BoxRec

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:45

Coco wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:31

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:18

Joe was a legend. But didn’t train for the fight as you could see. Fat and gassed, Bruno bullied him. Bugner wasn’t in his prime like Gardner or Emmen.

Imo Gardner was just about over the hill on that fateful night in Marbella!

Yes. But if you’re talking about a man who absolutely outboxed the legendary Jimmy Young, you’re not talking about a mug. If you watch the fight Chuck was pissing the fight til Bruno landed the game changer.

Also Gardner gassed a bit too after being taken into the second half of the first minute, he just wasn't able to keep up the same intensity.

Coco wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:49

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:45

Coco wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 13:31

Imo Gardner was just about over the hill on that fateful night in Marbella!

Yes. But if you’re talking about a man who absolutely outboxed the legendary Jimmy Young, you’re not talking about a mug. If you watch the fight Chuck was pissing the fight til Bruno landed the game changer.

Also Gardner gassed a bit too after being taken into the second half of the first minute, he just wasn't able to keep up the same intensity.

Absolutely. I believe had Gardner got to the end of the round, he would've continued outboxing big Frank with his edge in speed. Bruno would eventually wither in round 8 or 9 from a Gardner assault

Sometimes I think Scott le Doux or Mike Jameson.

skanksta wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 09:13 Talk of Tyson blowin Tyson || away seems ridiculous to me.

Iron Mike struggled with, movement, height and range, people that weren't scared.

Put that in a FOUR STONE and NINE INCHES size advantage and Fury wins all day for me.

You mean against a 40 year old Mike Tyson who lost to McBride? Agree. If you mean the guy who romped through 6'5, 6'6 guys in the 80s, don't be silly. Fury's been down 4 times versus Wilder, a man with literally one punch, telegraphed. Mike's power punches were in combinations at high speed from all angles.

I don't like Mike Tyson, but it's obvious some in this thread are too besotted with Fury to judge him objectively. It's going to be painful for them when he inevitably loses.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 14:07 Sometimes I think Scott le Doux or Mike Jameson.

How Fury would respond to Mike's bodyshots is intriguing.

Erm thanks, but I'm not a child.

A young undefeated Tony Tucker was a very good 6 foot 5 fighter, and although it wasn’t his best night, Tyson took his belt and outboxed/out skilled Tucker over 12 rounds. The whole ‘the way to beat Tyson is you just stick and move’ was a bit of a myth. A lot of good fighters tried and failed to pull that one off.

And I think other than McCall, Bruno was wholly lacking in significant wins. Bruno’s whole ethos was basically being surprising competitive but then losing, which barring McCall and Tyson 2, was what always happened when he stepped up. If he’d shut out Bonecrusher out he might have accessed a number of other 80’s names and had a better record. Maybe?!

Billy Tully wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 16:35

skanksta wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 09:13 Talk of Tyson blowin Tyson || away seems ridiculous to me.

Iron Mike struggled with, movement, height and range, people that weren't scared.

Put that in a FOUR STONE and NINE INCHES size advantage and Fury wins all day for me.

You mean against a 40 year old Mike Tyson who lost to McBride? Agree. If you mean the guy who romped through 6'5, 6'6 guys in the 80s, don't be silly. Fury's been down 4 times versus Wilder, a man with literally one punch, telegraphed. Mike's power punches were in combinations at high speed from all angles.

I don't like Mike Tyson, but it's obvious some in this thread are too besotted with Fury to judge him objectively. It's going to be painful for them when he inevitably loses.

Agreed ,Mike Tyson was an expert at getting opponents too punch down , taking away a lot of there size advantage,,, but you have to look at early Mike Tyson

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 16:43

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 14:07 Sometimes I think Scott le Doux or Mike Jameson.

How Fury would respond to Mike's bodyshots is intriguing.

I would suggest they would be too too much.

polecateddy wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 09:48 This kind of dipping into and out of big fights, with extended inactivity isn't really how great heavyweight fighters are supposed to behave. To my mind Tyson Fury needs to get on with fighting regularly now.

I grew up watching all bruno's fights and he has zero chance against fury...zero. He's made for fury. Bruno was strong with a good jab and punched hard but other than that he wasn't really talented and was very robotic. He was brilliantly managed and matched. Every time he went in with a top heavy in their prime he lost, smith, witherspoon, tyson and lewis.

He was very cleverly matched with over the hill name fighters to get him back up the rankings but they were usually way over the hill, coming off a loss or just there for the paycheck - see coetzee, bugner and ferguson for details.

McCall was an odd fight and he showed not a lot of ambition in it. Very listless performance. Frank was not top class he was level below. Fury is top class.

Fury is undefeated, beat wlad in germany and beat wilder twice not to mention he made mincemeat of chisora. Hes absolutely top class and has talent in abundance, Frank wouldn't land a glove on him.

Fury against other top fighters of frank's era? Mm thats hard to say.i suspect he'd beat some and lose to others. He wouldn't be scared of anyone and his size would be a big advantage. big guys don't move like fury usually. He'd possible get busted up by a prime tyson if tyson could get inside but the 90s one punch at a time tyson i cant see getting much on fury. Fury would outpoint bowe i think and ditto holyfield. Could have lost to those guys tho.

Fury's one KO loss away from a total reassessment of his standing. One. Nobody was picking Bruno over Joshua 2 years ago, Joshua would have destroyed him. 3 KDs by Ruiz and X number of wobbles against greatly talented but light hitting Usyk later and I'm wondering how AJ takes Bruno's telephone pole jab.

AJ was ridiculously overrated when he was undefeated and fashionable, Fury may go the exact same way.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 16:35

skanksta wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 09:13 Talk of Tyson blowin Tyson || away seems ridiculous to me.

Iron Mike struggled with, movement, height and range, people that weren't scared.

Put that in a FOUR STONE and NINE INCHES size advantage and Fury wins all day for me.

You mean against a 40 year old Mike Tyson who lost to McBride? Agree. If you mean the guy who romped through 6'5, 6'6 guys in the 80s, don't be silly. Fury's been down 4 times versus Wilder, a man with literally one punch, telegraphed. Mike's power punches were in combinations at high speed from all angles.

I don't like Mike Tyson, but it's obvious some in this thread are too besotted with Fury to judge him objectively. It's going to be painful for them when he inevitably loses.

I don't think Tyson ever beat a world class opponent over 6'4. Fury is around 6'7-6'7 1/2

One thing Tyson could do was nullify an opponents superior height and reach - also he was an excellent body puncher and could go brilliantly from the body to the head and back - he also had a superb jab - there would have been too much 'body'
of Fury for Mike Tyson to go at and Mike Tyson in his prime would have stopped Tyson Fury within four rounds. There are versions of both fighters where we can play around with the results but prime vs prime - Mike Tyson all day for me.

The way he chopped down Tyrell Biggs who was 6ft 5ins or 6ft 6ins was a masterclass - Biggs had excellent footwork and skills and did well for the first three rounds but Tyson got to him in the end - and Biggs was brave in that fight as well, showed a lot of guts.

[/quote]

I don't think Tyson ever beat a world class opponent over 6'4. Fury is around 6'7-6'7 1/2
[/quote]

Ok .. on that line of reasoning. I don't think Fury has ever beat a world class opponent under 6'ft. Mike Tyson is 5'11"

Yep. Sounds silly either way doesn't it

It's all opinion comparing past with present. Typically your own bias will have you comparing a one off/peak performance against another fighters poor performance.

The problem we have with Fury his best wins have came against a very old opponent, and a very limited opponent .. there has been nothing else.
As brave as Chisora is; he has always lost the ones that mattered and probably best described as a gatekeeper.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2021, 21:52

Billy Tully wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 16:35

skanksta wrote: ↑26 Dec 2021, 09:13 Talk of Tyson blowin Tyson || away seems ridiculous to me.

Iron Mike struggled with, movement, height and range, people that weren't scared.

Put that in a FOUR STONE and NINE INCHES size advantage and Fury wins all day for me.

You mean against a 40 year old Mike Tyson who lost to McBride? Agree. If you mean the guy who romped through 6'5, 6'6 guys in the 80s, don't be silly. Fury's been down 4 times versus Wilder, a man with literally one punch, telegraphed. Mike's power punches were in combinations at high speed from all angles.

I don't like Mike Tyson, but it's obvious some in this thread are too besotted with Fury to judge him objectively. It's going to be painful for them when he inevitably loses.

I don't think Tyson ever beat a world class opponent over 6'4. Fury is around 6'7-6'7 1/2

Tony Tucker Mitch Green Tyrell Biggs Jose Ribalta were all 6'5'' and world class when Tyson beat them. They qll struggled punching down at such an elusive target who was constantly dangerous with his hand speed, combinations and power.

mitch green and jose ribalta were world class? ty biggs....world class am, but world class pro?

Biggs was world ranked, undefeated and coming off two wins over world title challengers, in addition to his gold medal. Most of us generally deem someone with those credentials as being world class.

Ribalta bar an early blip had only lost a controversial dec to future champ Bonecrusher and Green a controversial dec to future champ Berbick. Contentious with those two but Ribalta gave Tyson a proper fight -- he's clearly head and shoulders above Tyson's KO1 or 2 journeyman opp.

In all cases Tyson appeared to give them life-altering beatings.

reaching there tuany

tillis certainly wasnt world class when tyson beat him either, basically was a high level journeyman who hadnt scored a good win in years and never did again. tyson was his 5th loss out of his last 6. this is also the tillis who biggs beat. the other world title challenger biggs beat was snipes, who'd fought for it 5 years before but since then couldnt even beat ricky parky.

Obviously this goes round and round until Fury starts losing and then people will quickly give it up. Probably something to do now is revisit all the fights where Fury got floored and then come back and say with a straight face he definitely would have been able to safely tackle all the fighters of Frank’s era.

fury doesnt seem to have the confidence to consistently fight good challengers. he can get up for big occasions here and there, but why doesnt he stick around and mix with the different top guys out there?

maybe he'd be caught in one of his 'moods' and get some of them L's his bois like to lol at lennox for? maybe being a good champ is too much work?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 05:25 fury doesnt seem to have the confidence to consistently fight good challengers. he can get up for big occasions here and there, but why doesnt he stick around and mix with the different top guys out there?

maybe he'd be caught in one of his 'moods' and get some of them L's his bois like to lol at lennox for? maybe being a good champ is too much work?

So he lacks confidence? Your obsession with him is out of control!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 05:12 tillis certainly wasnt world class when tyson beat him either, basically was a high level journeyman who hadnt scored a good win in years and never did again. tyson was his 5th loss out of his last 6. this is also the tillis who biggs beat. the other world title challenger biggs beat was snipes, who'd fought for it 5 years before but since then couldnt even beat ricky parky.

Oh I forgot Tillis was a world title challenger. I was referring to Snipes and Bey. Anyway Biggs was world ranked, even after Tyson beat him. Like it or lump it.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 05:25 fury doesnt seem to have the confidence to consistently fight good challengers. he can get up for big occasions here and there, but why doesnt he stick around and mix with the different top guys out there?

maybe he'd be caught in one of his 'moods' and get some of them L's his bois like to lol at lennox for? maybe being a good champ is too much work?

It does seem he’s an emotional fighter able to do extraordinary things. But that he can only be “up” when the conditions are right. He isn’t consistent and professional, but he can raise his game win he needs to. And he is able to do this after he has visited the canvas, heavily. It does seem he is walking a tightrope yet I’ve enjoyed the drama of his fights vs Wilder (all) and Wallin.

I never really believed we’d see further improvements promised after Wilder 2. That he’d be in the same amazing shape, but doing smoother and more technical things offensively.

Get the feeling he can win the big fights but isn’t fully up to the responsibilities of being a champion. If he had more belts it’d be even worse for him.