BoxRec

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 08:59

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 06:42 On the balance of things I would favour someone with all the physical and weight advantages combined with one punch finishing power. Marciano got hit plenty, he was no Mayweather, it wouldn't take long for Wilder to land a right hand on him.

well, he had to hit johann duhaupas with everything, and i think, he can take out marciano with one shot, but suppose he cant, and the way he had to hit duhaupas with everything is the way he has to try to beat marciano.

It’s a myth that Marciano could just hit someone and it was fight over. Look how many rounds he had to pound on Moore and Cockell. He wore guys down by clubbing them to defeat and these were not big guys.

Does Walcott not count?

Walcott was just a soft, wimpy guy though, wasn't he? Just wasn't athletic was enough, was he?

A lot of comment have made, hard to keep up with them. (Sorry to duran 70 who I grouped in with people who thoughtlessly picked Wilder due to the scale and/or the tape measure.)

Well may be we are making progress. For years, people have been obsessed with weight. Seems some have figured out that since countless times the lighter guy has beaten the heavier guy might mean something.

Love the argument that today's big heavyweights are more athletic than the big ones years ago. Vitaly Klitschko ? Please.
How about Buster Mathis? Which heavyweight today is better on his feet than him? Abe Simon, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer would do just fine nowadays.

Now we are going with height and reach. Well, can we at least discuss that? Do we have just assume that they are things that can't be overcome?
Do all tall guys have great jabs? Are they all accurate? How many tall guys are good on the inside? How come throughout history, there have so many times where shorter, guys with less reach have been able to beat taller guys?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:01

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 08:59


well, he had to hit johann duhaupas with everything, and i think, he can take out marciano with one shot, but suppose he cant, and the way he had to hit duhaupas with everything is the way he has to try to beat marciano.

It’s a myth that Marciano could just hit someone and it was fight over. Look how many rounds he had to pound on Moore and Cockell. He wore guys down by clubbing them to defeat and these were not big guys.

Does Walcott not count?

There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

So who is the bigger puncher Wilder or Marciano?

Hard to say. They're both huge punchers. Cockell was fairly durable. Certainly better than Molina or duhaupas.

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:52

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:01

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28

It’s a myth that Marciano could just hit someone and it was fight over. Look how many rounds he had to pound on Moore and Cockell. He wore guys down by clubbing them to defeat and these were not big guys.

Does Walcott not count?

There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

So who is the bigger puncher Wilder or Marciano?

There is no way to know who is a bigger puncher.

Can I see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds?

Can you see Marciano pounding on Eric Molina for 9 rounds?

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28 There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

marciano has the highest heavyweight ko percentage ever at 88% most coming by ko not tko. he wore guys down, but when he hit you full on the money, you were through.

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:41 Jack Dempsey was born in 18-something, Well over a 100 years ago, what could he possibly know about 2018 boxers?

how to punch.

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:41 Jack Dempsey was born in 18-something, Well over a 100 years ago, what could he possibly know about 2018 boxers?

I'm pretty sure that boxing is still two blokes in the ring punching each other.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:31

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28 There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

marciano has the highest heavyweight ko percentage ever at 88% most coming by ko not tko. he wore guys down, but when he hit you full on the money, you were through.

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:41 Jack Dempsey was born in 18-something, Well over a 100 years ago, what could he possibly know about 2018 boxers?

how to punch.

Agreed that rocky could really swat but ko% is the most useless statistic in boxing. Someone like vitali, who was an average puncher, running up knockouts simply by being huge and facing very weak opposition.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:44 Someone like vitali, who was an average puncher, running up knockouts simply by being huge and facing very weak opposition.

but most by tko not ko.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:31

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 11:28 There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

marciano has the highest heavyweight ko percentage ever at 88% most coming by ko not tko. he wore guys down, but when he hit you full on the money, you were through.

Surely Joshua and Wilder have better KO percentages?

Marciano generally fought blown up LHWs, fighters not that much bigger than Marciano. They were generally fighters coming to the end of their careers or not really HWs. This goes back to the point that the best guys in recent years are big and not blown up LHWs or CWs. If blown up LHWs and CWs could compete fairly today where are they?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:17

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:52

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:01

Does Walcott not count?

There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

So who is the bigger puncher Wilder or Marciano?

There is no way to know who is a bigger puncher.

Can I see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds?

Can you see Marciano pounding on Eric Molina for 9 rounds?

I see Wilder having a far easier time against Cockell than Marciano would have against Molina.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:46

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:44 Someone like vitali, who was an average puncher, running up knockouts simply by being huge and facing very weak opposition.

but most by tko not ko.

That has no bearing on the ko%.

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:51

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:17

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 12:52

There are always exceptions in anyone’s career however generally speaking Marciano wore the top guys down by clubbing them to defeat. If you look at Marcianos title fights they were mostly hard fights,. 13 rounds, 1 round, 11 rounds, 15 rounds, 8 rounds and 9 rounds. Marciano was a good puncher, I have never said he wasn’t but not the huge puncher many would have you believe. Walcott was twice knocked out with one punch but that isn’t a reflection of all Marciano’s top wins. Can you see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds, he would’ve flattened him in no time.

So who is the bigger puncher Wilder or Marciano?

There is no way to know who is a bigger puncher.

Can I see Wilder pounding on Cockell for 8 rounds?

Can you see Marciano pounding on Eric Molina for 9 rounds?

I see Wilder having a far easier time against Cockell than Marciano would have against Molina.

Neither would have any trouble.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:56 That has no bearing on the ko%.

it does say something about punching power.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:06

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:56 That has no bearing on the ko%.

it does say something about punching power.

Depends on who you're fighting.

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:49 Surely Joshua and Wilder have better KO percentages?

they one day may. but not just yet.

Controversial wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 13:49 Marciano generally fought blown up LHWs, fighters not that much bigger than Marciano. They were generally fighters coming to the end of their careers or not really HWs. This goes back to the point that the best guys in recent years are big and not blown up LHWs or CWs. If blown up LHWs and CWs could compete fairly today where are they?

or said differently, we know marciano can ko small heavyweights, but can he ko big heavyweights? i say yes.

Yes they do.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:07 Depends on who you're fighting.

well, everybody beats up cans, but not mostly by ko.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:11 Yes they do.

you have to go by career. they still have a ways to go.

@ you coming to the history section to further fellate your beloved povetkin. He is an average puncher at his best, above average after his ped binge.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:16

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:11 Yes they do.

you have to go by career. they still have a ways to go.

What are you talking about? A career is a final statistic, that doesn't make current statistics invalid.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:18 What are you talking about? A career is a final statistic, that doesn't make current statistics invalid.

you can compare when they get to 49 bouts.

Yuzo wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:20

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018, 14:18 What are you talking about? A career is a final statistic, that doesn't make current statistics invalid.

you can compare when they get to 49 bouts.

One obvious massive difference between the big heavyweights of today and those of the pre-90s is that they are dominating the division whereas in prior eras they never came close to dominating and often never even made it to the top 10. There is an enormous difference in results. They also look better on film.

Look at who Simon, Carnera, etc lost to relative to Lewis, Vitali, etc

Most people today see Wladimir Klitschko as a great heavyweight along with Lewis. The same is not true for Carnera, Willard, etc and the results back up such an assessment.