BoxRec

MightyWarrior wrote:Oscar comes over as such a phoney, that it's hard to believe anything he says really. His pounding the canvas just looked a little too "theatrical"...protesting a bit too much if you like.
You sometimes see "opponents" doing a similar thing, after a TKO, just to show they're REALLY hurt, in case anyone was doubting.

Obviously a lot of boxers thought the same thing too, and it's not often you get people saying things like that about such a top level fighter.

Impossible to prove either way of course, so better leave it at that.

Indeed Warrior, can go round and round in circles on this one

Glyn Leach wrote:

stujones wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote:
And where did I say he was bigger than Vargas and Castillejo? Don't think I've even mentioned them.

You said the only fighters he was smaller than was Hopkins and Sturm.

Trinidad and Quartey were boiled down Light Middles, just as DLH was a boiled down Lightweight when fighting at 9stone 4.

Re: The Phantom Punch I don't know, no I have never seen that reaction, but then its not often TV cameras are still on the fighter 30 seconds after the fight is over which is when he started the "Ronaldo" routine and the hitting the canvas. I've seen people roll from side to their back when they are hurt from a body shot (which is all Oscar did in the count) - seen people crawl also during a count (really out of breath), Oscar did that before the canvas hitting also - but I haven't seen anyone hit the canvas.

Hopkins and Sturm were middleweight champions, that's the point - most fighters are boiled down. And don't tell me Tito was a middleweight too, because he was blown up. Vargas was a light-middle champ, he fought above 160lbs twice in his entire career, after he fought Oscar, and Castillejo fought at 160lbs tops, three times, again after he fought Oscar. Where is their natural weight advantage? They fought plenty of non title fights. They were light-middles.

Most fighters are boided down, except those who are moving up the weights. Is Pacquiao a boiled down Light Middle now?... no... Oscar is NOW, hence why he was dead at 147 (well that or age).

Quartey are Trinidad were career long Welters, starving themselves to make 147 - hense the view point that they were not (especially Trinidad) at their strongest against DLH. DLH wasn't in 1999 - This was the opinion of Watt and Darke also.

Similar scenerio with Castilejo and Vargas. Castilejo has fought at least 8 times at Middleweight, 6 or 7 title fights and Vargas (has fought 3 times) it was also well documented had to boil himself down to make the weight. Did DLH have to do this in 2001/2002 - no. Hence the calls from Messers Darke and Watt again that DLH is a blown up Welter when he took on Sturm and Hopkins - "this is to far, he is not even a big light middle" was the comments (or something similar) of Darke in the Sturm fight. Its only I think since his middleweight run that he has become a strong 154 fighter.

Technically they were the same weight, but then so was Mayweather, Forbes, Pacquiao etc etc.

To conclude. Oscar is to boxing what a benefit chest is to the social security. A drain and a tosser taking money out of more deserving pockets. Bloody canvas pounding fraud.

To conclude. Oscar is to boxing what a benefit cheat is to the social security. A drain and a tosser taking money out of more deserving pockets. Bloody canvas pounding fraud.

Glyn Leach wrote:Oscar grew comfortably through the divisions, I'd argue, until he went too far, which was middleweight. Unlike Hatton, Oscar has been able to do so.

And Tzsyu vs Hatton was not Oscar vs Hopkins, with all that histrionic floor pounding.

As for 'there are no signals', OK mate, you obviously know your stuff pmsl.

.

oh come on, you're just sore because you kept banging on in the mag about how dlh v pac man was a dangerous mismatch, should never have been made and even alluding to the theory that pac man may get killed

so now pac man wins and you think oscar had some secret signal to pull out of the fight - pure fantasy

a weight drained, old fighter looks completely flat in the first six rounds of a fight he was favourite to win. he takes big shots in the seventh and is nearly knocked out. goes out for the eighth and takes more of the same. no need for any secret handshakes under the ring stool to get out - it's a no-brainer for all involved.

when hatton starts getting hammered by pac man, i'm sure all the dlh haters will be screaming for the corner to pull him out

stujones wrote:

lowersmiths wrote: dlh v hopkins - i don't remember tszyu getting the same treatment after hatton made him quit, but then we were all frothing at the mouth at how the WBU kid had finally come good, weren't we.

no need for secret signals. oscar's body language and response to the doctor's questions were enough for those in control to see he wasn't able to carry on. it's not rocket science pal.

Yep, and the ref saying - you get caught one more time on the ropes and I am stopping the fight.

I gave Oscar a big chance against Hopkins, he didn't fight how I thought he would - he tried to take it to Hopkins which was the wrong tactics. I wanted him to see him like vs Hernandez or Chavez 1. But he tried to take it to Hopkins, untill Hopkins strength told. I thought it was a commendable effort.

And I think it was an oscar winning performance if that was a "dive" - he was down for minutes. Fighters who have lost the heart don't do that - they usually get up on 10 and try and leave the arena ASAP.

you'll never convince the haters - they only want to tear down things for the sake of it. if dlh had really quit against hopkins i doubt he would ever have set foot in a boxing ring again. it's not as though he needed to anyway.

lowersmiths wrote: you'll never convince the haters - they only want to tear down things for the sake of it. if dlh had really quit against hopkins i doubt he would ever have set foot in a boxing ring again. it's not as though he needed to anyway.

I don't hate Oscar at all, just because I don't join in and sing his praises doesn't mean I hate the man. Be a bit dull if we all areed on everything.

Oscar's in a similar class to Mayweather, neither really care about the sport.

banjo wrote:Oscar's in a similar class to Mayweather, neither really care about the sport.

But at least PBF can fight.

Oscar should sell Art - he likes to pound the canvas.

Oscar should fight Ivan Calderon next!

He would most likley quit in that also.

DG. wrote:

banjo wrote:Oscar's in a similar class to Mayweather, neither really care about the sport.

But at least PBF can fight.

Oscar should sell Art - he likes to pound the canvas.

Oscar should fight Ivan Calderon next!

He would most likley quit in that also.

So Oscar cannot fight - because he lost to Hopkins, and got battered by Pacman at the age of 35, after coming down to his lowest weight in seven years.

Absolutely ludicrous.

I find it hard to understand all this stuff about DLH, sure some guys were smaller, some were past their best, some fights he got lucky decisions but the fact is before he took 20 months out of the sport he fought virtually everyone, he didn't always win but at least he fought them. As for the "pounding the canvas" why don't you go and ask Hopkins to hit you like that and see what it feels like.

banjo wrote:I find it hard to understand all this stuff about DLH, sure some guys were smaller, some were past their best, some fights he got lucky decisions but the fact is before he took 20 months out of the sport he fought virtually everyone, he didn't always win but at least he fought them. As for the "pounding the canvas" why don't you go and ask Hopkins to hit you like that and see what it feels like.

People also seem to be forgetting how close run a thing his fight with Floyd was - hardly the mark of a man who cannot fight.

Oscar should probably have quite at 154 - the move to 160 was definetly not successful - and to then try to get back down to 147 at his age was ridiculous.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

banjo wrote:Oscar's in a similar class to Mayweather, neither really care about the sport.

But at least PBF can fight.

Oscar should sell Art - he likes to pound the canvas.

Oscar should fight Ivan Calderon next!

He would most likley quit in that also.

So Oscar cannot fight - because he lost to Hopkins, and got battered by Pacman at the age of 35, after coming down to his lowest weight in seven years.

Absolutely ludicrous.

This version of DLH can not really engage in 50/50 fights - that is what I mean by at least PBF can fight!

His surender against Hopkins was not good.

banjo wrote:I find it hard to understand all this stuff about DLH, sure some guys were smaller, some were past their best, some fights he got lucky decisions but the fact is before he took 20 months out of the sport he fought virtually everyone, he didn't always win but at least he fought them. As for the "pounding the canvas" why don't you go and ask Hopkins to hit you like that and see what it feels like.

I will never be convinced that DLH did not bail out at the first sign on trouble against B-Hop.

IMO he has quit twice.

Once on his stool andf the other pounding the canvas.

He does not exactlygo out on his shield.

So what about in 4-5 years time if Floud is still fighting? Oscar is clearly past his prime at this point in time.

I would argue that most fighters would already have been knocked down or out against Pacman already - DLH has always been tough and blessed with a good chin - he took a right battering and didn't go down - should he have continued until he was battered into unconsciousness, or had himself beaten into a coma.

It was clearly hopeless for DLH - he had nothing left in the tank whatsoever - he was running on empty - and despite trying to rally - he just couldn't make an impression.

I have no problem with a fighter calling it a day if there is clearly nothing left.

You could argue that Kostya Tszyu's effort was worse - he still seemed to be in the fight up until that point and competive - he clearly seemed to quite to avoid being stopped, whereas Oscar had already been beaten senseless by that point.

DG. wrote:

banjo wrote:I find it hard to understand all this stuff about DLH, sure some guys were smaller, some were past their best, some fights he got lucky decisions but the fact is before he took 20 months out of the sport he fought virtually everyone, he didn't always win but at least he fought them. As for the "pounding the canvas" why don't you go and ask Hopkins to hit you like that and see what it feels like.

I will never be convinced that DLH did not bail out at the first sign on trouble against B-Hop.

IMO he has quit twice.

Once on his stool andf the other pounding the canvas.

He does not exactlygo out on his shield.

You have no clear evidence either, other than your own opinion.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

banjo wrote:I find it hard to understand all this stuff about DLH, sure some guys were smaller, some were past their best, some fights he got lucky decisions but the fact is before he took 20 months out of the sport he fought virtually everyone, he didn't always win but at least he fought them. As for the "pounding the canvas" why don't you go and ask Hopkins to hit you like that and see what it feels like.

I will never be convinced that DLH did not bail out at the first sign on trouble against B-Hop.

IMO he has quit twice.Once on his stool andf the other pounding the canvas.

He does not exactlygo out on his shield.

You have no clear evidence either, other than your own opinion.

The fact is - he could have continued. Lesser knownb fighter have gone out on theoir sheild and sme better known!

Remember Tyson against Lewis?

Tyson had 5 rounds of pure hell but DID NOT QUIT.

Oscar was felled by a body shot - they are much harder to recover from, if you have your breath taken out of you a shot to the short ribs, it is virtually impossible to give up.

Tyson quit against both Williams and McBride.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oscar was felled by a body shot - they are much harder to recover from, if you have your breath taken out of you a shot to the short ribs, it is virtually impossible to give up.

Tyson quit against both Williams and McBride.

You have no clear evidence either, other than your own opinion.

What's good for the goose is good for the Gander mate.

In your opinion DLH quit, whilst Tyson showed balls of steel, my opinion if anything is probably the reverse.

Tyson couldn't be fekked to get up against Williams or McBridge, earlier in his career he took far worse pastings from Lennox, Douglas and Holyfield before he went down.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:What's good for the goose is good for the Gander mate.

In your opinion DLH quit, whilst Tyson showed balls of steel, my opinion if anything is probably the reverse.

Tyson couldn't be fekked to get up against Williams or McBridge, earlier in his career he took far worse pastings from Lennox, Douglas and Holyfield before he went down.

Well that shows TYSON HAS taken his beatings like a man at some stage in his career.

Has Oscar?

I have seen him in real trouble 3 times.

Trinidad... SoHe ran like a Wolf!
Hopkins.... He deserves an Oscar for that performance!
Pacman.... He bailed out on his stool.

I know Quartey had him down but Oscar just backpedalled until his head was clear.

Oscar lost at least 7 of the 8 completed rounds - the last one was 10-8 on all of the cards (how many rounds did Tyson lose 10-8). Pacquiao didn't have the lights out power to KO Oscar, but the fight was only going to go on for another 30 seconds cause the ref said he is stopping it.

So Oscar back peddled untill his head cleared vs Quartey - I know, lets all hail Khan's performance vs Prescott! Oscar was also stunned against Mayorga, Mosley 2 and even Floyd flummuxed him - where was the quit then.

The Doctor was very concerned at Oscar's health against Pacquiao - actually mentioned before by Margret Goodman - asking if he had headaches and stuff, the corner wanted him out of there, and the ref said "are you okay to continue, cause one more time you are on the robes I am stopping it".

Shall we say McCullough quit vs Larios - you can definately say he quit in his last fight.

As I said, shall we call Ali a quitter also?

Oh yes - Roberto Duran?

Oscar quit at the first sign of trouble vs Hopkins? Have you seen the fight - Oscar won on my card the first 4, but lost the last 4 and was losing each round gradually worst. So where was the 5th round KO?

stujones wrote:Oscar lost at least 7 of the 8 completed rounds - the last one was 10-8 on all of the cards (how many rounds did Tyson lose 10-8). Pacquiao didn't have the lights out power to KO Oscar, but the fight was only going to go on for another 30 seconds cause the ref said he is stopping it.

So Oscar back peddled untill his head cleared vs Quartey - I know, lets all hail Khan's performance vs Prescott! Oscar was also stunned against Mayorga, Mosley 2 and even Floyd flummuxed him - where was the quit then.

The Doctor was very concerned at Oscar's health against Pacquiao - actually mentioned before by Margret Goodman - asking if he had headaches and stuff, the corner wanted him out of there, and the ref said "are you okay to continue, cause one more time you are on the robes I am stopping it".

Shall we say McCullough quit vs Larios - you can definately say he quit in his last fight.

As I said, shall we call Ali a quitter also?

Oh yes - Roberto Duran?

Oscar quit at the first sign of trouble vs Hopkins? Have you seen the fight - Oscar won on my card the first 4, but lost the last 4 and was losing each round gradually worst. So where was the 5th round KO?

The rounds were more even and then DLH thought 'oh oh' aganst Hppkins.

Oscar was going to get her arse kicked so he found a nice comfy spot to rest on. imo.


Duran? That was as a result of NOT having a fight!

Tyson took his lumos as did Ali - Holyfield andf the best of them.

Oscar?

Ask Amy.

DG:Amy.

Amy: Before you ask - yes! Oscar is Chickarn!

DG. wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:What's good for the goose is good for the Gander mate.

In your opinion DLH quit, whilst Tyson showed balls of steel, my opinion if anything is probably the reverse.

Tyson couldn't be fekked to get up against Williams or McBridge, earlier in his career he took far worse pastings from Lennox, Douglas and Holyfield before he went down.

Well that shows TYSON HAS taken his beatings like a man at some stage in his career.

Has Oscar?

I have seen him in real trouble 3 times.

Tyson v Holyfield 2 - knew he wasn't going to win so bit his ear off!

Oscar v Quartey was a good fight, and Quartey had him hurt...but he still beat him.

Trinidad... SoHe ran like a Wolf!
Hopkins.... He deserves an Oscar for that performance!
Pacman.... He bailed out on his stool.

I know Quartey had him down but Oscar just backpedalled until his head was clear.

Come on Den -

Tyson v Holyfield 2 - knew he wasn't going to win so bit his ear off!

Oscar v Quartey was a good fight, and Quartey had him hurt...but he still beat him.

Oscar is a natural welterweight. He was too big for light welter, FFS. He was beating 130 and 135 pounders so he could pick up titles with weight and height advantage - nearly backfired vs JJ Molina, no? a strong super feaher who didn't fold.

He was fighting guys about his own size in Quartey and Tito. Quartey was ineffective at anything other than welter, IMO (just compare his best fights at 147 to the Vargas fight at 154 - big difference).

Oscar picked on Quartey after he'd seen Quartey downed by JL Lopez, after Quartey had a layoff, and after Quartey was apparently comntemplating retirement, or suffering from some sort of illness.

EDIT - I mean, Oscar is a natural welter, and Quartey, Tito were big welters.