BoxRec

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 18:37

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 15:52 I'm currently watching the Rumble in the Jungle for probably the hundredth time, as my son suddenly decided he wanted to watch it tonight for the first time. The idea that Fury would have beaten Ali is absolutely fvcking laughable, and always has been.

I just don’t see how you can watch that fight a think conclusively Ali would beat fury.

Ali was 216lb beating Forman who was 220lb..

There is no real way of knowing but to watch him beat a cruiserweight sized bloke best known for his plodding and say it’s conclusive he would have smashed fury seems a stretch.

My question is where does Ali beat fury? I’m not a huge boxing historian, but what I have seen I just don’t really know where Ali beats fury so conclusively that it’s not even a question…

You do know Fury just lost back-to-back fights against a guy the same height as Ali?

Watch Ali vs Liston, look at his footwork and tell me how Fury beats him.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 19:19

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 18:37

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 15:52 I'm currently watching the Rumble in the Jungle for probably the hundredth time, as my son suddenly decided he wanted to watch it tonight for the first time. The idea that Fury would have beaten Ali is absolutely fvcking laughable, and always has been.

I just don’t see how you can watch that fight a think conclusively Ali would beat fury.

Ali was 216lb beating Forman who was 220lb..

There is no real way of knowing but to watch him beat a cruiserweight sized bloke best known for his plodding and say it’s conclusive he would have smashed fury seems a stretch.

My question is where does Ali beat fury? I’m not a huge boxing historian, but what I have seen I just don’t really know where Ali beats fury so conclusively that it’s not even a question…

You do know Fury just lost back-to-back fights against a guy the same height as Ali?

Watch Ali vs Liston, look at his footwork and tell me how Fury beats him.

Yes fury just lost to a guy the same size as Ali. And the way usyk did it was to walk him down and be crafty. Usyk has proven befor his capability to do this to giants.

Ali has not.

I’m not saying Ali couldn’t, I just think it’s ridiculous how certain you guys are.

Ali never beat anyone good that was significantly bigger than him. Not once… Joe bugner was bigger I guess, by about 3lb and 1 inch…. And that’s the standout big man Ali beat… (cruiserweight sized really)

You're wasting your time.... Not one person can scientifically prove anything if they never boxed. It's all opinions and for every imaginary result they are predicting there's a result that actually happened that contradicts that.

Ali had amazing footwork, that's how you beat Fury in a boxing match, as Usyk just showed (twice)

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 20:27

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 19:19

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 18:37

I just don’t see how you can watch that fight a think conclusively Ali would beat fury.

Ali was 216lb beating Forman who was 220lb..

There is no real way of knowing but to watch him beat a cruiserweight sized bloke best known for his plodding and say it’s conclusive he would have smashed fury seems a stretch.

My question is where does Ali beat fury? I’m not a huge boxing historian, but what I have seen I just don’t really know where Ali beats fury so conclusively that it’s not even a question…

You do know Fury just lost back-to-back fights against a guy the same height as Ali?

Watch Ali vs Liston, look at his footwork and tell me how Fury beats him.

Yes fury just lost to a guy the same size as Ali. And the way usyk did it was to walk him down and be crafty. Usyk has proven befor his capability to do this to giants.

Ali has not.

I’m not saying Ali couldn’t, I just think it’s ridiculous how certain you guys are.

Ali never beat anyone good that was significantly bigger than him. Not once… Joe bugner was bigger I guess, by about 3lb and 1 inch…. And that’s the standout big man Ali beat… (cruiserweight sized really)

Ali isn't Usyk, he's Ali. He doesn't need to fight like Usyk to beat him. Ali hasn't beaten anyone Fury's size, just the same way Fury hasn't beaten anyone Ali's size.

I'll ask again. How does any version of Fury beat the Ali from the Liston fight?

I was really hoping the Usyk victories over Fury / AJ would finally put to bed all these stupid suggestions that size is the most important thing in heavyweight boxing. Apparently not.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:17 I was really hoping the Usyk victories over Fury / AJ would finally put to bed all these stupid suggestions that size is the most important thing in heavyweight boxing. Apparently not.

Yeah, me too. The truth is, Usyk's just a lot better than Fury. Better defence, better chin, better conditioning, better skill, better will.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:27

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:17 I was really hoping the Usyk victories over Fury / AJ would finally put to bed all these stupid suggestions that size is the most important thing in heavyweight boxing. Apparently not.

Yeah, me too. The truth is, Usyk's just a lot better than Fury. Better defence, better chin, better conditioning, better skill, better will.

He's proven himself to be better twice. Both close, competitive fights. You simply can't rate Usyk and not Fury.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:55

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:27

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:17 I was really hoping the Usyk victories over Fury / AJ would finally put to bed all these stupid suggestions that size is the most important thing in heavyweight boxing. Apparently not.

Yeah, me too. The truth is, Usyk's just a lot better than Fury. Better defence, better chin, better conditioning, better skill, better will.

He's proven himself to be better twice. Both close, competitive fights. You simply can't rate Usyk and not Fury.

I rate Fury, just a lot further down the ratings list than Usyk.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:17 I was really hoping the Usyk victories over Fury / AJ would finally put to bed all these stupid suggestions that size is the most important thing in heavyweight boxing. Apparently not.

You wrote what I was going to write.

Skill beats size, ring IQ trumps power. Ernie Terrell was 6'6'' but without the excess heft slowing him down and he couldn't lay a glove on Ali. Liston's jab was longer (and quicker) than any giants yet could only hit thin air.

It does not diminish the enjoyment of watching Fury, Dubois, Joshua et al by admitting Ali would give them a Usyk style drubbing.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:11

gregregegg wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 20:27

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑31 Jan 2025, 19:19

You do know Fury just lost back-to-back fights against a guy the same height as Ali?

Watch Ali vs Liston, look at his footwork and tell me how Fury beats him.

Yes fury just lost to a guy the same size as Ali. And the way usyk did it was to walk him down and be crafty. Usyk has proven befor his capability to do this to giants.

Ali has not.

I’m not saying Ali couldn’t, I just think it’s ridiculous how certain you guys are.

Ali never beat anyone good that was significantly bigger than him. Not once… Joe bugner was bigger I guess, by about 3lb and 1 inch…. And that’s the standout big man Ali beat… (cruiserweight sized really)

Ali isn't Usyk, he's Ali. He doesn't need to fight like Usyk to beat him. Ali hasn't beaten anyone Fury's size, just the same way Fury hasn't beaten anyone Ali's size.

I'll ask again. How does any version of Fury beat the Ali from the Liston fight?

Ali if he was fighting in this era he would probably weight a good 20 lbs more with modern conditioning methods.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Feb 2025, 09:11I'll ask again. How does any version of Fury beat the Ali from the Liston fight?

Successful blindside naughties in a maul.

I think he'd have landed a few more shots than Liston, who despite his famous reach threw predictable arcs. I'm fairly sure Fury's long arms from above would've given Ali some early trouble, catching him when he thought he'd pulled back enough, but post Cooper he never looked vulnerable in his prime and Fury's not outboxing that version over 15.

And whereas Ali often kept his head high and occasionally paid for it, Tyson's bobbing would've given Fury fits. Lewis had his faults but was a league above, and so on. I think Ali's backfoot ability would've seen him to a points win over Usyk, but that's an interesting fight.

Comparing historical boxers v present just doesn’t work. It really doesn’t.
The present is watered down I no comparison.
Let’s have Ezzard Charles v Betervbiev. Who you got? It’s fugazi.

Actually. Fury vs Primo Carnera is a better fit for a fantasy fight.
Fury’s resume isn’t stacked at all - proven.

Talk v Ali is cheap. Nonsense. Doesn’t mean anything.

All the other blurb re: Liston, Frazier and Foreman is just that. Blurb.

look. I like the guy. He has overcome lots of demons. Sometimes a jerk but aren’t we all?
But… he has milked it for all its worth. So chapeau Tyson. Best to you on a happy retirement. Well deserved.

Fury is now training for an Usyk trilogy, but he’s doing it right this time. He’s training with someone Usyk’s size.

He looks really happy in his recent videos, clearly enjoying retirement.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 Feb 2025, 08:35 Fury is now training for an Usyk trilogy, but he’s doing it right this time. He’s training with someone Usyk’s size.

She could probably beat Tyson over 12 rounds

We have had a lot of value out of Fury. I hope he is retired and happy.

He was at his best over a decade ago when he was lean, fast and hungry. To still be close to the top with tens of millions in the bank, miles on the clock and in relatively bad shape is testament to how good a fighter he is and was. Peter Fury era Tyson was absolute mustard.

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2025, 13:14 Peter Fury era Tyson was absolute mustard.

You mean when he was failing PED tests?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2025, 10:43

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2025, 13:14 Peter Fury era Tyson was absolute mustard.

You mean when he was failing PED tests?

I meant what I said.

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2025, 11:03

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2025, 10:43

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2025, 13:14 Peter Fury era Tyson was absolute mustard.

You mean when he was failing PED tests?

I meant what I said.

And so did I.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Feb 2025, 09:03

Usyk has a new challenger

He shared much more than that, mainly motivational boxing stuff including great comebacks...

joshj909 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2025, 09:19

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Feb 2025, 09:03

Usyk has a new challenger

At least it's someone Usyk's size now..

Fury is a fan of the Rocky series, Apollo went into coaching before embarking on a comeback.