BoxRec

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 15:52**

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:45
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:14 Fury is an ATG. He is clearly better than Klitschkos both in terms of resume and skills.
The only problem that Fury has, is the same problem that Larry Holmes had. A couple of really solid guys, and everybody else is just several notches below. Fury for all intents and purposes is head and shoulders above the entire field--- with Usyk being the one exception, only because of the man's credentials as an amateur and professional as a multi-weight champion.

Think about it, on a scale from 0 to 10, what do you think are the chances of different heavyweights out there being capable of beating Fury? 0 being no chance, 10 being an absolute certainty that they would win.

Joshua? 4 maybe 5, tops.
Ruiz? 2 maybe 3, tops.
Usyk? 5 maybe 6, tops.

There is only one fight out there that makes any real sense to be made and that is undisputed with Usyk. Now it's possible that Joshua could win the rematch but I would say it's a long shot. We have yet to see Usyk in an aggressive fight with the big heavyweights, which is something that Joshua failed to do the first time.

I simply cannot see Joe Joyce, Joseph Parker, Andy Ruiz, and others out there floating about being capable of doing anything to Tyson Fury. If Fury defeated the Ukrainian (or Joshua if Joshua wins the rematch) he could easily have a Larry Holmes type of title reign beating a bunch of stiffs, but I wouldn't really see the point in doing that because the heavyweight division would basically become a mirror of the Klitschko era where nobody really stood a chance until the champion started to skip.

I think we have seen far too many boxers regardless of weight class carry on for too long. I think Fury should have 2-3 matches tops and then call it quits. If I was running his career it would go like this:

-Exhibition w/ Ngannou (Boxing vs MMA)
-Undisputed w/ Joshua-Usyk winner
-Mandatory for the WBA/WBO/IBF/WBC
-Andy Ruiz Jr @ Cinco de Mayo (voluntary)
-Joshua/Usyk loser (voluntary)

That way you could walk away as the undisputed champion, and effectively lay claim to having defeated basically everybody who ever held the title. And effectively get out of the business by summer-autumn 2023.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

So after all that, you basically have Fury - Joshua as a 50-50 fight?

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 16:21**

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:45
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:14 Fury is an ATG. He is clearly better than Klitschkos both in terms of resume and skills.
The only problem that Fury has, is the same problem that Larry Holmes had. A couple of really solid guys, and everybody else is just several notches below. Fury for all intents and purposes is head and shoulders above the entire field--- with Usyk being the one exception, only because of the man's credentials as an amateur and professional as a multi-weight champion.

Think about it, on a scale from 0 to 10, what do you think are the chances of different heavyweights out there being capable of beating Fury? 0 being no chance, 10 being an absolute certainty that they would win.

Joshua? 4 maybe 5, tops.
Ruiz? 2 maybe 3, tops.
Usyk? 5 maybe 6, tops.

There is only one fight out there that makes any real sense to be made and that is undisputed with Usyk. Now it's possible that Joshua could win the rematch but I would say it's a long shot. We have yet to see Usyk in an aggressive fight with the big heavyweights, which is something that Joshua failed to do the first time.

I simply cannot see Joe Joyce, Joseph Parker, Andy Ruiz, and others out there floating about being capable of doing anything to Tyson Fury. If Fury defeated the Ukrainian (or Joshua if Joshua wins the rematch) he could easily have a Larry Holmes type of title reign beating a bunch of stiffs, but I wouldn't really see the point in doing that because the heavyweight division would basically become a mirror of the Klitschko era where nobody really stood a chance until the champion started to skip.

I think we have seen far too many boxers regardless of weight class carry on for too long. I think Fury should have 2-3 matches tops and then call it quits. If I was running his career it would go like this:

-Exhibition w/ Ngannou (Boxing vs MMA)
-Undisputed w/ Joshua-Usyk winner
-Mandatory for the WBA/WBO/IBF/WBC
-Andy Ruiz Jr @ Cinco de Mayo (voluntary)
-Joshua/Usyk loser (voluntary)

That way you could walk away as the undisputed champion, and effectively lay claim to having defeated basically everybody who ever held the title. And effectively get out of the business by summer-autumn 2023.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

That’s a lot of extra fights, equal or more than his entire career to date in terms of difficulty.

NGannou would destroy him in a cage, to have any chance it needs to be strictly boxing.

Usyk I think is all around better, the only thing Tyson has is size on him.

Joshua of old could have a chance but is now mentally compromised imo.

Joyce is in with a chance. If Otter Wallin can hurt hurt him so can Joyce. He’s never been in against a someone with that size and durability.

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 16:37**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 11:15 Interesting regarding the team. Apart from Sugar "topless" Hill, Tyson has mainly kept the same entourage around him, now including Steve Egan. Big Shane, Hughie, Brendan, Tim, Greg, they've been there a while.

What's interesting? That you know their names?

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:04**

BigDoofus wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 16:37
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 11:15 Interesting regarding the team. Apart from Sugar "topless" Hill, Tyson has mainly kept the same entourage around him, now including Steve Egan. Big Shane, Hughie, Brendan, Tim, Greg, they've been there a while.
What's interesting? That you know their names?

No, clever twat, that AJ and Whyte swap theirs or add to them regularly.

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:08**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:04
BigDoofus wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 16:37
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 11:15 Interesting regarding the team. Apart from Sugar "topless" Hill, Tyson has mainly kept the same entourage around him, now including Steve Egan. Big Shane, Hughie, Brendan, Tim, Greg, they've been there a while.
What's interesting? That you know their names?
No, clever twat, that AJ and Whyte swap theirs or add to them regularly.

Maybe he needs to know who they are, Steve, ex amateur coach, Shane and Hughie his brothers etc

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:19**

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:52
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:45
DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 15:14 Fury is an ATG. He is clearly better than Klitschkos both in terms of resume and skills.
The only problem that Fury has, is the same problem that Larry Holmes had. A couple of really solid guys, and everybody else is just several notches below. Fury for all intents and purposes is head and shoulders above the entire field--- with Usyk being the one exception, only because of the man's credentials as an amateur and professional as a multi-weight champion.

Think about it, on a scale from 0 to 10, what do you think are the chances of different heavyweights out there being capable of beating Fury? 0 being no chance, 10 being an absolute certainty that they would win.

Joshua? 4 maybe 5, tops.
Ruiz? 2 maybe 3, tops.
Usyk? 5 maybe 6, tops.

There is only one fight out there that makes any real sense to be made and that is undisputed with Usyk. Now it's possible that Joshua could win the rematch but I would say it's a long shot. We have yet to see Usyk in an aggressive fight with the big heavyweights, which is something that Joshua failed to do the first time.

I simply cannot see Joe Joyce, Joseph Parker, Andy Ruiz, and others out there floating about being capable of doing anything to Tyson Fury. If Fury defeated the Ukrainian (or Joshua if Joshua wins the rematch) he could easily have a Larry Holmes type of title reign beating a bunch of stiffs, but I wouldn't really see the point in doing that because the heavyweight division would basically become a mirror of the Klitschko era where nobody really stood a chance until the champion started to skip.

I think we have seen far too many boxers regardless of weight class carry on for too long. I think Fury should have 2-3 matches tops and then call it quits. If I was running his career it would go like this:

-Exhibition w/ Ngannou (Boxing vs MMA)
-Undisputed w/ Joshua-Usyk winner
-Mandatory for the WBA/WBO/IBF/WBC
-Andy Ruiz Jr @ Cinco de Mayo (voluntary)
-Joshua/Usyk loser (voluntary)

That way you could walk away as the undisputed champion, and effectively lay claim to having defeated basically everybody who ever held the title. And effectively get out of the business by summer-autumn 2023.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
So after all that, you basically have Fury - Joshua as a 50-50 fight?

Nah, not 50/50.

0 to 10, so more like 70/30-60/40 Fury wins.

Ruiz is more like 90/10-80/20 Fury wins.

Usyk is the 60/40 Fury wins, or 50/50.

But because Tyson Fury has a lot of similar attributes that the Ukrainian has plus being enormous, I think he negates virtually everything Usyk could do. Since so many people are high on the Ukrainian saying he is an all-time great, and since he is similar in size to people like Muhammad Ali, etc--- if Fury shuts him out I think you can make a pretty strong argument that Fury could head to head defeat most if not all of the past heavyweight champions.

But we won't know that until the fight actually happens if it ever happens. Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:21**

ruiz is 99.9 percent easy win for fury, fury is absolutely all wrong for him. would be the chisora rematch again but maybe without the stoppage

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:22**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:21 ruiz is 99.9 percent easy win for fury, fury is absolutely all wrong for him

100%. Can't imagine anything Andy could do to get close.

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:23**

maybe if they put a taco on a stick and attach it to fury's head, it would make andy fight extra hard to close the distance

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:26**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:21 ruiz is 99.9 percent easy win for fury, fury is absolutely all wrong for him

Granted the likelihood of Fury winning is basically a certainty, but I would give Ruiz a better chance of winning than say Robert Helenius and a lot of other heavyweights that are ranked in the top 10 or 15.

The whole point is outside of Usyk there is really nobody left. When Rocky Marciano retired there was really nobody around to challenge him. Patterson was still a light heavyweight when Marciano made his retirement speech. With Fury, all he has is one credible name to really take on and everybody else is basically a foregone conclusion that Fury would beat.

But I know how people's minds operate, since I've been coming to this website for 17 plus years. There will always be critics who will say this person didn't fight this person, etc--- so in a perfect world Fury would fight Usyk, Joshua and Ruiz just to shut up all the future naysayers who might argue he wasn't truly the best of his era cuz he didn't fight everyone who held a belt at one point or another.

Posted: **25 Apr 2022, 17:27**

Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 03:49**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:04
BigDoofus wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 16:37
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 11:15 Interesting regarding the team. Apart from Sugar "topless" Hill, Tyson has mainly kept the same entourage around him, now including Steve Egan. Big Shane, Hughie, Brendan, Tim, Greg, they've been there a while.
What's interesting? That you know their names?
No, clever twat, that AJ and Whyte swap theirs or add to them regularly.

We're told that AJ has had the same crowd around him for years and surely Dean Whyte is more well known than Brendan, Tim and Greg.
I can remember Tyson's "entourage" being his Uncles and cousins and some Asian guys. I didn't see any of them on Saturday.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 04:03**

Fair point, but one uncle dying didn't help. Brendan never leaves his side even on dinners, etc. I don't know what "Dean Whyte" does. Tim has been camp manager for a while. I should have said since he returned to the ring, in which he's looked a much happier fighter.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 04:04**

I wonder where BJS was on Saturday.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 05:34**

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:26
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:21 ruiz is 99.9 percent easy win for fury, fury is absolutely all wrong for him
Granted the likelihood of Fury winning is basically a certainty, but I would give Ruiz a better chance of winning than say Robert Helenius and a lot of other heavyweights that are ranked in the top 10 or 15.

The whole point is outside of Usyk there is really nobody left. When Rocky Marciano retired there was really nobody around to challenge him. Patterson was still a light heavyweight when Marciano made his retirement speech. With Fury, all he has is one credible name to really take on and everybody else is basically a foregone conclusion that Fury would beat.

But I know how people's minds operate, since I've been coming to this website for 17 plus years. There will always be critics who will say this person didn't fight this person, etc--- so in a perfect world Fury would fight Usyk, Joshua and Ruiz just to shut up all the future naysayers who might argue he wasn't truly the best of his era cuz he didn't fight everyone who held a belt at one point or another.

Future naysayers are the worst. In the case of Fury, he really does need to fight and beat Joshua/Usyk winner, and some other names, otherwise the future naysayers will, for once, be right in their criticisms.

If I would go back in time, I would tell Rocky Marciano to take one last job against Nino Valdez. 'Rock, this sounds weird, but all your greatness and accomplishments will mean nothing to future generations unless you provide them with a visual aid of what it looks like when you beat up a tall, fat guy. Yes, I know Valdez is inferior in every way to your previous opponents, but future generations equate size with talent. No I am not crazy!'

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 07:14**

polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.

Most want to make serious money which they often don’t get in their own sport.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 07:17**

Arlovski's chin didn't appear to be up to much.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 07:51**

polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.

Ufc heavies don't care if they can box. They would fight a mountain lion for 20 million.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 08:34**

gregregegg wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 07:51
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.
Ufc heavies don't care if they can box. They would fight a mountain lion for 20 million.

2 million would be more than enough for most

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 09:32**

polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.

Don't do Badr down. If I could only be allowed to watch the career of one fighter again through my lifetime it would be Badr.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 09:43**

jimmystone wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:32
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.
Don't do Badr down. If I could only be allowed to watch the career of one fighter again through my lifetime it would be Badr.

Did you watch Liam Harrisons fight in One Championship last week?

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 10:31**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:43
jimmystone wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:32
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 17:27 Those UFC heavies love to think they could box. Andrei Arlovski made a big thing of training with Freddie Roach and maybe switching, but then went real quiet, real fast. I remember a K1 kick-boxer who could punch, Badr Hari went through a similar reality check.
Don't do Badr down. If I could only be allowed to watch the career of one fighter again through my lifetime it would be Badr.
Did you watch Liam Harrisons fight in One Championship last week?

Yes and so should everyone else. Talk about a turnaround. No combat sport is harder than Muay Thai. Fact.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 12:59**

jimmystone wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 10:31
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:43
jimmystone wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:32

Don't do Badr down. If I could only be allowed to watch the career of one fighter again through my lifetime it would be Badr.
Did you watch Liam Harrisons fight in One Championship last week?
Yes and so should everyone else. Talk about a turnaround. No combat sport is harder than Muay Thai. Fact.

I posted it in the kickboxing forum other day.

Posted: **26 Apr 2022, 13:41**

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 12:59
jimmystone wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 10:31
mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 09:43
Did you watch Liam Harrisons fight in One Championship last week?
Yes and so should everyone else. Talk about a turnaround. No combat sport is harder than Muay Thai. Fact.
I posted it in the kickboxing forum other day.

I’m having a binge tonight

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