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Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:09
by Nondescript
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:07
Me too. Although they would make a crackin' scrape.
I wish we would have seen the Whyte-Ortiz fight to determine it, but hey that's the shit show which is boxing
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:14
by Onetimeonly
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:34
eh not really sure about wilder having an injury that caused him not to beat fury, fury is just way better defensively and more akward then anyone hed faced. the 'staring contest' is something fury opponents often go into with fury. wilders stamina also looked worse then it ever had, and his accuracy was bad too for what he did throw. also looked psychologically not confident for most of the fight. usually hes brash
i think most of this is down to fury . they are about the same.. i had fury winning but it was close, but i dont think wilder was at any lower a condition then fury. fury could also get in better shape i think if we are looking for potential improvements. he could win the rematch with a better finish or he could get caught and taken out
the rematch is the second most interesting fight at hw that should get made
Perhaps it was just fury. Deontay is the furthest thing from a technical genius. I was saying during the fight that he was pushing it at odd angles and that matched up to the claim afterwards. He'll struggle to land anyway, but I find it to be an interesting aspect of the rematch. I expect them both to be better and, injury or not, I won't be dropping another 2k underestimating fury.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:16
by oogiebe
Nondescript wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:09
True! Let's be honest though, Breazeale was a sitting duck lol
Granted, but you said that Wilder would NEVER catch Fury like that.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:17
by Onetimeonly
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 14:45
why would a hand injury mean he can throw looping but not straight? breazeale is just a punch bag, totally opposite of fury
It wasn't his hand it was his arm.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:18
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:17
It wasn't his hand it was his arm.
Actually his elbow (and hand had just had surgery) which is why he was throwing at odd angles in my opinion.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:28
by Nondescript
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:16
Granted, but you said that Wilder would NEVER catch Fury like that.
I was just saying it's highly unlikely.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:30
by oogiebe
Nondescript wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:28
I was just saying it's highly unlikely.
I think he can catch him. Less likely than vs other fighters.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:31
by jamamb
curious, how do you decide it was because he was injured and couldnt throw straight rights, rather then he suddenly is throwing them less against a vaslty better boxer and mover then anyone hes faced, who is known to mess with guys outputs
and then as soon as he goes back to a straight ahead opponent, his straight right is there
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:35
by jamamb
that said, what the first fight did show is that even if wilders output drops, his stamina looks worse then ever, his accuraacy is mostly woeful, his confidence looks shot.........he still has the power and speed to land enough , and big enough, to bail him out when he needs it
must be frustrating for a guy like fury to win so many rounds but then have his lead evaporated with just a couple of shots.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:35
by Onetimeonly
Something looked wrong with his arm from the start of the fight to me. Not discrediting fury, that's how it looked to me. I didn't decide anything about it, just an observation. I don't know for sure, none of us do.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:36
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:31
curious, how do you decide it was because he was injured and couldnt throw straight rights, rather then he suddenly is throwing them less against a vaslty better boxer and mover then anyone hes faced, who is known to mess with guys outputs
and then as soon as he goes back to a straight ahead opponent, his straight right is there
He had had surgery on his hand and elbow between the Ortiz fight and Fury. I've had that kind of surgery as well and it can make your joint quite stiff. It may have felt better by fight time, but it is possible that he got into bad habits in training due to the effects. It's possible. It doesn't take away Fury's performance it just makes a compelling story for the rematch. I've never seen a veteran pro be 100% without some sorts of aches and/or pain.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:42
by jamamb
it couldve been an injury, as much as ive said 'excuses' its true that injuries due happen and can impact performances
i am actually picking wilder again anyway. i thought he looked absolutely terrible for much of that fight yet still he managed a draw and i had it close. maybe scoring that late kd givess him more confidence to let his hands go more earlier too, seeing the effect it had
on the other hand, fury did fade a bit late and maybe he can get in a bit better shape. we havent been getting all the big fights we want, but now some good rematches at least
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:45
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:42
it couldve been an injury, as much as ive said 'excuses' its true that injuries due happen and can impact performances
i am actually picking wilder again anyway. i thought he looked absolutely terrible for much of that fight yet still he managed a draw and i had it close. maybe scoring that late kd givess him more confidence to let his hands go more earlier too, seeing the effect it had
on the other hand, fury did fade a bit late and maybe he can get in a bit better shape. we havent been getting all the big fights we want, but now some good rematches at least
Unfortunately, I don't see Fury sustaining the work habits (discipline) that got him into that shape for that fight.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:47
by jamamb
it depends, conditioning can be a cumulative thing and hes had more time now to work his way into ideal shape after his time out. if he keeps that focus, he can, but ya he could also go off things too
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:49
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:47
it depends, conditioning can be a cumulative thing and hes had more time now to work his way into ideal shape after his time out. if he keeps that focus, he can, but ya he could also go off things too
It can take a lifetime to get into shape and about 4-5 weeks to lose it. Believe me, I know! LMAO!
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:53
by jamamb
the unfortunate reality of things
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 15:55
by oogiebe
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:53
the unfortunate reality of things
I hate mirrors more and more every day!
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:09
by Nondescript
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 15:30
I think he can catch him. Less likely than vs other fighters.
If you watch that fight again though, Fury wad rolling under a lot of Wilder's attempted right hands and making him miss wildly. Breazeale doesn't have that capability, so he was like static object, just waiting for a right hand to detonate on his chin.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:11
by oogiebe
Nondescript wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:09
If you watch that fight again though, Fury wad rolling under a lot of Wilder's attempted right hands and making him miss wildly. Breazeale doesn't have that capability, so he was like static object, just waiting for a right hand to detonate on his chin.
Of course. Again, I'm not comparing the two fighters. That would be silly.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:52
by Nondescript
oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:11
Of course. Again, I'm not comparing the two fighters. That would be silly.
Oh no, I know you wernt. You're a good judge of fighters so I know you wouldn't compare the two lol. I was just saying myself that I just couldn't really envisage Wilder being able to catch Fury like that because he never is static in that way. Now I get it is possible that Fury could get trapped against the ropes and not be able to roll under the right hand, and get hit clean. That's the only way I could easily see it happening though to be honest.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:53
by gilgamesh
Nondescript wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:52
Oh no, I know you wernt. You're a good judge of fighters so I know you wouldn't compare the two lol. I was just saying myself that I just couldn't really envisage Wilder being able to catch Fury like that because he never is static in that way. Now I get it is possible that Fury could get trapped against the ropes and not be able to roll under the right hand, and get hit clean. That's the only way I could easily see it happening though to be honest.
He can be dropped by one of Wilder's left hooks too. The 12th showed us that.
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:54
by jamamb
gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:53
He can be dropped by one of Wilder's left hooks too. The 12th showed us that.
maybe im challenged visually but how? that was clearly a right hand imo. a left maybe grazes at best, but then the right catches him high on the head
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:55
by Nondescript
gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:53
He can be dropped by one of Wilder's left hooks too. The 12th showed us that.
Yeah, valid point!
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:56
by jamamb
really? maybe i am visually challenged then, it looks not at all like it was the left to me
fury bends over and wilders right lands right around the top of his head
Re: So.... Do You See Fury as the Best Now?
Posted: 09 Jun 2019, 16:57
by gilgamesh
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Jun 2019, 16:54
maybe im challenged visually but how? that was clearly a right hand imo. a left maybe grazes at best, but then the right catches him high on the head
It's a right hand, left hook combo. He eats a left hook on the way down.