Ali MD... Ali is a bit faster and I believe more mobile, a bit tougher, physically stronger (according to Ken Norton), if someone gets hurt in this fight it would likely be Holmes, the jabbing matchup is about equal but Ali edges him in everything else... close fight...
Eh, both big bangers, Foreman hits a bit harder but Liston has a better jab I guess, I suppose Liston has better stamina but George is bigger, I suppose George has a better chin but that's debatable... I go back and forth on this, but right now I'll say George TKO 10...
All-Time Heavyweight Boxing World Cup
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Holmes wins SD over Ali....Holmes was a former sparring partner of Ali's, he couldn't be psyched out by Ali's tricks; prime or no prime, Holmes is vastly under-rated and out of ALL the men who were previously on this tournament, would have given Ali the most trouble. Ali was bad at defense, Holmes had a better jab in my opinion, was a big man, and 20 defenses in 7 years...that's just as good as Ali, though Holmes was in a worse era. I favor Holmes for this one---cus when that man came to fight, he could make ANYBODY look like shit and I think against a prime Ali, he wouild have had more to prove---as he had to follow in Ali's shadow, was in Ali's shadow for too long. Not to say Ali couldnt, he could, but I think Holmes would be all wrong for Ali.
Foreman vs Liston....too close to call in my mind, I could see both men knocking eachother down...I'd say a TKO in the 10th for Foreman to win over Sonny Liston, he just hit harder than Liston. Total KD's in those 10 rounds? 6 KD's, 2 dropped Foreman and 4 dropped Liston.
Foreman vs Liston....too close to call in my mind, I could see both men knocking eachother down...I'd say a TKO in the 10th for Foreman to win over Sonny Liston, he just hit harder than Liston. Total KD's in those 10 rounds? 6 KD's, 2 dropped Foreman and 4 dropped Liston.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Ali UD over Holmes
Liston and Foreman.....if they never knew each other I would say Foreman but since Foreman did know Sonny my guess is that Liston's work would be half done before they entered the ring. So I have to decide if this is going to done in the objective or the subjective state.
I'll choose somewhat objective in a world where both fighters are from the same era and know about each others skills and reputations. Neither are psyched out by the other and neither are young men both just slightly past their primes.
Foreman in a SD JabFest w/fireworks where both fighters make it to the end of 12 rounds and both have taken at least one trip to the canvas.
Liston and Foreman.....if they never knew each other I would say Foreman but since Foreman did know Sonny my guess is that Liston's work would be half done before they entered the ring. So I have to decide if this is going to done in the objective or the subjective state.
I'll choose somewhat objective in a world where both fighters are from the same era and know about each others skills and reputations. Neither are psyched out by the other and neither are young men both just slightly past their primes.
Foreman in a SD JabFest w/fireworks where both fighters make it to the end of 12 rounds and both have taken at least one trip to the canvas.
Personally, I feel sloightly robbed for George Foreman....There's NO way Ali could beat him (apart rope-a-dope). Foreman would be better conditioned than what he has ever been....& he's far more aware by now, of Ali's capabilites and movement around the ring...
Face it floks, Ali might ne "The Greatest" but you don't beat Foreman by throwing light jabs and dancing!
*Foreman would rough-house Ali, take his time, and when Ali dropped his hands and there was an opneing....BOOM! (Foreman lands a devastater)...
Foreman should've went through in the Semis, Jeezamundo was cute, in the fact that he wiated form someone else to blidnly vote for Ali and put Ali through then and there....Very cute indeed...
And as such, I will not be voting in this final round of bouts....
Face it floks, Ali might ne "The Greatest" but you don't beat Foreman by throwing light jabs and dancing!
*Foreman would rough-house Ali, take his time, and when Ali dropped his hands and there was an opneing....BOOM! (Foreman lands a devastater)...
Foreman should've went through in the Semis, Jeezamundo was cute, in the fact that he wiated form someone else to blidnly vote for Ali and put Ali through then and there....Very cute indeed...
And as such, I will not be voting in this final round of bouts....
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
Bulldust!Personally, I feel sloightly robbed for George Foreman....There's NO way Ali could beat him (apart rope-a-dope). Foreman would be better conditioned than what he has ever been....& he's far more aware by now, of Ali's capabilites and movement around the ring...
Face it floks, Ali might ne "The Greatest" but you don't beat Foreman by throwing light jabs and dancing!
*Foreman would rough-house Ali, take his time, and when Ali dropped his hands and there was an opneing....BOOM! (Foreman lands a devastater)...
Foreman should've went through in the Semis, Jeezamundo was cute, in the fact that he wiated form someone else to blidnly vote for Ali and put Ali through then and there....Very cute indeed...
And as such, I will not be voting in this final round of bouts....
Ali was certainly not unbeatable, Frazier beat him during his prime years, Norton beat him, Larry Holmes could certainly have beaten Ali in at least 1 out of 3 fights, and Joe Louis probably would have too. However, no version of Foreman could EVER beat a prime Ali. The fact of the matter is George Foreman struggled most against fast fighters with good skills, such as Ali and Young. Ali performed best against the bigger, slower fighters. If he rematched Foreman straight after the rumble, Ali would almost certainly have won by KO again, and quite likely more convincingly. Styles make fights, and Foreman is made for Ali, and Ali is all wrong for Foreman. Their difference in handspeed is amazing, Ali can pepper George's face all night long.
As for me being cute and waiting for someone else to vote for Ali, that's a bit silly, seeing as Ali got through against Foreman by 5 votes to 2. It was 6 hours after the previous post when I updated the tournament, and "coincidentally" it was a Sunday, the same day I pretty much always update my topics (I'm generally too busy on weeknights).
Now who looks silly?
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
RESULTS FROM THE FINAL AND 3RD PLACE FIGHT-OFF
12 JANUARY 2009:
Ali SD12 Holmes
In a brilliantly close fight, Muhammad Ali won a split decision over Larry Holmes, thus winning the All Time Heavyweight World Cup. This fight barely resembled their first encounter, and was competitive throughout. It was clear from the outset that Ali had the edge in mobility and speed, which clearly won him the first round. However, Holmes was able to give Ali fits with his jab, landing frequently to Ali's head. By round 5 it is clear that Holmes is winning the battle of the jabs, and Ali changes tactics, and starts leading with his right. Both fighters land frequently, and become swollen all over their faces towards the end of the fight. A hard and fast combination, ending in an uppercut from Ali has Holmes wobbled in the most one-sided round of the fight. By the 12th and final round it seems that Ali may have the edge but Holmes comes on strong, having Ali in a corner and landing flush with a hard straight right seconds before the final bell. The crowd is silent as the scorecards are read out: 115:113..... Holmes, 115:114..... Ali and 115:113 to the winner by split decision and world cup champion..... MUHAMMAD ALI! Ali dances for joy, Holmes shakes his head, clearly believing he had won the fight. The largely pro-Ali crowd is delighted with the decision, and the noise is defeaning as Ali lifts up the golden cup.
Foreman TKO8 Liston
In the end, this fight came down to who wanted it more, and Big George has a big heart. Foreman started well, jabbing strongly and backing Liston up with his sheer strength. In the 2nd, a big, clubbing overhand right from Foreman landed flush on Liston's chin, forcing him to take a knee. Liston recovers well, doing his best to fight at a distance and jabbing hard to the face of Foreman. By the 5th, Foreman is showing signs of tiring, and Liston capitalises by landing consecutive blows to George's face and chin, sending him stumbling to the canvas. Foreman is up at the count of 8, but still a little wobbly as the bell rang. The 6th and 7th rounds were very competitive, with both men tiring and clearly hurt at various stages. 1 minute into the 8th round, Foreman wrestled Liston onto the ropes and landed a powerful left hook to the jaw, followed up by a right uppercut that snapped Liston's head back. Liston crumpled to the canvas, but was up at the count of 4, only to stumble around the ring, leaving the referee no choice but to wave off the fight. Foreman was visibly delighted, and raised his hands to the appreciative crowd.
12 JANUARY 2009:
Ali SD12 Holmes
In a brilliantly close fight, Muhammad Ali won a split decision over Larry Holmes, thus winning the All Time Heavyweight World Cup. This fight barely resembled their first encounter, and was competitive throughout. It was clear from the outset that Ali had the edge in mobility and speed, which clearly won him the first round. However, Holmes was able to give Ali fits with his jab, landing frequently to Ali's head. By round 5 it is clear that Holmes is winning the battle of the jabs, and Ali changes tactics, and starts leading with his right. Both fighters land frequently, and become swollen all over their faces towards the end of the fight. A hard and fast combination, ending in an uppercut from Ali has Holmes wobbled in the most one-sided round of the fight. By the 12th and final round it seems that Ali may have the edge but Holmes comes on strong, having Ali in a corner and landing flush with a hard straight right seconds before the final bell. The crowd is silent as the scorecards are read out: 115:113..... Holmes, 115:114..... Ali and 115:113 to the winner by split decision and world cup champion..... MUHAMMAD ALI! Ali dances for joy, Holmes shakes his head, clearly believing he had won the fight. The largely pro-Ali crowd is delighted with the decision, and the noise is defeaning as Ali lifts up the golden cup.
Foreman TKO8 Liston
In the end, this fight came down to who wanted it more, and Big George has a big heart. Foreman started well, jabbing strongly and backing Liston up with his sheer strength. In the 2nd, a big, clubbing overhand right from Foreman landed flush on Liston's chin, forcing him to take a knee. Liston recovers well, doing his best to fight at a distance and jabbing hard to the face of Foreman. By the 5th, Foreman is showing signs of tiring, and Liston capitalises by landing consecutive blows to George's face and chin, sending him stumbling to the canvas. Foreman is up at the count of 8, but still a little wobbly as the bell rang. The 6th and 7th rounds were very competitive, with both men tiring and clearly hurt at various stages. 1 minute into the 8th round, Foreman wrestled Liston onto the ropes and landed a powerful left hook to the jaw, followed up by a right uppercut that snapped Liston's head back. Liston crumpled to the canvas, but was up at the count of 4, only to stumble around the ring, leaving the referee no choice but to wave off the fight. Foreman was visibly delighted, and raised his hands to the appreciative crowd.