Ratings - please read before commenting

[gregregegg]

Can anyone explain how Teo lopez is ranked above Kambosos?

Kambosos is the 3 (plus franchise) belt holder and is ranked 5th in the division....

[margaret thatcher]

plus he beat lopez last fight.........i thought boxrec didnt rate someone above someone who beat them in their previous fight

[gregregegg]

plus he beat lopez last fight.........i thought boxrec didnt rate someone above someone who beat them in their previous fight

Yep, i forgot to even mention that but it was the basis of my comment. seems weird.

I think i remember reading it was possible to be bellow someone you just beat in a split decision, possible but incredibly unlikely (because it averages scores, it there was like a 114-113, 114-113, 108-120 then on average mabey they would stay ahead).....

but in this case, it seems clear kambo should be above Teo...

side note... I swear boxrec rankings peaked about 5 years ago. when they started acounting past preformances more and backdating rankings (somthing i orrigonaly liked the sound of) it got a bit lost for me.

[computerrank]

plus he beat lopez last fight.........i thought boxrec didnt rate someone above someone who beat them in their previous fight

Yep, i forgot to even mention that but it was the basis of my comment. seems weird.

I think i remember reading it was possible to be bellow someone you just beat in a split decision, possible but incredibly unlikely (because it averages scores, it there was like a 114-113, 114-113, 108-120 then on average mabey they would stay ahead).....

but in this case, it seems clear kambo should be above Teo...

side note... I swear boxrec rankings peaked about 5 years ago. when they started acounting past preformances more and backdating rankings (somthing i orrigonaly liked the sound of) it got a bit lost for me.

[computerrank]

plus he beat lopez last fight.........i thought boxrec didnt rate someone above someone who beat them in their previous fight

Yep, i forgot to even mention that but it was the basis of my comment. seems weird.

I think i remember reading it was possible to be bellow someone you just beat in a split decision, possible but incredibly unlikely (because it averages scores, it there was like a 114-113, 114-113, 108-120 then on average mabey they would stay ahead).....

but in this case, it seems clear kambo should be above Teo...

side note... I swear boxrec rankings peaked about 5 years ago. when they started acounting past preformances more and backdating rankings (somthing i orrigonaly liked the sound of) it got a bit lost for me.

Sorry, it is a known weakness in the current ratings version. An instant rating update caused by a new or changed result may not trace the winner-above-loser sequence in full length, and so may cause a violation of the winner-above-loser rule.

I already found an algorithm improvement, which will be set live as soon as possible.

The daily ratings run over all results is already correct anyway. So the imbalance by an instant update was already corrected during the daily complete ratings run this morning.

[computerrank]

# ratings cap correction - same time period as winner-above-loser and stay-busy-bouts now - 18 months
# - reduces winner-above-loser upsets from 3200 to 2900

# instant update only updates directly involved boxers
# - this avoids wrong ratings for not directly involved boxers, which are in the winner-above-loser sequence

# bug fix cap - achievement in bout depends on rating of both opponents, not only on opponents rating

[computerrank]

Why is Gervonta Davis ranked as the best lightweight? How is that even possible? Who did he beat to deserve that spot? He should be at least ranked behind Lomachenko, Lopez, Haney and Kambosos!

I love BoxRec. But sometimes rankings don't make sense at all!

Davis' defining KO win was against Santa Cruz, who was at 85.34 points at Super Featherweight 20 months ago, That was an achievement of 170.68 points at Super Featherweight, which now is devaluated after 18 months to 161.3 points. And is converted to Lightweight with 144.1 points.
Haney's defining close win was against Kambosos Jnr, who was at 55.57 points at Lightweight. That was an achievement of 112.5 points.

[Yanassi]

Algorithms ok, i get it. But it doesn’t take into account, ducking, avoidance, fighters afraid to lose, etc. There’s a valid reason resumes don’t account with accuracy. Undisputed haney is rated 2nd below half-belt tank …your algorithms needs to reflect reality, it’s sadly needs modernization in this era of false narratives. Please correct or boxrec loses credibility by everyone from professionals to fans.

[JCS]

Algorithms ok, i get it. But it doesn’t take into account, ducking, avoidance, fighters afraid to lose, etc. There’s a valid reason resumes don’t account with accuracy. Undisputed haney is rated 2nd below half-belt tank …your algorithms needs to reflect reality, it’s sadly needs modernization in this era of false narratives. Please correct or boxrec loses credibility by everyone from professionals to fans.

How do you alter the system to consider these things? I'm curious... teach us.

[SportsRatings]

Algorithms ok, i get it. But it doesn’t take into account, ducking, avoidance, fighters afraid to lose, etc. There’s a valid reason resumes don’t account with accuracy. Undisputed haney is rated 2nd below half-belt tank …your algorithms needs to reflect reality, it’s sadly needs modernization in this era of false narratives. Please correct or boxrec loses credibility by everyone from professionals to fans.

How do you alter the system to consider these things? I'm curious... teach us.

obviously you click the check box in the AI that says "account for ducking"

(it's somewhere in the Preferences window I think, a few tabs over)

[SportsRatings]

Algorithms ok, i get it. But it doesn’t take into account, ducking, avoidance, fighters afraid to lose, etc. There’s a valid reason resumes don’t account with accuracy. Undisputed haney is rated 2nd below half-belt tank …your algorithms needs to reflect reality, it’s sadly needs modernization in this era of false narratives. Please correct or boxrec loses credibility by everyone from professionals to fans.

How do you alter the system to consider these things? I'm curious... teach us.

I thought about this and if you included in the fight database, every "duck" or "avoid", and scored it in some way, not as bad as a loss, maybe as bad as a draw if you're ranked ahead? Then you could make some kind of system to account for ducking.

The hard part, of course, is determining who ducked who, and deciding how bad of a duck it was (on a scale of 1 to Riddick-Bowe-putting-belt-in-garbage). Opinions on ducking are more polarized than opinions on fight outcomes. At least with the latter we have film to review to make up our own minds.

[squiggy]

Are the rating numbers just gone now, or...?

[stokelad84]

Are the scores now a myth that we will tell out grandkids about?

Us: "Back in our day Boxrec visibly displayed everybody's score which could then be debated on social media."

Grandkids: "Sure grandpa, go back to bed."

[John]

Are the scores now a myth that we will tell out grandkids about?

Us: "Back in our day Boxrec visibly displayed everybody's score which could then be debated on social media."

Grandkids: "Sure grandpa, go back to bed."

The scores should still be there, where are they not visible ?

[aumonier2]

I confirm the ratings doesn't show for me either, not on the boxer's page, not in the ratings page, nowhere. It is probably due to the new design of the site that was launched for the site that week. I have tried changing the option in my preferences, switching to yes then no then yes again but it has no effect.

The button "event" doesn't appear when on a boxer's page where it used to be (next to "bout", "score" and "Wiki").

The link to the explanation about ratings (first message of the thread) seems dead too.

[pugilisticspecialist]

I can't see points ratings anywhere, users need to at least have the option of displaying them, otherwise they just have to take BoxRec's word for it that it's an objective system and not simply based on opinion.

[528400]

ratings algo is absolutely broken. how dafug is tank no.1 at 135 with a plastic WBA belt and the real undisputed champ at no.2? am i in some sick twisted alternate dimension?

[JCS]

Christ, the site is locked down like Fort Knox now LOL. I love having to click pictures of a bus to see the result of a fight! What a reward after visiting here for ~20 years.

I also don't see ratings on the fighter pages.

[marcianofan]

Yeah....I like the fact that it shows current rankings for fighters in upcoming fights on the schedule now, as that saves me clicks in not having to click on every 15-0 figher to see if they've earned a decent ranking.

I don't like that ratings points have been scrubbed (looked at a fight involving an inactive fighter, and literally can't tell from his record if he's ever fought anyone good or not), or that you have to click on each individual event rather than just scrolling down the list of fights. I also don't like that when you visit a bout page from years ago, the fighter's current ranking is displayed, which makes it look like that's where the two fighters stood at the time.

All in all, it's a pretty big step backward unless it''s just under construction and they're trying to avoid downtime.

I always make a list of top 50 fighters (plus inactive fighters that would be) that are fighting in each division from heavyweight to light welter in a given week, and I'm not sure that's possible now. It's definitely harder, especially for the inactive.

[544717]

Fighters' ratings after a bout were very useful in looking up and down a fighter's record to find their highest-rated opponents in their career.

Bring it back for the stats geeks!

[jujigatame]

Just noticed the ratings points have disappeared from the fighter pages. I hope they return soon, that was a super useful tool for seeing how good a guy's record really is.

[computerrank]

Your last posts comment the recent big BoxRec website update and the changes in displaying rating points.

The ratings algorithm itself and the ratings rules didn't change at all.

I ask you, to post your comments and change requests regarding the BoxRec website update in the forum 'Suggestions for BoxRec'

viewtopic.php?t=250810

[jujigatame]

Done and done.

[Bigroe]

Ratings: my Boxer Louis Greene, has moved up to Superwelter and stopped the Polish Number 2 Tomasz Norwicki In 5 Rds but you still have in rated at welter, should this not be changed by now?

[squiggy]

Your last posts comment the recent big BoxRec website update and the changes in displaying rating points.

The ratings algorithm itself and the ratings rules didn't change at all.

Right, but no one can see them.