twice with free shots on the chin.... He would have been much smarter to box out the round and then make up a reason to quit.

I am not taking the bait. I am no fan of FMJ.

If you are claiming that Nomassiah has a better resume than FMJ at this time, I won’t argue with you, but I do consider your opinion moronic.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:09 There was no 20-pound weight difference, but the real difference was much higher that nominal. At 142, Marquez had a flabby belly. He was a 135-pounder fighting a 147-pounder also having a huge reach advantage. Size mismatch in that fight played much bigger role than in the Loma vs Rigo fight.

What a lot of people forget about that fight is that it was JMM that called Floyd out, after Arum said no to Pac fighting Floyd at 147 after Floyd's 2 yr retirement. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds in the fight were only 2-1 in favor of Floyd. I would say that a slight weight advantage kind of equals out since Floyd was off for 2 years.

Badhusker wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:15

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:09 There was no 20-pound weight difference, but the real difference was much higher that nominal. At 142, Marquez had a flabby belly. He was a 135-pounder fighting a 147-pounder also having a huge reach advantage. Size mismatch in that fight played much bigger role than in the Loma vs Rigo fight.

What a lot of people forget about that fight is that it was JMM that called Floyd out, after Arum said no to Pac fighting Floyd at 147 after Floyd's 2 yr retirement. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds in the fight were only 2-1 in favor of Floyd. I would say that a slight weight advantage kind of equals out since Floyd was off for 2 years.

Potential its a wonderful thing we all got it if potential made you great fornicate me dead i'd be A LEGEND ALSO.

Definitely possible. This is one extremely special fighter. Sit back and enjoy the ride, don't hate. Would be amazing if we witness him becoming the greatest ever.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:23

Badhusker wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:15

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 11:09 There was no 20-pound weight difference, but the real difference was much higher that nominal. At 142, Marquez had a flabby belly. He was a 135-pounder fighting a 147-pounder also having a huge reach advantage. Size mismatch in that fight played much bigger role than in the Loma vs Rigo fight.

What a lot of people forget about that fight is that it was JMM that called Floyd out, after Arum said no to Pac fighting Floyd at 147 after Floyd's 2 yr retirement. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds in the fight were only 2-1 in favor of Floyd. I would say that a slight weight advantage kind of equals out since Floyd was off for 2 years.

Something I said inaccurate Ricky/Jip? Tanzio embarassed you so bad you should go into hiding. You are living proof that some people are too dumb to realize how dumb they actually are.

21 months off is not a big deal....

Especially since Ray Leonard came back from 3 years off and had his best win... Vitali Klitschko took 4 years off and won the Heavyweight Title in his first fight back with no tuneups... Ali took 3 years off and was very speedy and sharp on his return... Floyd probably fought the best fight of his life because all his nagging injuries healed.

Floyd would have been back in 19 months but Lamont Peterson messed up his ribs in training with a few well-placed body shots.. Floyd had to postpone the fight.. That time off in NO WAY equates to coming up 2 weight divisions in 1 fight.. Especially when Marquez fought most of his career at Featherweight and last fought as a small lightweight....

Marquez was a very soft 142 and the contract weight was 144... Floyd obliterated the obligation to carve down to 144 – by coming in at 146 and paying Marquez 600,000 dollars for the privilege... It’s a new day in sports... Moneyed super stars can buy themselves extended advantages over their opponents – significantly increasing the advantages they enjoy.

Marquez never came close to making Welterweight... Rigondeaux came within a solid pound of Lomachenko at the weigh-in ... and he looked very strong. As it is... Lomachenko performed better than Floyd and allowed far fewer punches to connect... Rigondeaux was a double Olympic Gold Medal Winner and undefeated... Andre Ward ranked him the best P4P boxer in the Sport... Marquez had been beaten several times and was an easy target at Welter as Tim Bradley proved.

Kalan wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 21:08 21 months off is not a big deal....

Especially since Ray Leonard came back from 3 years off and had his best win... Vitali Klitschko took 4 years off and won the Heavyweight Title in his first fight back with no tuneups... Ali took 3 years off and was very speedy and sharp on his return... Floyd probably fought the best fight of his life because all his nagging injuries healed.

Floyd would have been back in 19 months but Lamont Peterson messed up his ribs in training with a few well-placed body shots.. Floyd had to postpone the fight.. That time off in NO WAY equates to coming up 2 weight divisions in 1 fight.. Especially when Marquez fought most of his career at Featherweight and last fought as a small lightweight....

Marquez was a very soft 142 and the contract weight was 144... Floyd obliterated the obligation to carve down to 144 – by coming in at 146 and paying Marquez 600,000 dollars for the privilege... It’s a new day in sports... Moneyed super stars can buy themselves extended advantages over their opponents – significantly increasing the advantages they enjoy.

Marquez never came close to making Welterweight... Rigondeaux came within a solid pound of Lomachenko at the weigh-in ... and he looked very strong. As it is... Lomachenko performed better than Floyd and allowed far fewer punches to connect... Rigondeaux was a double Olympic Gold Medal Winner and undefeated... Andre Ward ranked him the best P4P boxer in the Sport... Marquez had been beaten several times and was an easy target at Welter as Tim Bradley proved.

I do not agree that Nomassiah performed better v Rigo than FMJ did v JMM. They were both virtual whitewashes. The difference is Rigo quit.

I do not agree that Rigo was more accomplished in the pros up to Saturday night than JMM was at the time he fought FMJ. JMM was P4P #2. He had fought far more accomplished competition than Rigo had, and it is not close.

Everyone knows the facts about FMJ’s decision not to boil down to 144 and the fact that JMM accepted a payoff to not cancel the fight. That in no way is evidence of TriggereDicky_’s claim that FMJ was 20 pounds heavier than JMM on fight night. All credible evidence points to the difference in weight being about ten pounds. Photos are not evidence.

JMM’s acceptance of the $600,000 is not unlike Nomassiah’s acceptance of Salido’s failure to make weight, which cost the Ukrainian his 0. The fact that JMM looked soft at 142+ does not excuse the fact that Rigo actually performed softer, quitting after 6 rounds.

Your attempt to dismiss inactivity with oneoff examples is pitiful. Shall I post the exponentially longer list of boxers who came back after inactivity at a significantly diminished level? Hell no! It is obvious to anyone not making a disingenuos argument.

Furthermore, to suggest that JMM was an easy target at 147 based on the very competitive Bradley fight suggests you did not bother to watch it at all. And, of course you ignore the fact that JMM Ktfo the ATG Manny Pacquiao at welter.

Rigo’s pro legacy does not, and will never live up to that of JMM’s. Nomassiah has the potential to be an ATG and a GOAT, but do not denigrate the designations and those great athletes who have earned them by in anyway suggesting that he has earned his place among them, yet.

Tanzio

JMM was a great boxer, maybe the best mexican boxer ever, top 40 ATG.

Sure did he had a better career than rigo, but rigo is the better boxer.

Look, it aint about career what is talked in this thread, it is about quality of a boxer. When i see a clip of prime jones and dont say "wow this is the best boxer ever" because of his sensational career, but because he was fantastic inside the ring. Jones career compared to robinson or leonard is poor, but jones is the better boxer. People me included are just shocked how good loma is as a boxer, career wise, he will have never 100 fights or beat 3 ATG like leonard. But just like jones some consider loma Goat or possible Goat. Quality>Career

Badhusker wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 20:18

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:23

Badhusker wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:15

What a lot of people forget about that fight is that it was JMM that called Floyd out, after Arum said no to Pac fighting Floyd at 147 after Floyd's 2 yr retirement. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds in the fight were only 2-1 in favor of Floyd. I would say that a slight weight advantage kind of equals out since Floyd was off for 2 years.

Something I said inaccurate Ricky/Jip? Tanzio embarassed you so bad you should go into hiding. You are living proof that some people are too dumb to realize how dumb they actually are.

Numbers don't lie. But hey Tanzio, at least you got an endorsement from Brut. That's something right?

Ricky_ wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 00:17

Badhusker wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 20:18

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:23

Something I said inaccurate Ricky/Jip? Tanzio embarassed you so bad you should go into hiding. You are living proof that some people are too dumb to realize how dumb they actually are.

Numbers don't lie. But hey Tanzio, at least you got an endorsement from Brut. That's something right?

I told you before dumbass, to ask any mod if I was the same. You, on the other hand seem to forget if you are logged in as Ricky or Jip.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 00:17

Badhusker wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 20:18

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:23

Something I said inaccurate Ricky/Jip? Tanzio embarassed you so bad you should go into hiding. You are living proof that some people are too dumb to realize how dumb they actually are.

Numbers don't lie. But hey Tanzio, at least you got an endorsement from Brut. That's something right?

You think Badhusker is turB? And Obama was born in Nigeronesia, riiight alt reichmeister TriggereDicky? You have wacked all the brains out of your bellend.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 00:17

Badhusker wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 20:18

Ricky_ wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:23

Something I said inaccurate Ricky/Jip? Tanzio embarassed you so bad you should go into hiding. You are living proof that some people are too dumb to realize how dumb they actually are.

Numbers don't lie. But hey Tanzio, at least you got an endorsement from Brut. That's something right?

Yep, alt reichmeister TriggereDicky_, there it is.