BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:16

567568 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 They must be crazy who would suggest AJ can beat Holmes. Holmes is one of the true all time greats, in fact ranking him as a top 5 heavy of all time would not be too wrong.
Aj can beat Holmes in the sense that he can catch him with a lucky punch, as can any other heavyweight. But Holmes had great heart, a prime Holmes just runs rings around AJ and bleeds him with cuts - eyes, lips, nose. And when he feels like it, and AJ is winded enough, Holmes steps in and finishes it off.

20 pounds extra weight does not matter as much as boxing skills, Usyk showed us all.

To be fair, Usyk beats Holmes, because I feel Oleksandr is far better than the likes of Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon (who I feel both beat ‘The Easton Assassin’).

Larry Holmes was also decked numerous times throughout the course of his career, being floored by the likes of Tyson, Shavers, Butterbean, Snipes, Isaac etc. He was hurt several times by others as well.

So just because Usyk beats AJ, that doesn't necessarily mean it's categorically impossible for Joshua to beat Holmes, because the ‘The Easton Assassin’ was far more orthodox than Oleksandr is.

The peak version of Larry Holmes was slightly smaller than the iteration of Oleksandr Usyk that faced AJ last weekend.

And I feel we both probably agree that Anthony Joshua is a better fighter than Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon?

Tim Witherspoon was a far better fighter than Anthony Joshua, he would have beaten Anthony Joshua very easily, Witherspoon was a good mover very strong, great overhand right, great stamina, it would have been an easy fight for him.

Witherspoons career was ruined by his row with Don King, it caused him a lot of disruption .
He was a very good mover, very slick at slipping punches and could time that overhand right to perfection.
if he hadn't had his career disrupted by Don King he could have achieved a lot more.
I remember when he was due to fight Bruno, i lived in London at the time, i told everybody that he would knock Bruno out but it was like talking to the wall, everybody had been taken in by the media and didn't know anything about Witherspoon, and lo and behold he did stop Bruno, he came in overweight at about 235 pounds, but he was very strong and great stamina, he would have been a terrible match up for joshua.

This has probably already been said….but anyone that can lose to Cruiserweight Usyk and a plump Ruiz could and probably would lose handily to a Prime Holmes.

Larry Holmes would beat Joshua and Wilder with just his jab alone. On the same night.

Let's be serious.

Monzon83 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 21:18 Larry Holmes would beat Joshua and Wilder with just his jab alone. On the same night.

Let's be serious.

Truth. But a lot of modern fans never saw him fight (other than on YouTube) so anyone who fought in the last 10 years and won a minor alphabet belt would kick his azz

I personally rank Larry Holmes as either the number one or number two heavyweight of all time. He's the only man I can think of who, of normal proportions, could have beaten Muhammad Ali at his best in the 1960s.

He was and still is massively underrated because he was not only in the shadow of a popular champion before him but was in a comparatively weak era for heavyweights.

But his comeback in the '90s showed just how talented he was because he gave Ray Mercer a boxing lesson and was arguably robbed against Oliver McCall for the title.

Larry Holmes was arguably robbed in the rematch against Michael Spinks, and that man was one of the top five light heavyweights of all time. Really the match I want to see talked about is Usyk vs Spinks, rather than Holmes vs Joshua.

I don't want to really crap all over Joshua but Larry Holmes was the superior boxer and he could dig down deep and fight hard as well. One thing about Larry was he had killer instinct and he would really pour it on if he thought for one minute he had somebody hurt.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2020, 07:17Larry Holmes laughs off suggestions Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten him

The thing is when a reigning Champ loses and it breaks his reign - it just makes long title reigns like Larry's looks all the more impressive, not that they weren't already tremendously impressive to begin with...
But there is a reason why Larry is a top 10 HW of all time and AJ is way down the list at the moment...

I would also say that even if he avenges his loss, I doubt that he will ever be remembered in The Eaton Assassin's league... Very few Champions (let alone men) compare to him...

Crease wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 22:39
The thing is when a reigning Champ loses and it breaks his reign - it just makes long title reigns like Larry's looks all the more impressive, not that they weren't already tremendously impressive to begin with...

The way how fans overrate past boxers is insane. Ok, Holmes would maybe beat Joshua. But saying Joshua would had no chance, Holmes beating him and Wilder just with jab in one night. Joshua was olympic champ and pro HW champ for years for a reason. Wilder resume is also decent. Both of these guys have chance against Holmes, despite Holmes would be favorite. I bet in year 2050 fans will keep talking how Wilder and Joshua would smash champs too

Cent0089 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 08:33 . Joshua was olympic champ for a reason.

mmmm that home cooking smelled gooooood

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 08:34

Cent0089 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 08:33 . Joshua was olympic champ for a reason.

mmmm that home cooking smelled gooooood

Fair enough, but on the other side, he was robbed of 2011 gold

What fight was the pinnacle of holmes career? The one where people said he is at the top of his game?

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 08:37 What fight was the pinnacle of holmes career? The one where people said he is at the top of his game?

Cooney 1982/06/11

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:38
Styles makes fights.

Usyk is unorthodox and unpredictable. Larry Holmes was neither of those things.

this is a gross caricature to suggest that Holmes was some orthodox predictable drone, if Holmes was so orthodox, can you tell me any other heavyweights with a similar style? list their techniques that they used in the same manner as he did, it shouldn't be difficult as he's so predictable and orthodox and easy to work out.

meanwhile on Planet Boxing:


Holmes's jab (to take but one example) was extremely difficult to predict, as he threw it from so many angles, he'd throw it from the waist or the shoulder and anywhere in between, against Norton he frequently got through Ken's attemtp at a cross-armed defence by changing not the vertical but the horizontal plane it was delivered along (IE from the middle of the chest or from outside the shoulder) he'd change the rythmn behind it, vary the strength and speed, he had like 12 different ways to throw the jab. that is not a predictable fighter. For another thing, his footwork was unpredictable- sometimes he would circle left whilst jabbing with a leap added to the movement like Ali would do, but often he would often circle right rather than circle left, and he was brilliant at popping his jab off despite stepping in the 'wrong' direction for throwing multiple jabs (much easier to do circling left/anti-clockwise). He was also very good at taking angles with his feet and punching off of pivots from those angles, IE step/pivot/punch, which means he was changing the angle twice before throwing the shot, very unpredictable.

that's just a few examples, but if you think Holmes was some kind of run of the mill fighter stylewise, you're just wrong.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 03:10

stevec@france wrote: ↑20 Jul 2020, 16:14 Holmes ducked Foreman

Foreman was retired when Holmes was in his prime.

stevec obviously doesn't let mere facts get in the way of his one-liners

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 12:53

567568 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 They must be crazy who would suggest AJ can beat Holmes. Holmes is one of the true all time greats, in fact ranking him as a top 5 heavy of all time would not be too wrong.
Aj can beat Holmes in the sense that he can catch him with a lucky punch, as can any other heavyweight. But Holmes had great heart, a prime Holmes just runs rings around AJ and bleeds him with cuts - eyes, lips, nose. And when he feels like it, and AJ is winded enough, Holmes steps in and finishes it off.

20 pounds extra weight does not matter as much as boxing skills, Usyk showed us all.

- Your superior boxing skills evident here:



Lar record vs standing champs having won titles in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO, but of course being up to your eyeballs in PEDs, you can be excused for not knowing that.

Really, you as the new established boxrec drug cheat should stick to U peds. Just don't overdose on clenbuterol or EMS will be hauling your drugged up candya$$ to the hospital like what happened to some dumb kid I worked with wanting to be a body builder

Still trotting out the same nonsense I see BBR.

Remind me again, what is it you admire in a fighter?

Is it bulging biceps, over-developed pecs or are you still an admirer of a "fit arse"?

Jaywheel wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 13:06 Surely you must know that someone naming twice in this thread the Butterbean KD and holding it against Holmes has to be an idiot?

Yeah, the sort of guy (I use the term loosely here) who has no idea of context. He scans a record and is suddenly an expert in his own mind.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 15:10

Jaywheel wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 13:06 Surely you must know that someone naming twice in this thread the Butterbean KD and holding it against Holmes has to be an idiot?

To be fair, EO is a well known imbecile.

Ah! Perhaps I was too harsh on the guy if he is technically feeble-minded.

Why does everybody gotta be compared to past greats as soon as they achieve something? Usyk just won a big fight. Let the guy have it. People getting mad at the insinuation he could beat Larry Holmes or something

He ain't f*cking fighting Larry Holmes. It's AJ (again), Wilder and Fury he needs to concern himself with.

Larry's one of the all time greats at Heavyweight. Usyk is one of the P4P greats right now. Let's see how the rest of his career shakes out before we start talking about how he would've done against the Legends of the past. Have patience people.

Let's see if Usyk can win his next few fights before we start comparing him to some of the very best ever.

Giancarlo wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 15:49

Jaywheel wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 13:06 Surely you must know that someone naming twice in this thread the Butterbean KD and holding it against Holmes has to be an idiot?

Yeah, the sort of guy (I use the term loosely here) who has no idea of context. He scans a record and is suddenly an expert in his own mind.

Holyfield getting beat by that mma fighter has sunk him greatly in the EO atg hw rankings....

ldlamb wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 19:03 This has probably already been said….but anyone that can lose to Cruiserweight Usyk and a plump Ruiz could and probably would lose handily to a Prime Holmes.

That would be considered sound reasoning by any knowledgeable fight fan.

However, the internet has given a voice to a whole host of loonies as can be seen by many posts in the thread.

Now, The Easton Assassin has morphed into "Tubby Lar" and is no longer a dominant long-term #1 heavyweight but a mere bit player.

Crease wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 22:39

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2020, 07:17Larry Holmes laughs off suggestions Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten him

The thing is when a reigning Champ loses and it breaks his reign - it just makes long title reigns like Larry's looks all the more impressive, not that they weren't already tremendously impressive to begin with...
But there is a reason why Larry is a top 10 HW of all time and AJ is way down the list at the moment...

I would also say that even if he avenges his loss, I doubt that he will ever be remembered in The Eaton Assassin's league... Very few Champions (let alone men) compare to him...

- Gotta Unicorn link with for your Peter Pan Tinkerbell Candyland Universe?

The "Who Dat" Holmesly won a hotly contested split decision against the very popular Ken Norton by 1 point out of the 855 pts cast, a 0.0012% margin. No lucrative rematch of that disputed WBC Administrative title. His actual title record vs standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO, a single belt holder in a multibelt era.

AJ is a genuine unified champ with more collective belt defenses than Holmesly who was instrumental in ditching the WBC to create more belts with the IBF. Yet not even that dubious org who's founder, Bob Lee, who would soon be serving a prison sentence for crookery could stomach sanctioning Marvis Frazier as title bout, I mean really, where's your link to Candyland?

Butterbean been mentioned, and so what top fighters were ever calling out Bean? Noone...NOONE is the short answer, but Holmesly felt compelled and got mocked and knocked down for his insolence in his last ring moment on this earth.

Oh the shame of the shameless...W0W

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 08:37What fight was the pinnacle of holmes career? The one where people said he is at the top of his game?

Well... That's a very limited question isn't it? And it leads to a very narrow viewpoint of the man's entire career...

Probably the greatest thing about Larry was that he was dominant over a long stretch of time - he was World Heavyweight Champion from 78 to 85 and that encompasses 20 successful title fights...

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑28 Sep 2021, 17:19Yet not even that dubious org who's founder, Bob Lee, who would soon be serving a prison sentence for crookery could stomach sanctioning Marvis Frazier as title bout, I mean really

The Frazier fight was NOT sanctioned for either the WBC or IBF titles....


Oh dearie, dearie me - what a complete knobhead you really are...