BoxRec

Doc Broadus had taken George Foreman up to Dick Sadler's gym in Heywood CA to spar with Liston just before Foreman
went to Mexico City for the 1968 Olympics.

Controversial wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 02:58 Anyway like others I don't think it's Foreman in that photo anyway and judging by the odd colours and shadows I'm leaning towards it being a photoshopped image.

So you want to fake a photo with Foreman and Liston sparring and you choose a base photo in color with someone who is not Foreman and add a black&white Liston?
It might not be Foreman, but I don't buy the photoshop story.

dont know that it's shopped, it's simply not george

hhaehre wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 20:19

Controversial wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 02:58 Anyway like others I don't think it's Foreman in that photo anyway and judging by the odd colours and shadows I'm leaning towards it being a photoshopped image.

So you want to fake a photo with Foreman and Liston sparring and you choose a base photo in color with someone who is not Foreman and add a black&white Liston?
It might not be Foreman, but I don't buy the photoshop story.

It may well be a genuine photo, I just think the colour of Liston looks odd in comparison to the other fighter. Also check the shadows around the other guy, is he that close to the wall to cast a shadow that dark? I don't know, I'm no photographer. Maybe the photo has just been 'touched up' if it wasn't a particularly great image to start with, colour added, sharpened up etc, either way it looks like somethings been done to it. Does it look un-edited to you? It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

You seem to confuse Getty Images with someone selling an old photo on eBay.

wouter wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:07

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

You seem to confuse Getty Images with someone selling an old photo on eBay.

It's being sold by Getty Images !

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43

hhaehre wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 20:19

Controversial wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 02:58 Anyway like others I don't think it's Foreman in that photo anyway and judging by the odd colours and shadows I'm leaning towards it being a photoshopped image.

So you want to fake a photo with Foreman and Liston sparring and you choose a base photo in color with someone who is not Foreman and add a black&white Liston?
It might not be Foreman, but I don't buy the photoshop story.

It may well be a genuine photo, I just think the colour of Liston looks odd in comparison to the other fighter. Also check the shadows around the other guy, is he that close to the wall to cast a shadow that dark? I don't know, I'm no photographer. Maybe the photo has just been 'touched up' if it wasn't a particularly great image to start with, colour added, sharpened up etc, either way it looks like somethings been done to it. Does it look un-edited to you? It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

I don't think it's edited, Liston is not in black&white and I believe it is Foreman in the photo. The other photo of them moving around in the ring without gloves show them looking exactly the same, same trunks, same background, same shirt on Liston. Is that photo also of someone other than Foreman?

hhaehre wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:45

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43

hhaehre wrote: ↑22 Apr 2021, 20:19
So you want to fake a photo with Foreman and Liston sparring and you choose a base photo in color with someone who is not Foreman and add a black&white Liston?
It might not be Foreman, but I don't buy the photoshop story.

It may well be a genuine photo, I just think the colour of Liston looks odd in comparison to the other fighter. Also check the shadows around the other guy, is he that close to the wall to cast a shadow that dark? I don't know, I'm no photographer. Maybe the photo has just been 'touched up' if it wasn't a particularly great image to start with, colour added, sharpened up etc, either way it looks like somethings been done to it. Does it look un-edited to you? It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

I don't think it's edited, Liston is not in black&white and I believe it is Foreman in the photo. The other photo of them moving around in the ring without gloves show them looking exactly the same, same trunks, same background, same shirt on Liston. Is that photo also of someone other than Foreman?

Except Foreman himself has said the proper sparring photo isn't him.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:50

hhaehre wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:45

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43

It may well be a genuine photo, I just think the colour of Liston looks odd in comparison to the other fighter. Also check the shadows around the other guy, is he that close to the wall to cast a shadow that dark? I don't know, I'm no photographer. Maybe the photo has just been 'touched up' if it wasn't a particularly great image to start with, colour added, sharpened up etc, either way it looks like somethings been done to it. Does it look un-edited to you? It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

I don't think it's edited, Liston is not in black&white and I believe it is Foreman in the photo. The other photo of them moving around in the ring without gloves show them looking exactly the same, same trunks, same background, same shirt on Liston. Is that photo also of someone other than Foreman?

Except Foreman himself has said the proper sparring photo isn't him.

Foreman has said a lot of things and the photo was taken a long long time ago.
Do you think it's Foreman in this photo?

hhaehre wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 07:02

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:50

hhaehre wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:45
I don't think it's edited, Liston is not in black&white and I believe it is Foreman in the photo. The other photo of them moving around in the ring without gloves show them looking exactly the same, same trunks, same background, same shirt on Liston. Is that photo also of someone other than Foreman?

Except Foreman himself has said the proper sparring photo isn't him.

Foreman has said a lot of things and the photo was taken a long long time ago.
Do you think it's Foreman in this photo?

Wouldn't Foreman know a photo of himself? I'm not the only one who questions whether thats him in the gloved up photo. Yes it's him in this one, the poses look odd to me though, as other have also questioned on here.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:34

wouter wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:07

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 05:43It still doesn't get away from the fact it's being sold for hundreds of dollars online as a photo of Foreman and Liston when most of us don't think it is Foreman.

You seem to confuse Getty Images with someone selling an old photo on eBay.

It's being sold by Getty Images !

Not exactly, they are selling the rights to use certain images for (usually) commercial use. It is not as if they will send you an envelope with an actual photo inside.

wouter wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 08:07

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:34

wouter wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 06:07
You seem to confuse Getty Images with someone selling an old photo on eBay.

It's being sold by Getty Images !

Not exactly, they are selling the rights to use certain images for (usually) commercial use. It is not as if they will send you an envelope with an actual photo inside.

Yes I realise that, still holds value though because of who is in the image, two unknowns fighters wouldn't be that much.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 Apr 2021, 07:40 Wouldn't Foreman know a photo of himself? I'm not the only one who questions whether thats him in the gloved up photo. Yes it's him in this one, the poses look odd to me though, as other have also questioned on here.

Thousands of photos exist of Foreman and that he should mistake one of them taken 50 years ago isn't out of the realm of possibility.
As for the second photo, imo it makes no sense to believe that it is Forman in that photo, but not in the first one. It's clearly the same fighter in the two photos. Either it's Foreman in both or in none.

the new great mystery in boxing history

the question is when did "Getty Images" aquire the "photograph" ?
if they aquired it 50 years ago ?
also there should be a search of all known b/w photographs of Sonny Liston sparring and wearing head-gear
to see if any match that particular pose.

Elmer Hardy (while training at Snohomish County Boys Club in Everett Washington)
( for fight with Eddie Machen in 1960
check out this photo of him of Elmer Hardy on a stretcher in 1961)
https://ebay.com/itm/353206241883?

been trying to find out more about the gym that Sonny Liston had trained with George Foreman at in Oakland California
back in 1969.
I think it may have been (Frank) Pittman's Gym.(aka the Main Street Gym ?)
which may have been located on 12th Street in Downtown Oakland

The Acme Athletic Club (1897) once located on 13th and Clay Streets in Oakland.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Th ... DADQAAMAAJ?

Wow. The ignorance on display here by people who cant wrap their minds around the fact that photos were taken of two stablemates who sparred together is staggering.

Again, how deluded does someone have to be to convince themselves that it was important enough for someone to fake photos of a sparring session between Liston and Foreman when in fact Liston and Foreman sparred at this particular gym, at this particular time, and several photos were taken of it... Its not like this was some fantasy made up event. But its easier for you to believe that someone faked these photos than it is to believe that a photographer was actually there taking pictures? Jesus...

Same gym, same outfits, Foreman getting gloved up for the sparring just over Liston's shoulder. I know, I know, somebody just had to fake all of these photos of an event that actually happened and was well covered by the press at the time...

well IMOP if those two photographs are indeed geniune then they look to have been computer 'colourized"
because back in 1late 1960's and early 1970's there was one film stock for colour photographs that I know of

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 00:13
And, as a (very) long term boxing fan who is extremely used to seeing '70s fighters in photos, the guy on the left doesn't quite look like Foreman to me. In reality, Foreman is stockier than that guy. That was true even of the young, lean George. Foreman's actual body posturing in the ring, especially when he throws punches, is generally more stolid and rigid than the guy in the photo, whose body posturing is almost wispy in comparison with George's.

The fact they sparred isn't up for debate, and that close up colour photo is obviously Liston, but like you and others have said, the other guy doesn't look like Foreman. Plus when Foreman was shown the photo he said he didn't know who the other fighter was either. On this same thread there is video of titled "Foreman and Frazier sparring", except it isn't Frazier! But at the end of the day it matters not, Liston and Foreman sparred. Maybe, just maybe, Liston sparred more than one person that day and that's who is in that photo.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 16:07

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 15:59

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 00:13
And, as a (very) long term boxing fan who is extremely used to seeing '70s fighters in photos, the guy on the left doesn't quite look like Foreman to me. In reality, Foreman is stockier than that guy. That was true even of the young, lean George. Foreman's actual body posturing in the ring, especially when he throws punches, is generally more stolid and rigid than the guy in the photo, whose body posturing is almost wispy in comparison with George's.

The fact they sparred isn't up for debate, and that close up colour photo is obviously Liston, but like you and others have said, the other guy doesn't look like Foreman. Plus when Foreman was shown the photo he said he didn't know who the other fighter was either. On this same thread there is video of titled "Foreman and Frazier sparring", except it isn't Frazier! But at the end of the day it matters not, Liston and Foreman sparred. Maybe, just maybe, Liston sparred more than one person that day and that's who is in that photo.

I agree with everything you said. But I'm still very curious as to why that photo (the second) looks so weird. There's got to be an explanation.

Either it's a real photo that was subsequently distorted in tone by an old computer colorization program, or it's a photo shop fake.

Well, someone said it looked black&white and suddenly everyone sees it. I don't think it looks fake. Liston is wearing a white shirt and is a fairly dark skinned man, but. there is still clearly a brownish hue in his skin. And again, why would anyone fake the photo in the first place and even if someone did, why use a b&w photo of Liston? Makes no sense to me.

there is a whole industry of fake photos, theyre all over the place. just look up fake photos

that people create fake images or misatrribute them certainly isnt the part in doubt here

Well, that looks like the back of Dick Sadler's bald head gloving up Liston there,
and a Young teenage Foreman behind Liston.
I wonder who's (wide looking ) forehead that is that Dick Sadler's head is blocking from view ?
and I'm sure photographs were taken inside the Oakland gym of course.
It is just that the colours look too "Garish" for that time.
On the other hand Liston looks kind of young in the photo
and is wearing a "The Pines" T-Shirt which would date the photo to the early 1960's .
around the time he was going to fight Floyd Patterson for the Championship.
the image of Foreman behind him looks to me maybe taken from the 1968 Olympics Mexico City when he was walking around the ring waving the little American flag.
Could be all the people are genuine but may be a composite from photos of different dates.
( although from what I understand Dick Sadler did previously work Liston's corner as a second back in the early 1960's)
Liston's main corners up until mid-1965 were Willie Reddish, Milt Baily and Joe Polino)