BoxRec

sorry david, Blair a decent bloke fornicating come on.

no politicians are decent blokes, this is common knowledge.

But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

Loftgroov wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I'm certainly not going to blame some poor pudendum who has spent the equivalent of 2 years wages so he can get smuggled from Afghanistan by lorry, dinghy and freight train, and find himself poor, cold and very much alone in our country. Anyone who is prepared to endure something like that, has every right to try and make a living for themselves in this country, and provided they aren't taking the piss (which I am sure the majority are not), fair play and good luck

This is cobblers.

You always refer to immigrants in the singularity e.g. "some poor c*nt". No of course one guy makes sod all difference, but when it's thousands (which it is) it DOES become a problem.

Remember, these people (who you oddly wish the best of luck) don't give a shite about this country, its people, or how long is has taken to build it into what it is. They are just economic migrants looking to cream off a fatter land. Think of all the history and blood, sweat, tears, and wars that went into making Britain (not that you were a party to any of it of course – so easy to forget and dismiss). What gives some bastard from Bosnia the right to just come on in and join the party? f*ck them! It wasn’t them that helped build the country or its infrastructure so why the free ticket to come and help themselves to what it offers? Did we fight WW2 for that??? F*ck me…if only those guys who died knew what this country was becoming. They’d have defected in a second.

Imagine coming home from work to find me sat in your lounge simply saying “so you built this place and pay the mortgage and bills eh? Well I want some of this life too..and for free…so f*ck you!..I’m staying” Same “principle”.

Any ethnic minorities born here who work hard and contribute, fair play to them and I’m glad they are here. Any illegal ones (black, white..asian..or green..I don’t care) need to f*ck off.

'Economic Migrants' What you mean like British who went to India, China, Africa and made a killing nicking all of their resources? Blimey mate, what a short sighted vision.

And if someone comes here and works for a living, what's the problem with that. People go from this country all over the world to make a living, what's the difference?

I am not talking about getting it all for free. You assume that everyone who comes here sponges off the dole. Well that isn't true.

As I said before, previously, Asylum seekers, who by international law have the right to seek asylum somewhere were NOT ALLOWED to work.

Do you really have a problem with someone coming here

Oh, and much of this country was built by Carribbean and Irish people who came over here in the 1950's to do the work because so many English people died.

Many thousands of Carribbean, Chinese, Burmese, Indian, Gurkha and African troops died in the 2nd world war too, as they were part of the commonwealth armed forces. Are we now to say that their descendents can 'fornicate off' as you so nicely put it. What about all the Polish, Russians, etc who died as part of the allied war effort, these people are all part of our history, and without them we wouldn't have been able to win the war.

Many of the immigrants you refer to, are entitled to come here as they are part of the British commonwealth. They are still however economic migrants.

How do you know people don't give a shit about this country? A large proportion of people in this country of all colours consider themselves British. Amir Khan's family were economic migrants, so were Naseem Hamed's both families raised children and ran their own businesses to get them where they are now. Would you rather they never came here, or are you only interested in talking about those cases where there's a negative story?

A government study on immigration concluded that immigration contributes far more to the exchequer than it takes out. Not everyone from overseas is a leech looking to bleed the system dry, many of them just want opportunities to work and make a life for themselves, what is wrong with that?

Anyone who takes the piss, born here or not deserves scorn, I've no time for people who believe they are 'owed' a living, but if someone comes here from abroad and carves a life out for themself through hard work, good luck to them, born here or not. The world gets smaller by the day, and we all just have to learn to deal with it and administer it sensibly.

DavidPayne wrote:But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. You sound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mention of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston or being killed.

Loftgroov wrote:DavidPayne - Blair hasn't reduced unemployment. He has fiddled the figures, wake up!

Haven't you noticed how anyone unemployed is now suddenly "in further education" ..or "in jobseekers training" etc etc. Thereby striking them of the list of REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED. It is the REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED figure that has gone down, not the actual 'on the street number of unemployed people". It's just how you choose to creatively count.

So more people in further education is a bad thing.

More people being trained is a bad thing.

And if you want to discuss changes to methods of counting - the tories introduce 26 [fact] and couldn't get it under 2 million.

DavidPayne wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:DavidPayne - Blair hasn't reduced unemployment. He has fiddled the figures, wake up!

Haven't you noticed how anyone unemployed is now suddenly "in further education" ..or "in jobseekers training" etc etc. Thereby striking them of the list of REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED. It is the REGISTERED UNEMPLOYED figure that has gone down, not the actual 'on the street number of unemployed people". It's just how you choose to creatively count.

So more people in further education is a bad thing.

More people being trained is a bad thing.

And if you want to discuss changes to methods of counting - the tories introduce 26 [fact] and couldn't get it under 2 million.

But where does this "training" lead to? Nowhere. They don't actually get anywhere. It's just a fiddle.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I just caught Michael Howard on TV, and I was almost sick to my stomach listening to that slavering drooling pudendum, he has to be the biggest hypocrite in politics. He had the gall to say 'the people want a government which is acountable!"

What!!!!

Does everyone remember what a smug, self-serving, lying and devious fornicator he was when he was in power? He used to sit their sneering and grinning, knowing full well that due to their huge majiroty, the tories could vote in almost any legislation they wanted.


I think It's sad that people seem to think their problems will go away if we stop immigration. I agree there should be sensible limits to all things.

I'm fornicating piss poor, and I don't own any property, but I'm not going to blame anyone but myself, and my family for never making any bloody money. It's in my hands to change it, and I'm certainly not going to blame some poor pudendum who has spent the equivalent of 2 years wages so he can get smuggled from Afghanistan by lorry, dinghy and freight train, and find himself poor, cold and very much alone in our country. Anyone who is prepared to endure something like that, has every right to try and make a living for themselves in this country, and provided they aren't taking the piss (which I am sure the majority are not), fair play and good luck.

Lest we forget, the vast riches (this is STILL one of the Richest nations on earth) and trading infrastructure of this country was built on the backs of the forced labour and raping of resources of our huge empire, which we only kissed goodbye to after the 2nd world war.

It amazes me that people get pissed about immigration when we went all over the world and took what we wanted, when and from whom as we saw fit....If it wasn't for that, this country would be a tiny and far from prosperour bit part player in world politics. Live by the sword and all that....

Could it be that your Labour values brainwashed you against going for financial gain through business?

Loftgroov wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. Yous ound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mentions of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston.

That war was about two things, and two things only.

1 Margaret thatcher boosting her popularity because at the time she wasn't doing very well.
2 Oil exploration rights.

Do you honestly think it was anything to do with the Falkland Islanders?

The whole war could easily have been avoided, but Thatcher chose to make it happen because she knew a war would be good for her popularity ratings, especially as the Argentinians didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

There are wars that need to be fought, and wars that don't, and that one certainly didn't need to be. How many people's lives were sacrificed to satisfy her political ambitions. Shame on her.

James - when did I refer to the commonwealth countries having to F'off?

Bosnia is part of the commonwealth, along with Afganistan is it?

Graham Brett wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I just caught Michael Howard on TV, and I was almost sick to my stomach listening to that slavering drooling pudendum, he has to be the biggest hypocrite in politics. He had the gall to say 'the people want a government which is acountable!"

What!!!!

Does everyone remember what a smug, self-serving, lying and devious fornicator he was when he was in power? He used to sit their sneering and grinning, knowing full well that due to their huge majiroty, the tories could vote in almost any legislation they wanted.


I think It's sad that people seem to think their problems will go away if we stop immigration. I agree there should be sensible limits to all things.

I'm fornicating piss poor, and I don't own any property, but I'm not going to blame anyone but myself, and my family for never making any bloody money. It's in my hands to change it, and I'm certainly not going to blame some poor pudendum who has spent the equivalent of 2 years wages so he can get smuggled from Afghanistan by lorry, dinghy and freight train, and find himself poor, cold and very much alone in our country. Anyone who is prepared to endure something like that, has every right to try and make a living for themselves in this country, and provided they aren't taking the piss (which I am sure the majority are not), fair play and good luck.

Lest we forget, the vast riches (this is STILL one of the Richest nations on earth) and trading infrastructure of this country was built on the backs of the forced labour and raping of resources of our huge empire, which we only kissed goodbye to after the 2nd world war.

It amazes me that people get pissed about immigration when we went all over the world and took what we wanted, when and from whom as we saw fit....If it wasn't for that, this country would be a tiny and far from prosperour bit part player in world politics. Live by the sword and all that....

Could it be that your Labour values brainwashed you against going for financial gain through business?

Nope, a few bad choices, a curtailed career and difficulty getting into a new profession in my 30's. I'm not done yet though.

Loftgroov wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. You sound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mention of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston or being killed.

So the Belgrano is the only one you take issue with?

And you sound like the closet right wing nazi that helped voted in the snakes four times because you believed what you read in the SUN and when you got older the Daily Mail.

Loftgroov wrote:James - when did I refer to the commonwealth countries having to F'off?

Bosnia is part of the commonwealth, along with Afganistan is it?

Your tirade seemed to be directed at all 'economic migrants.' I was merely pointing out that a lot of them are from the commonwealth countries.

I don't want people sponging off my hard earned tax money either mate, I just think it's all too easy to assume that everyone who comes here from abroad is doing so.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. Yous ound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mentions of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston.

That war was about two things, and two things only.

1 Margaret thatcher boosting her popularity because at the time she wasn't doing very well.
2 Oil exploration rights.

Do you honestly think it was anything to do with the Falkland Islanders?

The whole war could easily have been avoided, but Thatcher chose to make it happen because she knew a war would be good for her popularity ratings, especially as the Argentinians didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

There are wars that need to be fought, and wars that don't, and that one certainly didn't need to be. How many people's lives were sacrificed to satisfy her political ambitions. Shame on her.

???? Christ knows where you read some of the stuff you do.

Fact - Argentina invaded the Falklands, which were island under British sovereignty. They I.N.V.A.D.E.D

So Argentina were there first, with military powers, looking to take an island belonging to us. They were the agressors.

So what should Thatcher have done? Simply said – “Gahhh those pesky Argentines. They’d invaded an island belonging to us! Ohhh well..what cads they are! I guess we’ll just let them have it. That would send out a great signal on behalf of the monarch and the commonwealth.

So you now question Thatcher for defending British sovereignty? Tell the residents of Port Stanley that it was “just for oil exploration rights”. What was to happen to them? Learn to speak Spanish or tough?????? What gives you the right to suggest defending a small island we own as being a waste of time and to be avoided? You don’t live there do you.

DavidPayne wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:But its the legacy of Thatcherism.

That and sending British forces to find her errant, malingering son in the desert, when in truth it turns out he was probably trying to sell sand to the arabs.

Remember Westland, the Belgrano, Coal, Steel, Shipyards, Nurses pay, crumbling schools, closing hospitals, £1.80 an hour wages, VAT, POLL tax, taking away school milk, selling GAS, BT, ELECTRIC, WATER, remember boom and bust economics, luton riots, poll tax riots, cash for questions, 4 million unemployed...........

Remember, Remember.

The labour government hasn't been perfect, but they've been better for health of this nation and if voter apathy or misguided faith in the tories breaks their tenure I'll never forgive you lot.

Anyway, enough already....

What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. You sound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mention of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston or being killed.

So the Belgrano is the only one you take issue with?

And you sound like the closet right wing nazi that helped voted in the snakes four times because you believed what you read in the SUN and when you got older the Daily Mail.

Why does having strong views about immigration, always lead to accusations of being a "Nazi"? Should I start referring to you as Comrade David, or would that be equally stupid?

Nope.

But then does believing sinking a cruise ship that is sailing out of the exclusion zone and away from the British fleet being sunk at just the time we're trying to negotiate a truce in Uruguay, that would have denied THATCHER the war she knew would stir up pro-establishment bravado and a victory in the 1983 election, also make me an anti-war nambi-pambi prat.

Despite having supported Blair on Iraq in this very thread?

Loftgroov wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Loftgroov wrote: What was wrong with the Belgrano??????????

We were in a war, you namby-pampy prat!!!!! It was a WAR!! We either had to sink it, or be shafted. Yous ound like the kind of liberal nonce who would actually rather the Argentines won!!!!

Lets give the Isle of Wight to the Belgians whilst we're at it???? No mentions of the Sheffield which we had sunk I see, with hundreds of British sailors suffering horrific burns e.g. Simon Weston.

That war was about two things, and two things only.

1 Margaret thatcher boosting her popularity because at the time she wasn't doing very well.
2 Oil exploration rights.

Do you honestly think it was anything to do with the Falkland Islanders?

The whole war could easily have been avoided, but Thatcher chose to make it happen because she knew a war would be good for her popularity ratings, especially as the Argentinians didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

There are wars that need to be fought, and wars that don't, and that one certainly didn't need to be. How many people's lives were sacrificed to satisfy her political ambitions. Shame on her.

???? Christ knows where you read some of the stuff you do.

Fact - Argentina invaded the Falklands, which were island under British sovereignty. They I.N.V.A.D.E.D

So Argentina were there first, with military powers, looking to take an island belonging to us. They were the agressors.

So what should Thatcher have done? Simply said – “Gahhh those pesky Argentines. They’d invaded an island belonging to us! Ohhh well..what cads they are! I guess we’ll just let them have it. That would send out a great signal on behalf of the monarch and the British empire.

So you now question Thatcher for defending British sovereignty? Tell the residents of Port Stanley that it was “just for oil exploration rights”. What was to happen to them? Learn to speak Spanish or tough?????? What gives you the right to suggest defending a small island we own as being a waste of time and to be avoided? You don’t live there do you.

That is an unbelievable simplification of the situation. The Falklands was a 'disputed territory' with neither Britain nor Argentina having a rock solid claim to the Island, which orignally belonged to spain, who ceded control to Argentina. I suggest you do some reading around the subject, rather than just toeing the line which the conservative government span at the time, that it was an inevitable response to a declaration of war. The Argentinians had been trying for 15 years to reach a diplomatic solution with Britian to no avail, over an Island they themselves had sovreignity over historically. It doesn't strike you as odd that somewhere so close to Argentina was 'owned' by Britain. Britain's claim to the Island was pretty tenuous.

The Belgrano was a hostile ship. It was actually a gun-armed cruiser, complete with exocet missiles and accompanied by two naval frigates.

You make it sound like the Queen Mary.

This is top class entertainment for someone who couldnt care less, keep up the good work

The phrase 'can of worms' springs to mind.

Freiheit wrote:This is top class entertainment for someone who couldnt care less, keep up the good work

thats the best post in the thread, funny

It was a disputed territory for 150 years without any blood spilt but in LOFT's defence Argentina endured a military coup prior and they promised to reclaim the malvines so when they invaded, you couldn't blame the Government for reacting.

The conspiracy theories around the Belgrano extend quite deep with lost records, murders all supposedly linked.....

The Belgrano represented no threat and was sunk heading into Argentinean waters, though admittedly, the guy in charge of the ship has since stated this was a temporary manouvre.

However, we're wandering off point.

Its been fun to vent my spleen loft, BUT I doubt the debate is going to levitate to any more meaningful plane, so I'll depart.

Adios.

As for the immigration question - how far back do we have to go in the kicking out of illegal immigrants?

And will your policy be a two way thing, i.e.

will half of Australia, South Africa, Canada, the US be heading home to good old Blighty following a couple of hundred years as illegal immigrants or descendants there of, of illegal immigrants?

DavidPayne wrote:As for the immigration question - how far back do we have to go in the kicking out of illegal immigrants?

And will your policy be a two way thing, i.e.

will half of Australia, South Africa, Canada, the US be heading home to good old Blighty following a couple of hundred years as illegal immigrants or descendants there of, of illegal immigrants?

thought you said you were shutting up Payne,
u'd make a good politician...and just another thing.....

I would be interested if anyone has the figures of the difference between the amount of money spent as a result of illegal immigrants and legat immigrants (including lost tax), the money estimated lost beacuse of brits evading tax and the amount of money spent protecting our sovreignity (military). I suspect that the first is a tiny amount while the other two are pretty huge, so this right wing immigrant bashing and racialisation of social problems may look pretty absurd in the light of the real figures out of the total pot of gold.

I am not a fan of labour, in large part due to the Iraq invasion, but I think the tories would be worse. Neither side seems to remember that they are public servants and not the other way round anyway. They work for me!

The government compiled some figures a while back, and what they published was that immigrants overall contributed several billion to the exchequer.

The amount spent on the military would be offset by the arms trade, which is vast in this country. It would be worth compiling all of these figures.


[/url]http://www.caat.org.uk/information/fact ... rs.php[url]

[/url]http://www.caat.org.uk/information/fact ... ts.php[url]

Labour and Tories both know full well that immigration is nothing like the problem it is made out to be, and in fact Britain has always profited from immigration, and a large proportion of our labour force are economic migrants, and have been for some time, since the arse fell out of manufacturing and most of our own workforce went into service industries.

Whilst there are of course some problems which need dealing with, the whole thing is a political hot potato which suits the newspapers looking for scandal. So easy to tap into people's innate fear of the unknown.[/url]