BoxRec

I’ve predicted Thurman by decision. Manny is no doubt a legend but imo this is his hardest fight since FMJ and JMM before that - and it’s coming very late in his career. I’m conflicted as to Thurman. Many people are saying he is a shot fighter after one return fight. Personally I can’t accept that due to his age and after just one fight where he was mostly dominate. Of course I could be very wrong. We shall see, that’s what’s exciting for me.

Ricky wrote: ↑16 Jul 2019, 08:20

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Jul 2019, 04:26 Is there any VADA testing for this bout?

Manny’s career-best performances came during a period when he wasn’t being tested, due to his own reluctance.

The answer to this question determines my prediction for the outcome of this bout.

Pacquiao was tested as much any other fighter was tested, until Floyd TUE Mayweather needed an excuse not to fight him.

That’s irrelevant. Pacquiao often refused to undergo random unannounced blood-based testing.

During his “prime” years, when he delivered some of his most “remarkable” performances, he wasn’t tested.

You can attempt to challenge the validity of the two sentences above if you want, but if you know anything about Manny Pacquiao, you’ll surely appreciate the fact that this would be futile.

Hence the reason why you’re employing red herring debating tactics, by drawing comparison to other fighters.

It is Thursday. Can we please get back to THIS fight. Pac v FMJ is a canker sore on the sphincter of boxing.

I think the keys to THIS fight are:

1. Can Manny avoid Once Upon A Time’s early power?

2. How does Once Upon A Time deal with Pac’s Southpaw mongoose style?

3. Can Manny get Once Upon A Time’s respect early on and get the American doing a unicycle routine around the ring?

If Manny can get through round 4 without getting seriously hurt, this fight is up for grabs. I doubt very much that Pac can stop Once Upon A Time. But, he can get his respect and nullify his early power.

If that happens, Pac can win this on aggression. This is a huge ask for Manny, but The Senator is still something very special.

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:11 It is Thursday. Can we please get back to THIS fight. Pac v FMJ is a canker sore on the sphincter of boxing.

I think the keys to THIS fight are:

1. Can Manny avoid Once Upon A Time’s early power?

2. How does Once Upon A Time deal with Pac’s Southpaw mongoose style?

3. Can Manny get Once Upon A Time’s respect early on and get the American doing a unicycle routine around the ring?

If Manny can get through round 4 without getting seriously hurt, this fight is up for grabs. I doubt very much that Pac can stop Once Upon A Time. But, he can get his respect and nullify his early power.

If that happens, Pac can win this on aggression. This is a huge ask for Manny, but The Senator is still something very special.

Special for 40.

But put him in there with one of the best welterweights out there, and that special look will eventually look like something else: old age.

Thurman is a far different level than Algieri, Vargas, Matthysse, Horn and Broner.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:30

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:11 It is Thursday. Can we please get back to THIS fight. Pac v FMJ is a canker sore on the sphincter of boxing.

I think the keys to THIS fight are:

1. Can Manny avoid Once Upon A Time’s early power?

2. How does Once Upon A Time deal with Pac’s Southpaw mongoose style?

3. Can Manny get Once Upon A Time’s respect early on and get the American doing a unicycle routine around the ring?

If Manny can get through round 4 without getting seriously hurt, this fight is up for grabs. I doubt very much that Pac can stop Once Upon A Time. But, he can get his respect and nullify his early power.

If that happens, Pac can win this on aggression. This is a huge ask for Manny, but The Senator is still something very special.

Special for 40.

But put him in there with one of the best welterweights out there, and that special look will eventually look like something else: old age.

Thurman is a far different level than Algieri, Vargas, Matthysse, Horn and Broner.

He wasn’t v Josesito. I would take all of those (with the possible exception of Matthysse) over Josesito right now.

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:42

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:30

Special for 40.

But put him in there with one of the best welterweights out there, and that special look will eventually look like something else: old age.

Thurman is a far different level than Algieri, Vargas, Matthysse, Horn and Broner.

He wasn’t v Josesito. I would take all of those (with the possible exception of Matthysse) over Josesito right now.

Lopez is a tough, rugged guy. Especially when you've been out for nearly 2 years.

I believe he's competitive and can beat all those Pacquiao victims.

Only Canelo had any easy time with him at that was at 154.

Fighting Lopez was a good move for Thurman. Gave him a physical challenge and tore off plenty rust.

Is Thurman back to his best form? Don't know. But he won't need to be to beat a 40 year old fighter. About 85% of vintage Thurman is enough.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:51

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:42
He wasn’t v Josesito. I would take all of those (with the possible exception of Matthysse) over Josesito right now.

Lopez is a tough, rugged guy. Especially when you've been out for nearly 2 years.

I believe he's competitive and can beat all those Pacquiao victims.

Only Canelo had any easy time with him at that was at 154.

Fighting Lopez was a good move for Thurman. Gave him a physical challenge and tore off plenty rust.

Is Thurman back to his best form? Don't know. But he won't need to be to beat a 40 year old fighter. About 85% of vintage Thurman is enough.

Maidana and Berto stopped him in 6, years ago.

You claim Thurman is not the level of the fighters that Pac has been defeating. Josesito is not in the same solar system as a 40 year old Manny.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 08:43

Ricky wrote: ↑16 Jul 2019, 08:20

Pacquiao was tested as much any other fighter was tested, until Floyd TUE Mayweather needed an excuse not to fight him.

That’s irrelevant.

incorrect.

ironbeard wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 12:00

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 11:51

Lopez is a tough, rugged guy. Especially when you've been out for nearly 2 years.

I believe he's competitive and can beat all those Pacquiao victims.

Only Canelo had any easy time with him at that was at 154.

Fighting Lopez was a good move for Thurman. Gave him a physical challenge and tore off plenty rust.

Is Thurman back to his best form? Don't know. But he won't need to be to beat a 40 year old fighter. About 85% of vintage Thurman is enough.

Maidana and Berto stopped him in 6, years ago.

You claim Thurman is not the level of the fighters that Pac has been defeating. Josesito is not in the same solar system as a 40 year old Manny.

I put Thurman by decision, but would love Pacman to win.
At one stage in his career Thurman was exciting but those days are gone and I think he's overrated.

brilo33 wrote: ↑18 May 2019, 19:36

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 May 2019, 15:01 I think people are underestimating Thurman. Maybe his hunger.

After he beat Garcia, he was considered #1 WW with many outlets. No?

I think people got bored with his inactivity and in his absence Crawford moved up, Spence became champion, Porter has regained a world title. But it’s Crawford and Spence who many have as #1 and #2 in whichever order.

Thurman has better wins than both of them at WW put together. But his inactivity has no doubt hurt him.

It’s funny cuz many are saying Thurman is no match for Spence. Wtf?! Even in Crawford’s case, his team are saying sack Garcia, Porter & Thurman, they ONLY want Spence.

Either people have forgotten how good Thurman can be or people are just bored of him and moved on.

when thurman beat Guerrero, i thought he showed he was more than a banger, he can box aswell, i just feel there is a light gone out in him , taking a long time out aswell, i know he was back at the start of the year , just if your champ surely you would want to be fighting as much as possible

forgot thurman was out with an injury, his last fight was disappointing, but it was a long lay off and he did win which became a tought fight in the end , going thurman ko win , a good thurman can win this fight , he has a solid defense , he can box on the back foot , which he will have to do , counter with big shots , i think manny looked good in his last fight , if i were many i would try to bring 1 time in to the later rounds wouldnt risk to much earlier , because how much has 1 time left in the tank or heart , going mid rd ko thurman

I’m neutral here. Don’t really care as who wins. May it be a great fight and the best man winZ no controversy.

I want Manny to win but think that Thurman will be mostly running and will get a hometown decision.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 16:29 I want Manny to win but think that Thurman will be mostly running and will get a hometown decision.

Las Vegas used to be Pac's adopted hometown. At least for boxing.

Couldn't lose there. At least until he started losing

But now it's Thurman's?? Tampa or even New York. But a hometown decision for Thurman in Las Vegas?

I never realized that he was a beloved figure there.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 16:58

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 16:29 I want Manny to win but think that Thurman will be mostly running and will get a hometown decision.

Las Vegas used to be Pac's adopted hometown. At least for boxing.

Couldn't lose there. At least until he started losing

But now it's Thurman's?? Tampa or even New York. But a hometown decision for Thurman in Las Vegas?

I never realized that he was a beloved figure there.

Thurman is the up coming guy. More money to make with a guy still young in the sport. And Bradley didn't get a questionable decision over Manny in Vegas.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 17:11

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 16:58

Las Vegas used to be Pac's adopted hometown. At least for boxing.

Couldn't lose there. At least until he started losing

But now it's Thurman's?? Tampa or even New York. But a hometown decision for Thurman in Las Vegas?

I never realized that he was a beloved figure there.

Thurman is the up coming guy. More money to make with a guy still young in the sport. And Bradley didn't get a questionable decision over Manny in Vegas.

Is he really up and coming to you?

Thurman is 30 and has been a pro nearly 12 years. Pretty much a grizzled veteran.

I don't see him as any sort of major attraction. Respected, but Thurman lacks the It Factor.

Even a one sided win over Pacquiao won't significantly increase his visibly in the sport. He's kind of blah on the charisma scale.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 18:23

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 17:11

Thurman is the up coming guy. More money to make with a guy still young in the sport. And Bradley didn't get a questionable decision over Manny in Vegas.

Is he really up and coming to you?

Thurman is 30 and has been a pro nearly 12 years. Pretty much a grizzled veteran.

I don't see him as any sort of major attraction. Respected, but Thurman lacks the It Factor.

Even a one sided win over Pacquiao won't significantly increase his visibly in the sport. He's kind of blah on the charisma scale.

have to agree with you on all of that really

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 18:23

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 17:11

Thurman is the up coming guy. More money to make with a guy still young in the sport. And Bradley didn't get a questionable decision over Manny in Vegas.

Is he really up and coming to you?

Thurman is 30 and has been a pro nearly 12 years. Pretty much a grizzled veteran.

I don't see him as any sort of major attraction. Respected, but Thurman lacks the It Factor.

Even a one sided win over Pacquiao won't significantly increase his visibly in the sport. He's kind of blah on the charisma scale.

He has more to gain in a win for the promoters than Pacquiao does.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 10:50

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Jul 2019, 18:23

Is he really up and coming to you?

Thurman is 30 and has been a pro nearly 12 years. Pretty much a grizzled veteran.

I don't see him as any sort of major attraction. Respected, but Thurman lacks the It Factor.

Even a one sided win over Pacquiao won't significantly increase his visibly in the sport. He's kind of blah on the charisma scale.

He has more to gain in a win for the promoters than Pacquiao does.

Black fighters just don't sell well these days.

Pacquiao will always have his Filipino fan base coming out to support him.

Even today he attracted around 400,00 buys for his Broner bout.

Would Thurman, even with a win over Pacquiao, come close to matching that number?

Probably few than half.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 11:43

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 10:50

He has more to gain in a win for the promoters than Pacquiao does.

Black fighters just don't sell well these days.

Pacquiao will always have his Filipino fan base coming out to support him.

Even today he attracted around 400,00 buys for his Broner bout.

Would Thurman, even with a win over Pacquiao, come close to matching that number?

Probably few than half.

I disagree with focusing on race as a reason / classifier. I prefer to see individuals who box.

There is no escaping the fact that race has been hyper charged by divisive rhetoric in the 21st Century. Nationalism has also resurged.

Black, white, Latin American, Ugandan, Ukrainian, etc., are just boxers, friends, peers, co-workers, neighbors, citizens, adversaries; humans.

ironbeard wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 12:36

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 11:43

Black fighters just don't sell well these days.

Pacquiao will always have his Filipino fan base coming out to support him.

Even today he attracted around 400,00 buys for his Broner bout.

Would Thurman, even with a win over Pacquiao, come close to matching that number?

Probably few than half.

I disagree with focusing on race as a reason / classifier. I prefer to see individuals who box.

There is no escaping the fact that race has been hyper charged by divisive rhetoric in the 21st Century. Nationalism has also resurged.

Black, white, Latin American, Ugandan, Ukrainian, etc., are just boxers, friends, peers, co-workers, neighbors, citizens, adversaries; humans.

Boxing has always sold itself on fighters' ethnicities.

Certainly not today to the same degree that it was decades ago, but race and nationalism still play a huge role in attracting fans to certain fighters.

For whatever reason, black fighters just don't draw well overall any longer. There was a time, of course, when boxing was the only sport that employed black athletes. Black fans rallied around these fighters.

But it's no longer the case. Blacks dominate American athletics and the niche sport of boxing no longer has much fervent fan support, black or otherwise.

Black attention is instead focused on other, more visible sports.

It will take another Mayweather-like superbly skilled, charismatic black fighter to lure black fans back to the sport. Asking for the second coming of Ali is asking for far too much.

But if Thurman has remained a semi-anonymous figure after 12 years as pro, I wouldn't expect that a win over Pacquiao will suddenly make him into a major cult hero to blacks.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 13:02

ironbeard wrote: ↑19 Jul 2019, 12:36

I disagree with focusing on race as a reason / classifier. I prefer to see individuals who box.

There is no escaping the fact that race has been hyper charged by divisive rhetoric in the 21st Century. Nationalism has also resurged.

Black, white, Latin American, Ugandan, Ukrainian, etc., are just boxers, friends, peers, co-workers, neighbors, citizens, adversaries; humans.

. . . the niche sport of boxing no longer has much fervent fan support, black or otherwise.

“Black or otherwise” is unnecessary in the statement.

If Sometimes Thurman gets beaten by ol' Pac then he could call it a day and play on the flute as much as he wishes.