BoxRec

Again it depends on your definition of world class.

Harrison and Skelton are both a league away from world-class, but Skelton has fought for the world-title too and their records stand comparison with some of the fighters that earned others title shots. The likes of Ray Austin, Tony Thompson, Monte Barrett etc are no better than Skelton really, in terms of standing are they?

Like I say his resume is patchy but I tried to justify his consideration as a world-level fighter in the post above.

He's in on account that so many of his more revered contemporaries are not greater talents IMO.

They have arguably delivered more in key bouts but pound for pound ability I wouldn't believe the likes of Barrett, McCline or Brewster would embarrass Danny at his 240lb best.

However, strong evidence of ebbing motivation and appliance of any strategy on Friday. And an over reliance on guts and strength.

Fair enough. Who knows what Williams could have achieved if he'd lived the life and kept his weight down his whole career. As it stands he has wasted away any potential he had with bad training habits and a pisspoor diet.

boxrec wrote:Who would win now, Williams or Kevin Mcbride?

Who would give a flying F*ck

Is/was Danny Williams world class?

It seems people shift their own goalposts with each fight, which I guess is understandable given how erratic he has been.

But suddenly everybody is saying no, he's NEVER been better than domestic class, but I suspect a lot of that is due to the freshest thing in their memory being him struggling with McDermott. As I said earlier, this is unfair considering Danny's age and career stage.

But I clearly remember a significant body of opinion picking him to beat Vitali Klitschko. Maybe the Tyson win flattered him and we all went a bit overboard, but you can't say the guy has NEVER been world class when so many of you were once picking him to beat the world champ!

Of course he doesn't have many results to back up claims of him being world class, and those who argue in his favour point to his potential rather than his achievements, but if we only end up remembering him for one result (the Tyson win) then consider this: Tyson WAS a top 10-ranked fighter at the time. Many serious, knowledgeable people were talking about him regaining the world title in Lennox's absence. That was obviously folly, we can say that now, but Tyson also DID perform better vs Danny than he did vs Lennox! In fact, he looked better than he had for years, but Danny still got the job done.

Somebody else said "yeah, but it still took him 20-something punches to put Tyson down, so Danny didn't have world class power". Tell me, when did ANYBODY take Tyson out with one or two shots? Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis all had to beat him down for rounds and rounds and rounds before he fell.

Danny is absolutely on the brink of a career-ending defeat right now. He's still got a good punch, but he's slow of hand and foot, has poor defence and his punch resistance is virtually nil. Of course he's not world class NOW, but he was once, even if it was only for one night. Go back and watch the video.

And don't come back at me with the "Tyson's leg snapped clean in half in the second round", you guys are not American!

oliverfennell wrote:Is/was Danny Williams world class?

It seems people shift their own goalposts with each fight, which I guess is understandable given how erratic he has been.

But suddenly everybody is saying no, he's NEVER been better than domestic class, but I suspect a lot of that is due to the freshest thing in their memory being him struggling with McDermott. As I said earlier, this is unfair considering Danny's age and career stage.

But I clearly remember a significant body of opinion picking him to beat Vitali Klitschko. Maybe the Tyson win flattered him and we all went a bit overboard, but you can't say the guy has NEVER been world class when so many of you were once picking him to beat the world champ!

Of course he doesn't have many results to back up claims of him being world class, and those who argue in his favour point to his potential rather than his achievements, but if we only end up remembering him for one result (the Tyson win) then consider this: Tyson WAS a top 10-ranked fighter at the time. Many serious, knowledgeable people were talking about him regaining the world title in Lennox's absence. That was obviously folly, we can say that now, but Tyson also DID perform better vs Danny than he did vs Lennox! In fact, he looked better than he had for years, but Danny still got the job done.

Somebody else said "yeah, but it still took him 20-something punches to put Tyson down, so Danny didn't have world class power". Tell me, when did ANYBODY take Tyson out with one or two shots? Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis all had to beat him down for rounds and rounds and rounds before he fell.

Danny is absolutely on the brink of a career-ending defeat right now. He's still got a good punch, but he's slow of hand and foot, has poor defence and his punch resistance is virtually nil. Of course he's not world class NOW, but he was once, even if it was only for one night. Go back and watch the video.

And don't come back at me with the "Tyson's leg snapped clean in half in the second round", you guys are not American!

if the top 20 say can be considered world class...then danny is and has been on the frindges at least for years

he definately has a punchers chance on his night

the frustrating thing is that if Danny had got a crack at Brewster instead of ,say, his 1 round victim Meehan...i think danny would have beaten him

I really doubt that, Brewster had a great chin and could really crack back.

The thing with Danny is that he has great heart and has shown flashes of true world class with his power, speed & technique before dropping back to his usual standard. It seems that when he turns it on like he did finishing off Meehan or Tyson or Mirovic or Gammer that he could compete at top world class.

So people feel that he's obviously capable but not consistent and consequently an underachiever.

I thought Gammer would beat him, mainly due to Williams recent form, but for the first time in years he turned up in decent shape.
Why does he not do that more often? Was he that scared about Gammer??
In that shape he is a match for most in this depleted division

oliverfennell wrote:Is/was Danny Williams world class?

It seems people shift their own goalposts with each fight, which I guess is understandable given how erratic he has been.

But suddenly everybody is saying no, he's NEVER been better than domestic class, but I suspect a lot of that is due to the freshest thing in their memory being him struggling with McDermott. As I said earlier, this is unfair considering Danny's age and career stage.

But I clearly remember a significant body of opinion picking him to beat Vitali Klitschko. Maybe the Tyson win flattered him and we all went a bit overboard, but you can't say the guy has NEVER been world class when so many of you were once picking him to beat the world champ!

Of course he doesn't have many results to back up claims of him being world class, and those who argue in his favour point to his potential rather than his achievements, but if we only end up remembering him for one result (the Tyson win) then consider this: Tyson WAS a top 10-ranked fighter at the time. Many serious, knowledgeable people were talking about him regaining the world title in Lennox's absence. That was obviously folly, we can say that now, but Tyson also DID perform better vs Danny than he did vs Lennox! In fact, he looked better than he had for years, but Danny still got the job done.

Somebody else said "yeah, but it still took him 20-something punches to put Tyson down, so Danny didn't have world class power". Tell me, when did ANYBODY take Tyson out with one or two shots? Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis all had to beat him down for rounds and rounds and rounds before he fell.

Danny is absolutely on the brink of a career-ending defeat right now. He's still got a good punch, but he's slow of hand and foot, has poor defence and his punch resistance is virtually nil. Of course he's not world class NOW, but he was once, even if it was only for one night. Go back and watch the video.

And don't come back at me with the "Tyson's leg snapped clean in half in the second round", you guys are not American!

So you're basing Williams and his world class abilities purely on the Tyson showing.

Personally, I can't ride with that view - I've re-watched the Tyson/Williams fight (its on youtube) - What I saw was Williams doing what he is doing now, and that was riding out a crisis and then winning the fight. Personally I think it's clear to see that Tyson was running on empty, and was there for the taking. I think most heavys would have finished Tyson of when he was in that state.

I won't mention the Klitshcko fight (oops)

Seriously though, we have to remember the bad nights before Tyson, where he clearly lost to domestic level fighters and also euro level fighters - You shouldn't avoid adding those disasters into your arguement, otherwise it's a purely biased statement you are making.

If we are talking potential ability, then I agree Williams is there or there abouts, but we can say that about a lot of fighters - Richard Williams springs to my mind.

On a side note, as a human being I think very highly of Williams, he made a long trip to one of the amateur club's near where I live, and he was a real star, making a lot of time for everyone at the the club (this was pre-tyson)

I'm just as much frustrated about Williams as the next man - I think many of us could argue all day about his actual ability rather than his perceived ability.

I just used the Tyson fight as the obvious example. Most of Danny's defeats and/or poor performances were due to mental state and poor preparation. When fit and focused, we know what he can do. There are only really two defeats on Williams' record where you feel he was definitely beaten by the better man on the night (Klitschko and Sam) rather than additional factors.

As I said, Tyson was a top 10 heavyweight at the time, and only two fights previously (vs Lewis) he was considered by many to be the number two heavyweight. Skelton, Meehan and Audley were also, on paper at least, world class wins.

Personally I think it's clear to see that Tyson was running on empty, and was there for the taking. I think most heavys would have finished Tyson of when he was in that state.

Maybe they too would have finished him in the fourth, but just as many wouldn't have made it out of rounds one or two on that night.

Williams has world class handspeed and puts his punches together very well but he has
slow feet and always has - the reason he lost to Klitsckho and Sam was because he
could not get out of the way - if you had Williams top half and Pele Reids bottom half
(for example) you havee an excellent heavyweight.

And I don't think anyone is giving the big John enough credit here - he fought well
if you base his performance on the prior predictions of most boxrec posters who fought
he would be out of the ring by the third!

McDermott has beaten some good fighters and would beat Martin Rogan - a heavyweight
prospect people have been raving on about.

I totally agree. Danny's movement has always been slothful, which is why he was hammered in his biggest fights.

He used to have very nice handspeed and combination punching, but the combination of losing some of that speed, and his poor balance mean he cannot put them together very well any more, which has turned him into a big static punchbag with power (even this seems to be declining) and tremendous heart.

oliverfennell wrote:I just used the Tyson fight as the obvious example. Most of Danny's defeats and/or poor performances were due to mental state and poor preparation. When fit and focused, we know what he can do. There are only really two defeats on Williams' record where you feel he was definitely beaten by the better man on the night (Klitschko and Sam) rather than additional factors.

As I said, Tyson was a top 10 heavyweight at the time, and only two fights previously (vs Lewis) he was considered by many to be the number two heavyweight. Skelton, Meehan and Audley were also, on paper at least, world class wins.

Personally I think it's clear to see that Tyson was running on empty, and was there for the taking. I think most heavys would have finished Tyson of when he was in that state.

Maybe they too would have finished him in the fourth, but just as many wouldn't have made it out of rounds one or two on that night.

Tyson was not a top 10 Heavyweight at the time - absolute nonsense.

I think before the fight Tyson was a top 10 heavy, atleast at the end of his previous fight before Danny (but that was 18 months before)

However in hindsight, he may well of not of been a top 10 heavy, but that's easy to say now.

He may have been ranked top 10, but he couldn't fight for more than 2-3 rounds. Not a top 10 fighter in reality.

Anyone who thinks Williams didn't have the potential to be world class didn't see him when he was 18.

I was never an avid follower of Danny, but I could see there was much about him that could lead to a step up. The Sam fight, for me, was that step up and he fell short miserably. Whatever he did since has been a dividing line - gatekeeper and/or occasional opponent of other prospectve world class opponents. Tyson doesn't enter the equation by the time they met.

Thing about him is. You cant help liking him. Affable and enjoys a joke at his own expense. Which is why I will always follow his progress.

I'd like him to get another shot but worry for him if he does. He looked past his best Friday.

Danny comes across as a great guy.

With the McDermott fight I have trouble reconciling my opinions with those on here about who should have won. I didn't score the fight RBR but I saw enough movement from John that offset the bombs that Danny tried to throw, whilst John landed with ineffective shots. He moved and swivelled away from punches, landed and tied up. Danny had 3 points deducted, rightly or wrongly, and I thought the result was cut and dry.

Maelstrom wrote:Anyone who thinks Williams didn't have the potential to be world class didn't see him when he was 18.

No one is saying he did'nt have potential at 18 it's just that he wasted it & never reached the heights he should have
to much Mr kipling I think. the heavyweights that really train hard are very few they come in heavy & say "yeah I'm really strong at this weight" what they mean is I can't be bothered to do the road work,at least Haye looks like he does his

DavidPayne wrote:

Shirow wrote:I was at the fight (unfortunately as it turned out) so i didn't get any of the commentary or post fight interviews. Was there something wrong with Danny's right? I counted 3 shots thrown with it from the 6th round on.

Also as i tried to keep my eyes open it occurred to me that Danny only fights back these days. In all of his fights since the world title shot (+ Mirovic before) that i have seen/can think of he seems to wait until he is hit before throwing anything with any meaning. Against pie boy he was kept waiting quite a lot.

I hope he retires. He can rematch as even if he loses he won't get badly hurt but i can't imagine many watching.

I think you were sitting close to us, I was with Mike L.

Anyhow. I found the bout, perversly perhaps, entertaining, perhaps absorbing would be better.

Yeah that was me, Mike should have introduced us.

I still think Danny would have a shot against the likes of Peter and Chagaev - but only if he took what he seems to perceive to be a massive risk and actually came it at around 17st instead of nearly. He has the bombs - and with a bit less flab and a bit more conditioning, could be good enough to use them.

He won the McDermott fight clearly enough for me - even with the three bonus points I only had Fat John winning two rounds.

Shirow wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:

Shirow wrote:I was at the fight (unfortunately as it turned out) so i didn't get any of the commentary or post fight interviews. Was there something wrong with Danny's right? I counted 3 shots thrown with it from the 6th round on.

Also as i tried to keep my eyes open it occurred to me that Danny only fights back these days. In all of his fights since the world title shot (+ Mirovic before) that i have seen/can think of he seems to wait until he is hit before throwing anything with any meaning. Against pie boy he was kept waiting quite a lot.

I hope he retires. He can rematch as even if he loses he won't get badly hurt but i can't imagine many watching.

I think you were sitting close to us, I was with Mike L.

Anyhow. I found the bout, perversly perhaps, entertaining, perhaps absorbing would be better.

Yeah that was me, Mike should have introduced us.

No worries, maybe next time.

Maelstrom wrote:Anyone who thinks Williams didn't have the potential to be world class didn't see him when he was 18.

Which is what? 99.99999% of the population

what exactly is worldclass.

challenging for the 4 titles ? in which case skelton/liakovich and peter okhello are world class?

a top ten ring rating which wouldnt include a string of decent fighters?

top 20 ?

is for example Kali Meehan world class ? u know where im going here