BoxRec

Decagon wrote:Razor Ruddock simply didn't have the mental makeup to be an elite boxer. Did he ever even beat a top-10 heavyweight?

Completely agree about the mental make up. His only defining wins were:

W split 10 Mike Weaver
KO 7 James "Bonecrusher" Smith
TKO 4 Michael Dokes
TKO 8 Greg Page

All four are former heavyweight champions and I'm sure at least one of them was in the top ten at the time. But still ...

evndrbsn wrote:

Decagon wrote:Razor Ruddock simply didn't have the mental makeup to be an elite boxer. Did he ever even beat a top-10 heavyweight?

Completely agree about the mental make up. His only defining wins were:

W split 10 Mike Weaver
KO 7 James "Bonecrusher" Smith
TKO 4 Michael Dokes
TKO 8 Greg Page

All four are former heavyweight champions and I'm sure at least one of them was in the top ten at the time. But still ...

dont bother,


razorKO rates razor ruddock and gerrie coetzee over marciano and liston.


jaco TKO 7 ruddock
page KO 8 Coetzee

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

evndrbsn wrote:

Decagon wrote:Razor Ruddock simply didn't have the mental makeup to be an elite boxer. Did he ever even beat a top-10 heavyweight?

Completely agree about the mental make up. His only defining wins were:

W split 10 Mike Weaver
KO 7 James "Bonecrusher" Smith
TKO 4 Michael Dokes
TKO 8 Greg Page

All four are former heavyweight champions and I'm sure at least one of them was in the top ten at the time. But still ...

dont bother,


razorKO rates razor ruddock and gerrie coetzee over marciano and liston.


jaco TKO 7 ruddock
page KO 8 Coetzee

Ruddock is certainly not in the top 10 HW list, but you can make certainly make a case for Coetzee to be in at least the top 20.

evndrbsn wrote:

Decagon wrote:Razor Ruddock simply didn't have the mental makeup to be an elite boxer. Did he ever even beat a top-10 heavyweight?

Completely agree about the mental make up. His only defining wins were:

W split 10 Mike Weaver
KO 7 James "Bonecrusher" Smith
TKO 4 Michael Dokes
TKO 8 Greg Page

All four are former heavyweight champions and I'm sure at least one of them was in the top ten at the time. But still ...

They are all good wins, and if Im not mistaken both Bonecrusher and Dokes were in the top ten as Crusher was comming of the loss to Tyson and Dokes last lost was in a brilliant fight to Holyfield.

Ruddock is also one of only two men to stop Page.

Razor I have never heard so much crap from any other poster. I've had arguments with other forum users but at least they know something about boxing. Lewis held 1000 times! That must be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims on this forum followed closely by Coetzer (note thats how his name is spelt) being in the top 20 HW all time list!

Decagon wrote:

evndrbsn wrote:

Decagon wrote:Razor Ruddock simply didn't have the mental makeup to be an elite boxer. Did he ever even beat a top-10 heavyweight?

Completely agree about the mental make up. His only defining wins were:

W split 10 Mike Weaver
KO 7 James "Bonecrusher" Smith
TKO 4 Michael Dokes
TKO 8 Greg Page

All four are former heavyweight champions and I'm sure at least one of them was in the top ten at the time. But still ...

Weaver had lost two out of his previous three bouts by KO. Smith hadn't won a fight in almost three years. Page had lost to every credible opponent he'd faced since exposing that loser, Coetzee, and some of the non-credible fighters he'd faced, too, like 5-5-1 Mark Wills, and a geriatric Joe Bugner. Dokes? Maybe. Can anyone look that up?

Ruddock still beat all 4 men convincingly, not even Tyson could take out Bonecrusher like Ruddock did with one punch. Ignore the the SD Ruddock got when he fought Weaver, Ruddock won every round apart from round 4 when Weaver had him trouble when he landed his best left hook....but yet Ruddock refused to go down.

Page beat Coetzee when Gerrie was comming of a year layoff and had none of his orginal handlers around him also Coetzee went back to his old style of winging right hands.....and he still nearly knocked Page out. Page was fighting dirty the entire fight, hitting Coetzee before the bell in round 2, hitting Coetzee AFTER the bell in round 6, and knocking him down in round 8 when the time went over 3 minutes. Coetzee should of been in his corner attended to by his seconds and should of been giving at least one more round considering the fight was turning Coetzee's way.

As for Dokes well Ill just say this, Coetzee won every single round and knocked out a PRIME Dokes FLAT. About 6-7 years later an old drugged up Dokes gave a PRIME Holyfield probably the hardest fight of his career and at one point was actually ahead on the cards. Holyfield struggled terribly with an old Dokes while Coetzee simply outboxed him and put him out of his misery to win the title.

Arsenal wrote:Razor I have never heard so much crap from any other poster. I've had arguments with other forum users but at least they know something about boxing. Lewis held 1000 times! That must be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims on this forum followed closely by Coetzer (note thats how his name is spelt) being in the top 20 HW all time list!

Well I know for certain Lewis clinched Tyson more than Bonecrusher did. But at least you can give Bonecrusher credit for lasting the full 12 against a prime Tyson. Arrogant Lewis however was holding on for dear life against an old washed up Tyson just in there for the pay day, then the fact where Lewis finally knocked Tyson out he was punching his own chest and showing off to the crowd that he just knocked out a prime Ali! I really couldnt believe I paid to watch this chump hugging Tyson for 8 pittiful rounds. Lewis also did his pittiful holding on Tua, where two of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division fought but Lewis had to break the rules and clinch constantly.

Lewis also resorted to his usual disgraceful tactics of butting Vitali when Klitscko was giving him a boxing lesson. Add to the fact that Lewis ducked John freaking Ruiz.
As I stated before, Lewis is definetly the most boring HW in history (Yes even more than Ruiz, Byrd and Jimmy Young) But also as a fair claim to be the most boring fighter in history.

RazorKO wrote:

Arsenal wrote:Razor I have never heard so much crap from any other poster. I've had arguments with other forum users but at least they know something about boxing. Lewis held 1000 times! That must be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims on this forum followed closely by Coetzer (note thats how his name is spelt) being in the top 20 HW all time list!

Well I know for certain Lewis clinched Tyson more than Bonecrusher did. But at least you can give Bonecrusher credit for lasting the full 12 against a prime Tyson. Arrogant Lewis however was holding on for dear life against an old washed up Tyson just in there for the pay day, then the fact where Lewis finally knocked Tyson out he was punching his own chest and showing off to the crowd that he just knocked out a prime Ali! I really couldnt believe I paid to watch this chump hugging Tyson for 8 pittiful rounds. Lewis also did his pittiful holding on Tua, where two of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division fought but Lewis had to break the rules and clinch constantly.

Lewis also resorted to his usual disgraceful tactics of butting Vitali when Klitscko was giving him a boxing lesson. Add to the fact that Lewis ducked John freaking Ruiz.
As I stated before, Lewis is definetly the most boring HW in history (Yes even more than Ruiz, Byrd and Jimmy Young) But also as a fair claim to be the most boring fighter in history.

How could he have ducked Ruiz when NO-ONE thought Ruiz deserved the title shot and Lewis was applauded for telling the WBA and King to crew themselves and fight Grant, who EVERYONE saw as a bigger threat than Ruiz. There is a way to fight a clinching opponent . . .time your uppercuts. Both Tua and Tyson vs Lewis were out of shape ponderous slugs who were asking to be outboxed.

RazorKO wrote:

Arsenal wrote:Razor I have never heard so much crap from any other poster. I've had arguments with other forum users but at least they know something about boxing. Lewis held 1000 times! That must be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims on this forum followed closely by Coetzer (note thats how his name is spelt) being in the top 20 HW all time list!

Well I know for certain Lewis clinched Tyson more than Bonecrusher did. But at least you can give Bonecrusher credit for lasting the full 12 against a prime Tyson. Arrogant Lewis however was holding on for dear life against an old washed up Tyson just in there for the pay day, then the fact where Lewis finally knocked Tyson out he was punching his own chest and showing off to the crowd that he just knocked out a prime Ali! I really couldnt believe I paid to watch this chump hugging Tyson for 8 pittiful rounds. Lewis also did his pittiful holding on Tua, where two of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division fought but Lewis had to break the rules and clinch constantly.

Lewis also resorted to his usual disgraceful tactics of butting Vitali when Klitscko was giving him a boxing lesson. Add to the fact that Lewis ducked John freaking Ruiz.
As I stated before, Lewis is definetly the most boring HW in history (Yes even more than Ruiz, Byrd and Jimmy Young) But also as a fair claim to be the most boring fighter in history.

You're way too harsh on Lewis, sure he held a fair bit gainst Tyson but watch the fight and you'll see that Tyson did a fair bit of holding himself as he was getting the crap jabbed out of him. Ruddocks main claim to fame is his fights with Tyson and his wins over washed up Weaver and Smith etc... he was only a fringe world class fighter really....... I agree that Coetzee is generally very underrated, one of my favourite fighters and he was to be blunt robbed against Page, being koed at about 3.53 of the round!!!...

silkov wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

Arsenal wrote:Razor I have never heard so much crap from any other poster. I've had arguments with other forum users but at least they know something about boxing. Lewis held 1000 times! That must be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims on this forum followed closely by Coetzer (note thats how his name is spelt) being in the top 20 HW all time list!

Well I know for certain Lewis clinched Tyson more than Bonecrusher did. But at least you can give Bonecrusher credit for lasting the full 12 against a prime Tyson. Arrogant Lewis however was holding on for dear life against an old washed up Tyson just in there for the pay day, then the fact where Lewis finally knocked Tyson out he was punching his own chest and showing off to the crowd that he just knocked out a prime Ali! I really couldnt believe I paid to watch this chump hugging Tyson for 8 pittiful rounds. Lewis also did his pittiful holding on Tua, where two of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division fought but Lewis had to break the rules and clinch constantly.

Lewis also resorted to his usual disgraceful tactics of butting Vitali when Klitscko was giving him a boxing lesson. Add to the fact that Lewis ducked John freaking Ruiz.
As I stated before, Lewis is definetly the most boring HW in history (Yes even more than Ruiz, Byrd and Jimmy Young) But also as a fair claim to be the most boring fighter in history.

You're way too harsh on Lewis, sure he held a fair bit gainst Tyson but watch the fight and you'll see that Tyson did a fair bit of holding himself as he was getting the crap jabbed out of him. Ruddocks main claim to fame is his fights with Tyson and his wins over washed up Weaver and Smith etc... he was only a fringe world class fighter really....... I agree that Coetzee is generally very underrated, one of my favourite fighters and he was to be blunt robbed against Page, being koed at about 3.53 of the round!!!...

One of the most refreshing posts ive seen in a while Silkov! I never knew you were a fan of Coetzee, I know you and I certainly had our differences regrading Tyson but I do agree despite Tyson being old when he fought Lewis, Lewis was beating Tyson up very easily in a sustained manner.

Though I think Ruddock was more than a fringe contender, he was up there with the top men in the 90's like Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis. I also thought Ruddock was robbed in his fight with Morrison where the ref stopped the fight way to early. Sure Razor went down hard from a massive Morrison left hook but Ruddock did look ok and was still in the fight.

RazorKO wrote:

silkov wrote:

RazorKO wrote: Well I know for certain Lewis clinched Tyson more than Bonecrusher did. But at least you can give Bonecrusher credit for lasting the full 12 against a prime Tyson. Arrogant Lewis however was holding on for dear life against an old washed up Tyson just in there for the pay day, then the fact where Lewis finally knocked Tyson out he was punching his own chest and showing off to the crowd that he just knocked out a prime Ali! I really couldnt believe I paid to watch this chump hugging Tyson for 8 pittiful rounds. Lewis also did his pittiful holding on Tua, where two of the hardest punchers in the heavyweight division fought but Lewis had to break the rules and clinch constantly.

Lewis also resorted to his usual disgraceful tactics of butting Vitali when Klitscko was giving him a boxing lesson. Add to the fact that Lewis ducked John freaking Ruiz.
As I stated before, Lewis is definetly the most boring HW in history (Yes even more than Ruiz, Byrd and Jimmy Young) But also as a fair claim to be the most boring fighter in history.

You're way too harsh on Lewis, sure he held a fair bit gainst Tyson but watch the fight and you'll see that Tyson did a fair bit of holding himself as he was getting the crap jabbed out of him. Ruddocks main claim to fame is his fights with Tyson and his wins over washed up Weaver and Smith etc... he was only a fringe world class fighter really....... I agree that Coetzee is generally very underrated, one of my favourite fighters and he was to be blunt robbed against Page, being koed at about 3.53 of the round!!!...

One of the most refreshing posts ive seen in a while Silkov! I never knew you were a fan of Coetzee, I know you and I certainly had our differences regrading Tyson but I do agree despite Tyson being old when he fought Lewis, Lewis was beating Tyson up very easily in a sustained manner.

Though I think Ruddock was more than a fringe contender, he was up there with the top men in the 90's like Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis. I also thought Ruddock was robbed in his fight with Morrison where the ref stopped the fight way to early. Sure Razor went down hard from a massive Morrison left hook but Ruddock did look ok and was still in the fight.

Ruddock was getting the piss beat out of him at the end of the fight. If the fight was stopped much later, the boxing world could have had another Emile Griffith-Benny Paret disaster.

Ruddock in my opinion was winning the fight, he floored Morrison with an uppercut in the first and had him generally on the run for much of the bout. Morrison landed his big left hook in the sixth dropping Ruddock but Ruddock was up very quickly. He was taking a few punches from Morrison on the ropes but they were just arm punches and the ref proceeded to stop the fight.

But I have to say, I applaud the American crowds for treating Ruddock as well as other foreign fighters the way they deserve to be treated. Even though the fans in the arena were all Morrison fans...none of them booed or taunted Razor like he was when he was tautned in London against Lewis.
I also noticed that the American crowds never boo other fighters national anthems unlike the European fans tend to do and in my opinion the Americans are more respectful and have more dignity when it comes to sport.

RazorKO wrote:Ruddock in my opinion was winning the fight, he floored Morrison with an uppercut in the first and had him generally on the run for much of the bout. Morrison landed his big left hook in the sixth dropping Ruddock but Ruddock was up very quickly. He was taking a few punches from Morrison on the ropes but they were just arm punches and the ref proceeded to stop the fight.

But I have to say, I applaud the American crowds for treating Ruddock as well as other foreign fighters the way they deserve to be treated. Even though the fans in the arena were all Morrison fans...none of them booed or taunted Razor like he was when he was tautned in London against Lewis.
I also noticed that the American crowds never boo other fighters national anthems unlike the European fans tend to do and in my opinion the Americans are more respectful and have more dignity when it comes to sport.

Ruddock and Morrison were two strong heavyweights. Ruddock was taking too many shots at the end. Its true it could have gone on a seocnd or two longer, but all that would have happened is Ruddock take unnecessary punishment and risk his health.

RazorKO wrote: I also noticed that the American crowds never boo other fighters national anthems unlike the European fans tend to do and in my opinion the Americans are more respectful and have more dignity when it comes to sport.

no self respecting american hooligan would be wasting time watching boxing or footy like his european counterparts. to the average american thug the golf galleries are where the actions at.

Caulk I would have to disagree about Lewis's prime. I don't think it was 10 years. You are right that Lewis blossomed late and I still think his display of boxing against Tyson was his best even though I think he was out of his prime. But I think we can both agree that Tyson and Lewis both lost to a bum in their prime! Not everyone's perfect eh?

Razor I'm still trying to control my laughter about Lewis clinching 1000 and Coetzer being in the top 20 HW of all time.

RazorKO wrote:Ruddock in my opinion was winning the fight, he floored Morrison with an uppercut in the first and had him generally on the run for much of the bout. Morrison landed his big left hook in the sixth dropping Ruddock but Ruddock was up very quickly. He was taking a few punches from Morrison on the ropes but they were just arm punches and the ref proceeded to stop the fight.

But I have to say, I applaud the American crowds for treating Ruddock as well as other foreign fighters the way they deserve to be treated. Even though the fans in the arena were all Morrison fans...none of them booed or taunted Razor like he was when he was tautned in London against Lewis.
I also noticed that the American crowds never boo other fighters national anthems unlike the European fans tend to do and in my opinion the Americans are more respectful and have more dignity when it comes to
sport.

You obviously haven't been in an American crowd during a Golf tourneyment..... where I've seen just about the worst behaviour of any sporting occasion. Generally British fight fans are very fair and appreciative of good fighters no matter where they come from, most fighters when fighting abroad expect to hear some boos etc but this isn't usually used as an excuse for a defeat, ...after all the crowd can't get in the ring with their fighter. Razor had world class power and decent skills but he lacked the mental strength and chin to get right to the top...

I agree thats a total BS post, fans can be assholes anywhere, like the Golota-Bowe riot was totally respectful. Philadelphia fans booed Santa Claus!! freaking Santa Claus!!!

silkov wrote:

RazorKO wrote:Ruddock in my opinion was winning the fight, he floored Morrison with an uppercut in the first and had him generally on the run for much of the bout. Morrison landed his big left hook in the sixth dropping Ruddock but Ruddock was up very quickly. He was taking a few punches from Morrison on the ropes but they were just arm punches and the ref proceeded to stop the fight.

But I have to say, I applaud the American crowds for treating Ruddock as well as other foreign fighters the way they deserve to be treated. Even though the fans in the arena were all Morrison fans...none of them booed or taunted Razor like he was when he was tautned in London against Lewis.
I also noticed that the American crowds never boo other fighters national anthems unlike the European fans tend to do and in my opinion the Americans are more respectful and have more dignity when it comes to
sport.

You obviously haven't been in an American crowd during a Golf tourneyment..... where I've seen just about the worst behaviour of any sporting occasion. Generally British fight fans are very fair and appreciative of good fighters no matter where they come from, most fighters when fighting abroad expect to hear some boos etc but this isn't usually used as an excuse for a defeat, ...after all the crowd can't get in the ring with their fighter. Razor had world class power and decent skills but he lacked the mental strength and chin to get right to the top...

You are correct, I havent seen an American crowd during gold tournaments but in my opinion and based on what I have seen in boxing, the Americans crowds have far more respect for foreign atheletes.

Of course every country booes etc but European fight fans take it to a whole new level, for example when Gerald McClelan went to England to fight Benn he was welcomed with a whole load of booes and taunt as well as the disrespectufl booing for the American national anthem, but at the end of the fight where McClelan had fainted I read in an article that some members of the crowd were shouting 'DIE YOU YANK DIE'. Another recent example is how Lacy was treated when he fought Calzaghe. But dont get me wrong Im not saying every European is like these hooligans, Ricky Hatton is my favourite current fighter as well as David Haye - But I just dont like the British fight fans who have to resort to this type of behaviour. Though thats definetly not to say all English fans are hooligans as of course most are not.

Arsenal wrote:Caulk I would have to disagree about Lewis's prime. I don't think it was 10 years. You are right that Lewis blossomed late and I still think his display of boxing against Tyson was his best even though I think he was out of his prime. But I think we can both agree that Tyson and Lewis both lost to a bum in their prime! Not everyone's perfect eh?

Razor I'm still trying to control my laughter about Lewis clinching 1000 and Coetzer being in the top 20 HW of all time.

I got that little bit of information from another message board and it sounded just about right. But Lewis did clinch a hell of a lot of times and he absolutely wasted fight fans time by doing his JabnGrab move and prolonging this dreadful fight. But the thing that makes me laugh was when Lewis was pounding his own chest like he just defeated a prime Tyson. But Tyson didnt go down to Lewis's arrogant standards and instead wiped the blood of Lewis's face and congratulated him showing his compassionte side.

Yeah really boring seeing Tyson get battered. And as for his compassionate side, I doubt a convicted rapist has one.

Arsenal wrote:Yeah really boring seeing Tyson get battered. And as for his compassionate side, I doubt a convicted rapist has one.

The 'Rape' card is getting old. Are you related to Washington by any chance. Evey time I talk about Tyson the fighter, you bring up this crap which isnt remotely about Tyson in the ring.

Ruddock is certainly not in the top 10 HW list, but you can make certainly make a case for Coetzee to be in at least the top 20.

gerrie fuckin coetzee top 20 heavyweight? you must be dicking me.

in coetzees prime he lost to john tate, was knocked out by mike weaver, and was knocked out by lazy ass greg page. so wut if he knocked out dokes, dokes was very drugged up at the time. a much better drug free version of dokes gave holyfield a tough fight.


somehow coetzees gonna beat harry wills, joe jeanette, jersey joe walcott, ezzrd charles, riddock bowe, etc?



ive seen coetzee on film, i am not impressed.

Decagon wrote: Him congratulating Lennox Lewis didn't happen during a boxing match, either, but you brought it up to make Mike Tyson look like a nice guy. He isn't. He's an asshole. He'll probably be dead in 5 or 10 years, and the world will be a better place.

That wasn't very nice to say, but I'm not sure I can argue against it.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Ruddock is certainly not in the top 10 HW list, but you can make certainly make a case for Coetzee to be in at least the top 20.

gerrie fuckin coetzee top 20 heavyweight? you must be dicking me.

in coetzees prime he lost to john tate, was knocked out by mike weaver, and was knocked out by lazy ass greg page. so wut if he knocked out dokes, dokes was very drugged up at the time. a much better drug free version of dokes gave holyfield a tough fight.


somehow coetzees gonna beat harry wills, joe jeanette, jersey joe walcott, ezzrd charles, riddock bowe, etc?



ive seen coetzee on film, i am not impressed.

Coetzee was not in his prime against Tate nor Weaver yet still he gave both men one hell of a fight. Coetzee changed to a more mature fighter once he was fighting in the USA but was robbed in both the Snipes fight and the Pinklon Thomas fight where Coetzee won both fights very comfortably - more so the Snipes fight considering he floored him twice and Renaldo was fighting in survival mode for the first 7 rounds...but yet Snipes gets the win.

As for Page, well I wrote a long description of the fight earlier but Coetzee was off for a year out of the ring and Page was fighting dirty all the way through the fight, just when Gerrie was getting back into the fight Page knocks him down at 3:50 of the round, the time where he should of been in his corner.

Coetzee outboxed and knocked out flat a Prime Dokes, the same Dokes 6 years later gave Holyfield a beating and Holy had to dig down deep to win.
Coetzee is a arguably top 20 heavyweight and the 2nd best white heavyweight fighter coming second to Jerry Quarry and Dempsey.

Decagon wrote:Him congratulating Lennox Lewis didn't happen during a boxing match, either, but you brought it up to make Mike Tyson look like a nice guy. He isn't. He's an asshole. He'll probably be dead in 5 or 10 years, and the world will be a better place.

Ill save that reserve for real disgraceful arseholes e.g cowardly football hooligans who in my opinion are sub human and should be gotten rid off if this world is going to be a better place. And of course murderers, child molesters etc who, like football yobs have caused hurt to innocent people.