Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 11:56
Eubank..MitchellGlyn Leach wrote:Prior to three of his last four fights, when was he tested? I'm guessing that's what the reference was to
BoxRec
CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Page 6 of 6
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 11:59
Eubank certainly, possibly Mark Delaney, but Mitchell had gone beyond by then - flooring Calzaghe does not make him a better fighter than he actually was at that stage and is possibly more of a reflection on Calzaghe than Mitchell, I'd argue
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:06
Unfortunately, that dramatic turnaround in the second round was somewhat marred by what many deemed a premature, hometown stoppage. The same applies to his stoppage of Sheikha.MightyWarrior wrote:Plenty to criticise in Joe's career, but you can't really say he was never tested. Lacy and Kessler were 50/50 going in, and getting off the canvas to blast out Mitchell was brilliant stuff.DavidPayne wrote:Joe Calzaghe is about to conclude the perfect FW career.
Joe is unblemished, wealthy, unbeaten and largely untested.
Its a hell of a play if you can make it.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:07
It's Calzaghe Syndrome, a fairly common condition. It veers wildly between passionate dislike for the bloke anytime between a month after a fight and a day before one, to passionate support for him during a fight and for a month afterwards.MightyWarrior wrote:Plenty to criticise in Joe's career, but you can't really say he was never tested. Lacy and Kessler were 50/50 going in, and getting off the canvas to blast out Mitchell was brilliant stuff.DavidPayne wrote:Joe Calzaghe is about to conclude the perfect FW career.
Joe is unblemished, wealthy, unbeaten and largely untested.
Its a hell of a play if you can make it.
Pre-Kessler: He's taken us all for a ride and will finally be exposed on Saturday night.
During and immediately post-Kessler: He's Britain's greatest ever!
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:10
Sure, but he still had the punch, and the way Joe came immediately slamming back was a perfect showcase of his fighting heart and absolute refusal to lose. As was the Eubank fight.Glyn Leach wrote:Eubank certainly, possibly Mark Delaney, but Mitchell had gone beyond by then - flooring Calzaghe does not make him a better fighter than he actually was at that stage and is possibly more of a reflection on Calzaghe than Mitchell, I'd argue
Often said Chris was past it, but you only have to check his future fights at cruiserweight to know that not many would have beaten Eubank on that night.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:14
Did a punch make Kabary Salem a test then?
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:16
Well in the sense that it tested Calzaghe's powers of recovery, certainly.
Calzaghe has an inhuman ability to recover from a knockdown, every time he has been knocked down, he has got to his feet almost instantly, and seemed absolutely fine.
Salem hit him with one hell of a shot, and Calzaghe didn't see it coming at all, pretty much the same with Mitchell.
Calzaghe is certainly not the perfect fighting machine, but his chin, heart, and above all his immense resolve are beyond question. Lesser men would have buckled against Eubank in their first big shot at the big time, Calzaghe, even then had the pride of a champion.
Calzaghe has an inhuman ability to recover from a knockdown, every time he has been knocked down, he has got to his feet almost instantly, and seemed absolutely fine.
Salem hit him with one hell of a shot, and Calzaghe didn't see it coming at all, pretty much the same with Mitchell.
Calzaghe is certainly not the perfect fighting machine, but his chin, heart, and above all his immense resolve are beyond question. Lesser men would have buckled against Eubank in their first big shot at the big time, Calzaghe, even then had the pride of a champion.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:25
No question about Eubank, I acknowledged that, but I was talking pre Lacy and Kessler ... obviously every fight will present some form of problem (one would hope!), but that in itself needn't constitute a genuine test - Salem was never thought to be a test before their fight and nor was he in there fight, barring one punch. That, to me, does not qualify him as a fighter who was brought in to test Calazghe and again says more about Calzaghe (specifically his openness to right hands) than it did about Salem
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:33
It was a top 10 of the last 15 years..... I would say Joe lies in the top 15.Coco wrote:Out of interest who was ur top 15?
No order
DLH, Hopkins, RJJ, Holyfield, Lopez, Whittikar, Barrera, Mosley, Trinidad, Mayweather.
There is Winky, Morales, Tszyu, Hill, Alvarez, Mark Johnson, Lewis, Chavez, Pacquiao - all with as much claims as Joe who haven't made the ten.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 12:57
Chris was well weight drained, even a young Joe was always going to be a different proposition to Mark Prince. Maybe it was Joe's great skill set that made Eubank look faded - or maybe it was Carl Thompson being slower, or maybe because Eubank had a better preperation... or maybe a combination of the three.MightyWarrior wrote:
Sure, but he still had the punch, and the way Joe came immediately slamming back was a perfect showcase of his fighting heart and absolute refusal to lose. As was the Eubank fight.
Often said Chris was past it, but you only have to check his future fights at cruiserweight to know that not many would have beaten Eubank on that night.
However, I don't think a week is a long enough prep time for Eubank - and I always gave Eubank more of a chance should there have been a rematch.
Question marks over Mitchell's punch resistance were raised long before the Calzaghe fight and Ottke did an equally impressive number on him (in a different way)- despite the rediculous official Split Decision scoring.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 13:17
The most questionable factor is...how shall I put it...how much the WBO were perhaps lenient to Joe by not throwing many tough challengers at him.
We've seen guys suddenly get rated in the WBO rankings when they...etc.
From the beginning, the WBO have accommodated those who will have them: hence the Eubank-Watson II fight where neither had fought at super middle before but fought for the vacant title.
How many mandatories did Joe make? I can think of 2. And both were the same guy, Mario Veit.
OK, Joe beat some WBO#2 or 3 guys like Woodhall & maybe Sheika. And there was Mgrtchian. But you all know what I mean.
Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
Also, I know most fighters don't want to come over here & fight an unbeaten world title holder. Markussen, Echols, Pemberton, etc, didn't wan to know. So why wasn't a bigger effort made to beckon the big name opponents? Why wait 10 years for the big fights? OK Joe delivered in 2 of 3 of them but what was he playing at before that?
We've seen guys suddenly get rated in the WBO rankings when they...etc.
From the beginning, the WBO have accommodated those who will have them: hence the Eubank-Watson II fight where neither had fought at super middle before but fought for the vacant title.
How many mandatories did Joe make? I can think of 2. And both were the same guy, Mario Veit.
OK, Joe beat some WBO#2 or 3 guys like Woodhall & maybe Sheika. And there was Mgrtchian. But you all know what I mean.
Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
Also, I know most fighters don't want to come over here & fight an unbeaten world title holder. Markussen, Echols, Pemberton, etc, didn't wan to know. So why wasn't a bigger effort made to beckon the big name opponents? Why wait 10 years for the big fights? OK Joe delivered in 2 of 3 of them but what was he playing at before that?
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 13:51
MightyWarrior wrote:Plenty to criticise in Joe's career, but you can't really say he was never tested. Lacy and Kessler were 50/50 going in, and getting off the canvas to blast out Mitchell was brilliant stuff.DavidPayne wrote:Joe Calzaghe is about to conclude the perfect FW career.
Joe is unblemished, wealthy, unbeaten and largely untested.
Its a hell of a play if you can make it.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 14:10
Autobarn wrote:Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
Maybe not, but maybe yes. That is the unfortunate result of multiple sanctioning bodies, even allowing for the difference between the WBC and WBO. Look at Pongsaklek Wonjongkam - 15 defences, I think, of the WBC, and flyweight during his reign was stronger than super-middle during Calzaghe's reign, P4P. His longevity is not because Pongsaklek is/was better than Joe, but because he was largely matched safely too - and from the WBC rankings.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 14:17
Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
To be honest I think he could have, I mean lets not forget Super Middle hasn't exactly been overflowing with talent during Joes reign has it?
To be honest I think he could have, I mean lets not forget Super Middle hasn't exactly been overflowing with talent during Joes reign has it?
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 14:49
Unfortunately Banjo it is a could have and not a he did.
Love him or hate him, Ottke was Joe's natural rival - and to say Ottke wouldn't have stood a chance I think is being harsh on the German. 2 common opponent said it was tough to call a potential fight - Robin Reid did heavily tip Joe.... but this was said directly after a fight in which he felt he was shafted. Starie and Mitchell both said it would be a clash of style that would be tough to call.
Love him or hate him, Ottke was Joe's natural rival - and to say Ottke wouldn't have stood a chance I think is being harsh on the German. 2 common opponent said it was tough to call a potential fight - Robin Reid did heavily tip Joe.... but this was said directly after a fight in which he felt he was shafted. Starie and Mitchell both said it would be a clash of style that would be tough to call.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 16:52
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... 335797.ece
Not the best paper but the Sun think the Jones fight will be September 20th.
Not the best paper but the Sun think the Jones fight will be September 20th.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 18:33
Oi GLYN!!Glyn Leach wrote:Prior to three of his last four fights, when was he tested? I'm guessing that's what the reference was to
Whats going on!
DG sent in his direct debit thing 10 days ago and NOW I receive a lette saying I would have got my July edtion by now if I subscribed! I HAVE renewed!
Plus - where is my t-shirt?
Hopefully I get the July edition very soon!
BTW - Gwann Calzaghe!
Poor Fwank!
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 26 Jun 2008, 21:37
And, according to that article, promoted by Golden Boy. Looks like Calzaghe is to be self-managed, but not self-promoted.Max Molyneux wrote:http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... 335797.ece
Not the best paper but the Sun think the Jones fight will be September 20th.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 04:18
He waited far too long to unify the titles in my opinion.
Maybe that was down to politics but maybe he didn't fancy his chances against the mighty Sven!
Maybe that was down to politics but maybe he didn't fancy his chances against the mighty Sven!
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 04:46
true, any sanctioning body can be lenient. In Sulaiman's case, he said it was something to do with helping the economy in Thailand (re Pongsaklek). I will rephrase, could Joe have defended a belt 20+ times if the WBO organisation pushed more quality title defences and refused to sanction lesser fights?oliverfennell wrote:Autobarn wrote:Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
Maybe not, but maybe yes. That is the unfortunate result of multiple sanctioning bodies, even allowing for the difference between the WBC and WBO. Look at Pongsaklek Wonjongkam - 15 defences, I think, of the WBC, and flyweight during his reign was stronger than super-middle during Calzaghe's reign, P4P. His longevity is not because Pongsaklek is/was better than Joe, but because he was largely matched safely too - and from the WBC rankings.
IMO Joe would have had more fights, more wear, and wouldn't have been able to have the late career success (he would already have had it, or lost by then). Or if the WBO refused to sanction a lot of the mismatches, then Joe would definitely have made less defences!
Nothing looks worst to me than this: Calzaghe and Sven making 20 whatever title defences, at the same weight, in the same era. This is a massive oversight from both men. Surely if you're a proud champ, you don't allow this to happen.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 05:11
Autobarn wrote:true, any sanctioning body can be lenient. In Sulaiman's case, he said it was something to do with helping the economy in Thailand (re Pongsaklek). I will rephrase, could Joe have defended a belt 20+ times if the WBO organisation pushed more quality title defences and refused to sanction lesser fights?oliverfennell wrote:Autobarn wrote:Could Joe have defended a WBC title 20 whatever times?
Maybe not, but maybe yes. That is the unfortunate result of multiple sanctioning bodies, even allowing for the difference between the WBC and WBO. Look at Pongsaklek Wonjongkam - 15 defences, I think, of the WBC, and flyweight during his reign was stronger than super-middle during Calzaghe's reign, P4P. His longevity is not because Pongsaklek is/was better than Joe, but because he was largely matched safely too - and from the WBC rankings.
IMO Joe would have had more fights, more wear, and wouldn't have been able to have the late career success (he would already have had it, or lost by then). Or if the WBO refused to sanction a lot of the mismatches, then Joe would definitely have made less defences!
Nothing looks worst to me than this: Calzaghe and Sven making 20 whatever title defences, at the same weight, in the same era. This is a massive oversight from both men. Surely if you're a proud champ, you don't allow this to happen.
Wasn't there a story going around recently that Ottke and Michalczewski were coming out of retirement to fight each other? Maybe they can join Joe, Roy et al. on the seniors tour - so Joe and Sven could still happen. Never say never! LOL.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 14:54
Apologies to GL!
DG has his July edition and a nice new T Shirt!
Boxing monthly in the house!
DG has his July edition and a nice new T Shirt!
Boxing monthly in the house!
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 19:50
Hope that never happens.chesh wrote:
Wasn't there a story going around recently that Ottke and Michalczewski were coming out of retirement to fight each other? Maybe they can join Joe, Roy et al. on the seniors tour - so Joe and Sven could still happen. Never say never! LOL.
Too many seniors tour stuff already with Mosley and DLH like fighters still fighting.
Re: CALZAGHE SPLITS WITH WARREN!!!!!NEVER!!!
Posted: 27 Jun 2008, 20:17
I heard that it was planned (apparently Ottke's ex-wife took him to the cleaners in the divorce) but strangely cancelled due to lack of demand. I would have thought the Germans would have flocked to that as a night out due to the fame of the boxers. The lack of anything interesting happening in the ring doesn't seem to come into it.chesh wrote:
Wasn't there a story going around recently that Ottke and Michalczewski were coming out of retirement to fight each other? Maybe they can join Joe, Roy et al. on the seniors tour - so Joe and Sven could still happen. Never say never! LOL.