BoxRec

1.joe cal
2.sog ward
3.froch
4.collins
5.chris eubank

.i mean what ive seen of roy rones looks fantistic boxer but was he a super middelweight

You'd have to put Ward ahead of Froch in any list obviously. I think you could easily find less fashionable names who could have out boxed Froch. Frankie Liles would be one. The real point is the top 3 - Jones, Ward and Calzaghe aren't really vulnerable to someone out-skilling them.

polecateddy wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:44 You'd have to put Ward ahead of Froch in any list obviously. I think you could easily find less fashionable names who could have out boxed Froch. Frankie Liles would be one. The real point is the top 3 - Jones, Ward and Calzaghe aren't really vulnerable to someone out-skilling them.

true about last bit but they never faced each other in there primes or at super middleweight

Nunn and Toney had better boxing ability than Calzaghe and Ward

Sure Calzaghe had great workrate and Ward smart/rough inside if not staying out of range, but neither were really slick boxers like Toney or Nunn who could stay mid range and just totally out-smooth you

McCallum was another who was slicker and better than Ward or Calzaghe, clearly

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:52 McCallum was another who was slicker and better than Ward or Calzaghe, clearly

did mike fight at super though

Remember him calling out Eubank alot in BN around 92/93 so must've, recall him announcing he wanted the winner of Eubank Benn 2 bless him but he just wasn't a draw as good as he was

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:57 Remember him calling out Eubank alot in BN around 92/93 so must've, recall him announcing he wanted the winner of Eubank Benn 2 bless him but he just wasn't a draw as good as he was

He jumped over supermiddleweight to light heavyweight

brilo33 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:53

Isaax wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:52 McCallum was another who was slicker and better than Ward or Calzaghe, clearly

did mike fight at super though

He was a light middle, and he was great, imagine if he had had the backing.
He was fighting the Toneys of this world at super middle, at short notice, Mcallum was the man

Coco wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 16:43

brilo33 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 15:53

did mike fight at super though

He was a light middle, and he was great, imagine if he had had the backing.
He was fighting the Toneys of this world at super middle, at short notice, Mcallum was the man

coco i ve seen mike beat collins , but it is a best super list

brilo33 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 16:47

Coco wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 16:43

He was a light middle, and he was great, imagine if he had had the backing.
He was fighting the Toneys of this world at super middle, at short notice, Mcallum was the man

coco i ve seen mike beat collins , but it is a best super list

So as I said he is a light middle

But a great fighter.

Beating Collins at middle, drawing with Toney at Super Middle or Harding at light heavy doesn't make him great at those weights.

But a great fighter

Coco wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 16:55

brilo33 wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 16:47

coco i ve seen mike beat collins , but it is a best super list

So as I said he is a light middle

But a great fighter.

Beating Collins at super middle or Harding at light heavy doesn't make him great at those weights.

But a great fighter

he beat collins at middle . and i know he is a top boxer rated very highly , and i wanst trying to be a dick head about it

Tangentially related, I watched Benn - McClellan yesterday for about the 50th time. Such a brutal fight.

Looking at records, yes McCallum fought at the weight in nontitle fights against likes of Chirino

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑24 Jun 2020, 17:38 Tangentially related, I watched Benn - McClellan yesterday for about the 50th time. Such a brutal fight.

McClellan was looking like fighter of the 90s to many, Benn dug to the equator to pull that one out. We're probably all underrating Benn for the last 3-5 fights when he looked terrible, but there was a reason for that (shadow on brain from Gerald's bombs)

He outboxed Eubank and even GMan in a way with the rolling, ducking, slipping and weaving & timing his punches, certainly outboxed unbeaten Wharton, 6'3" Piper, brick-shithouse Giminez(had Duran over in opening round,Roldan fight close/competitive in front of 60+k) and the running/hugging Galvano. Benn under Tibbs from the Rome fight and VS GM was pretty fkn sick considering how raw he had been before (plus the fact he was fighting lightheavys coming down without a big frame himself)

My list:

RJJ
Toney
Ward
Calzaghe *
Eubank *

The Brits get an asterisk each for avoiding dangerous yanks during most of their career.
Eubank scrapes in for beating Rocchigiani in Germany by UD (how the heck did that happen?).
Collins doesn't get in for being in the right place at the right time in his wins over geriatric Benn and Eubank.

dazzler wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 09:40 My list:

RJJ
Toney
Ward
Calzaghe *
Eubank *

The Brits get an asterisk each for avoiding dangerous yanks during most of their career.
Eubank scrapes in for beating Rocchigiani in Germany by UD (how the heck did that happen?).
Collins doesn't get in for being in the right place at the right time in his wins over geriatric Benn and Eubank.

How do you know the Yanks didn't avoid the Brits?

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:21

dazzler wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 09:40 My list:

RJJ
Toney
Ward
Calzaghe *
Eubank *

The Brits get an asterisk each for avoiding dangerous yanks during most of their career.
Eubank scrapes in for beating Rocchigiani in Germany by UD (how the heck did that happen?).
Collins doesn't get in for being in the right place at the right time in his wins over geriatric Benn and Eubank.

How do you know the Yanks didn't avoid the Brits?

Going purely on their records at 168, in no order:

Nunn
Toney
Jones
Collins
Calzaghe

I haven't chosen Collins because I think he'd have beaten Ward (honestly don't know), but because I rate the best names on his record above those on Ward's. I know he lost to Kalambay, McCallum and Johnson, but Ward almost lost to Kov, and I don't rate him as highly as those guys.

The key thing is that none of those fights were at 168, leaving us with Ward's wins over Kessler and Froch, and Collins' over Eubank and Benn (the former still in very handy shape, the latter less so).

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:21

dazzler wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 09:40 My list:

RJJ
Toney
Ward
Calzaghe *
Eubank *

The Brits get an asterisk each for avoiding dangerous yanks during most of their career.
Eubank scrapes in for beating Rocchigiani in Germany by UD (how the heck did that happen?).
Collins doesn't get in for being in the right place at the right time in his wins over geriatric Benn and Eubank.

How do you know the Yanks didn't avoid the Brits?

If you were following boxing at the time you know for a fact it was the Brits who avoided the yanks. It is cast iron and unequivocal.

Onamastus wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 13:17

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:21

How do you know the Yanks didn't avoid the Brits?

If you were following boxing at the time you know for a fact it was the Brits who avoided the yanks. It is cast iron and unequivocal.

Hopkins had agreed to fight JC the first time then doubled his demands the day before.
Also Ward, Toney and Jones never left the states during their prime.

Slightly off topic but Tony Maccallum I is a great example of two elite technicians going at it.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:21

dazzler wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 09:40 My list:

RJJ
Toney
Ward
Calzaghe *
Eubank *

The Brits get an asterisk each for avoiding dangerous yanks during most of their career.
Eubank scrapes in for beating Rocchigiani in Germany by UD (how the heck did that happen?).
Collins doesn't get in for being in the right place at the right time in his wins over geriatric Benn and Eubank.

How do you know the Yanks didn't avoid the Brits?

I would say it's easy to work out, look at the resumes of the fighters in question.

If Larry Merchant was 50 years younger he'd bum them all on the same night

J-C wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 14:42 Slightly off topic but Tony Maccallum I is a great example of two elite technicians going at it.

Can't think of any better example. Good as it gets