BoxRec

Joe Ponce, Bobby Chacon's manager

Joe Ponce

Alias Mexican Kid Ponce
Country USA
Global Id 54471
Division Lightweight
Born 1913-01-01


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1943-10-27 Joey Barnum Los Angeles, USA L KO 5
1943-10-18 Frank Puglisi Ocean Park, USA D PTS 4
1943-09-22 Siebert Walker Long Beach, USA W TKO 3
1939-11-14 Dencio Cabanela Stockton, USA L KO 3
1939-08-08 George Latka San Jose, USA W PTS 0
1939-05-09 Danny Gonzalez San Jose, USA W PTS 6
1938-05-03 Truman Kennedy Seattle, USA W PTS 6
1938-04-26 Paul Smith Portland, USA W PTS 6
1938-04-19 Don Crowe Portland, USA W KO 6
1938-04-12 Kermit Stewart Portland, USA L PTS 6
1938-04-05 Johnny Hall Portland, USA W PTS 6
1938-03-29 Truman Kennedy Seattle, USA L PTS 6
1935-10-22 Dem Barcelona Los Angeles, USA L KO 2
1935-03-08 Johnny Hines Hollywood, USA L TKO 4
1935-02-08 Kid Moro Pismo Beach, USA L KO 1
1935-01-04 Augie Soliz Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1934-12-21 Augie Soliz Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1934-06-29 Johnny Hines Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1934-04-27 Tommy Paul Hollywood, USA NC NC 6
1934-04-06 Eddie Zivic Hollywood, USA L KO 8
1934-01-19 Georgie Hansford Hollywood, USA L PTS 10
1933-10-31 Bobby Gray Seattle, USA W PTS 8
1933-10-24 Allan Foston Seattle, USA W TKO 8
1933-10-17 Bobby Gray Seattle, USA D PTS 6
1933-10-03 Tommy Paul Seattle, USA L PTS 10
1933-09-19 Huerta Evans Seattle, USA W PTS 10
1933-09-01 Pastor Calope Bremerton, USA W PTS 8
1933-08-08 Young Jack Willis Seattle, USA W KO 2
1933-06-20 Ros Dumaguilas Seattle, USA W KO 3
1933-06-06 Bobby Jones Seattle, USA W KO 2
1933-05-23 Louis Nelson Seattle, USA W PTS 6
1933-05-16 Billy Petrie Vancouver, Canada W TKO 4
1933-05-09 Harry Marshall Seattle, USA W TKO 2
1933-05-02 Henry Woods Seattle, USA L KO 4
1933-04-07 Angus Smith Ventura, USA W PTS 6
1932-09-29 Ricky Hall Ventura, USA W PTS 6
1932-08-26 Boomer Brooker Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1932-06-27 Dow Smith Culver City, USA W TKO 5
1932-06-17 Willie Davies Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1932-06-13 Angus Smith Culver City, USA W PTS 4
1932-05-31 Lucky Baldwin Culver City, USA W PTS 4
1932-05-13 Jackie Red Stephens Hollywood, USA L KO 2
1932-04-22 Don Kennedy Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1932-04-08 Willie Davies Hollywood, USA D PTS 4
1932-03-24 Ricky Hall Hollywood, USA D PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 25 (KOs 9) Lost 15 Drawn 4 Total 45

Victor Kid Ponce

Country USA
Global Id 66833
Birthplace Sacramento, CA?
Division Featherweight


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1933-05-30 Tod Morgan Vancouver, Canada L KO 2
1933-05-18 Billy Gray Tacoma, USA L TKO 2
1932-10-19 Chalky Wright Long Beach, USA L KO 1
1932-10-14 Don Kennedy Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1932-09-23 Jack Goldman Hollywood, USA W TKO 2
1932-02-10 Willie Davies Wilmington, USA W PTS 6
1932-01-13 Bobby Sorio Wilmington, USA W KO 0
1930-05-17 Sammy Santos Pismo Beach, USA L KO 1
1930-03-18 Young Peter Jackson Fresno, USA L PTS 10
1930-02-15 Battling Bulahan Pismo Beach, USA D PTS 10
1930-01-31 Dutch Easter Ventura, USA L PTS 6
1930-01-17 Mike Cordova Hollywood, USA W PTS 0
1929-11-26 Joe Marcus Portland, USA L PTS 10
1929-10-04 Ignacio Fernandez Hollywood, USA L TKO 6
1929-07-26 Jimmy Piela Hollywood, USA W KO 2
1929-07-04 Rocky Moore Anaconda, USA D PTS 10
1929-06-28 Spud Murphy Havre, USA W UD 10
1929-04-24 Kid Anderson Wilmington, USA W TKO 6
1929-01-31 Baby Sal Sorio San Bernardino, USA L KO 2
1928-09-11 Joe Salas Los Angeles, USA L PTS 6
1928-05-18 Dixie LaHood Butte, USA L KO 7
1928-03-13 Dixie LaHood Butte, USA W TKO 1
1928-02-01 Dynamite Joe Murphy Oakland, USA L PTS 6
1928-01-11 Santiago Zorrilla Wilmington, USA L PTS 10
1927-11-30 Midget Smith El Rio, USA W KO 5
1927-10-26 Dixie LaHood Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1927-10-12 Santiago Zorrilla Wilmington, USA L PTS 10
1927-08-03 Jimmy Black Wilmington, USA L PTS 6
1927-06-07 Dario Barron Los Angeles, USA L PTS 6
1927-05-04 Joe Burns Wilmington, USA W KO 5
1927-04-06 Joe Menson Ocean Park, USA W PTS 6
1927-04-01 Jack McFarland Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1927-03-24 Mickey O'Donnell Culver City, USA W KO 1
1927-02-25 Willie Brown Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1927-01-26 Jimmy Black Wilmington, USA L PTS 6
1927-01-12 Jimmy Black Wilmington, USA D PTS 6
1926-12-09 Santiago Zorrilla Culver City, USA L PTS 8
1926-10-20 Ritchie King Wilmington, USA L TKO 8
1926-09-21 Benny 'Kid' Carter Fresno, USA L PTS 10
1926-09-18 Joe Burns Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1926-09-08 Billy Blake Wilmington, USA D PTS 6
1926-07-28 Albert Al Jacks Wilmington, USA D PTS 8
1926-05-14 Hector McDonald Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1926-04-23 Danny Toomey Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1926-04-07 Don Levy Wilmington, USA L PTS 6
1926-01-12 Al Neff Vernon, USA W PTS 6
1925-11-14 Nat Pincus Vernon, USA L PTS 8
1925-09-09 Sammy Shack Los Angeles, USA W PTS 10
1925-06-17 Alkie Akol Wilmington, USA W PTS 6
1925-04-02 Checkie Herman San Bernardino, USA D PTS 10
1925-02-11 Kewpie Ecklund Wilmington, USA W PTS 4
1924-10-17 Sid Bonaface Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1924-09-26 Ray Schauer Hollywood, USA D PTS 4
1924-09-13 Gene Kid Payo Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1924-08-09 Gene Kid Payo Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1924-08-02 Gene Kid Payo Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1924-08-01 Charley Kid Sullivan Bakersfield, USA W PTS 4
1924-07-02 Billy Blake San Fernando, USA NC NC 0
1924-06-07 Gene Kid Payo Los Angeles, USA L KO 1
1924-06-07 Kid Chili Culver City, USA NC NC 0
1924-05-31 Billy Blake Los Angeles, USA W PTS 4
1924-05-28 Ernie Hood Pasadena, USA L PTS 4
1924-03-01 Billy Blake Los Angeles, USA D PTS 4
1924-01-30 Young Siki San Fernando, USA D PTS 4
1924-01-23 Kid Small San Fernando, USA W PTS 4
1924-01-18 Johnny Martin Hollywood, USA L KO 1
1924-01-16 Billy Blake San Fernando, USA D PTS 4
1924-01-09 Dave Charles San Fernando, USA W KO 1
1924-01-02 Dave Charles San Fernando, USA D PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 25 (KOs 9) Lost 29 Drawn 13 Total 69

Vic Kid Ponce

Country USA
Global Id 63618
Division Featherweight


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1956-05-05 Paul Armstead Hollywood, USA L TKO 9
1956-02-02 Eddie Hernandez Los Angeles, USA W SD 10
1955-12-29 Julian Velasquez Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1955-11-24 Eddie Hernandez Los Angeles, USA L KO 6
1954-06-26 Jesse Mongia Hollywood, USA L UD 10
1954-04-09 Jerry Strutz Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1954-03-06 Johnny Hart Hollywood, USA D PTS 10
1954-02-06 Sammy Serrano Hollywood, USA W TKO 1
1953-12-19 Henry Willis Hollywood, USA W KO 1
1953-11-14 Collier Cox Hollywood, USA W KO 2
1953-10-31 Carroll Genshaw Hollywood, USA W TKO 7
1953-09-12 Len Marcus Hollywood, USA W KO 1
1953-08-22 Candy Lopez Hollywood, USA W TKO 1
1953-07-25 Ramon Carrillo Hollywood, USA W SD 6
1953-04-11 Augie Villa Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1953-03-14 Tony Maiorana Hollywood, USA W TKO 2
1953-03-03 Bobby Robles Los Angeles, USA W TKO 2
1953-02-07 Billy Evans Hollywood, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 12 (KOs 8) Lost 5 Drawn 1 Total 18

Of the three Ponce's, the only one I saw fight was Vic Jr., I seem most of his fight live at the Hollywood Legion

hap...Remember Candy Lopez? Candy use to throw candies to the crowd on his way to the ring.
Had a short career.

dagosd2000 wrote:Forgot Santo and Johnny. Where are thay now? I look at something like American idol and can't understand the fuss. Put Santo and Johnny on American Idol today and people would look at each other. Not me,I'd be looking at the prettiest girl.

Rog,

Santo & Johnny's rendition of Moonlight Serenade is one of the most beautiful rendition of that tune that I have ever heard, like Glenn Miller's, love Santo & Johnny's.

kikibalt wrote:
"Benny Leonard"

By Roger Esty

"The toughest fighter to fight is a stupid fighter. When you feint him, he doesn't even know you're doing it."

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:OK Frank
Where do we start? The old trolley cars. Road 'em in Chicago. Took one once with my uncle and cousin in L.A. I always like to see them at night when the sparks would come off the wires.

The Pike. What a monster roller coaster. I know they have bigger ones now,but that thing was right next to the ocean. We still have a smaller version down here. Belmont Park. The city was almost going to get rid of it,but it was saved. The roller coaster and the smaller rides. Only thing they don't have is the hucksters with all those rigged games like ring toss and the sledge hammer to ring the bell.Also I miss the side shows. Even the State Fairs don't have a decent side show anymore. The music they played in back of the video is that same song they'd play at all those amusement parks. Don't know the name of it,but everytime I hear it ,it reminds me of amusement parks. The one in Chicago,that's no longer there, was called Riverview.

Mario Lanza could have been the greatest opera singer of all time. Some of his arias I still think are the best. He sang as good as Pavoratti,but Hollywood derailed his operatic career.

Richie Valens. You knew he was from the neighborhood when he made that album,"Live At Pocoima Junior High". Think of what he could have been on an Oldies But Goodies Tour?

The Seaside Gym, Long Beach . . .

The Long Beach Pike Roller Coaster? That was the "Cyclone Racer" and at high tide, I swear the thing would dip into the surf as it made a drop prior to it's going upwards into it's highest point. Spent some time there as a kid with my cousin. They had the old style "Diving Bell" too. It would drop you from the pier under the Pacific Ocean giving you a view under the surf. They had the old arcades, and board walk, lots of Navy guys from what was then a Naval Base in Long Beach Harbor. Tatoo parlors, dive bars, the rigged consession stands, the hucksters, as Dagos pointed out.

Right down the beach was the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium, where guys like Rodolfo Gonzalez would headline, and where I'd fight in 1971 before they tore the place down. Now it's all trendy Long Beach Marina and the Queen Mary. Lots of boxing has taken place in that area. There is a Sports Arena, and I fought on the inaugrual boxing card, a prelim to the Armando Muniz-Clyde Grey fight in November, 1971. Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose was also right next to the Queen Mary, and under one of it's massive wings boxing was promoted in the late 80's. Guys like Jaime Garza were featured.

Everytime I'm in the area I think of the old "Seaside Gym", which was located right down the boardwalk about a block from the Pike and the old Municipal Auditorium, where the Long Beach Arena now sits. Veteran manager/trainer Jake Shagrue, a salty old Navy vet would sleep there every night The place was cold as Hell, the cold ocean breeze blowing under the front door into the unheated building. Shagrue, in his 70's, slept on an old Navy cot covered only by a military issue green wool blanket. No sheets, a tiny pillow. I saw it, right behind the rubbing table in the gym. This was a place that served as home for future lightweight champ Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos when he was down, Raul Rojas, and dozens more. Long after their best days, or in Gonzalez's case, before he hit it big, this was home for many boxers, a place to sleep on a cold night. It was chilly, drafty and dark at night, but it was home to many when they needed one.

Frank remembers the place, the guys who coached there, Chicago's former light-heavy contender Sonny Ray and Ernie DeFrance. These guys were part of the 60's and 70's amateur boxing scene in L.A. during Frank's era as L.A.'s #1 amateur boxing coach. I would love to hear Frank and Hap share anything they might know about Long Beach and boxing, San Pedro, etc. I know that Bobby Chacon's manager/trainer, Joe Ponce, fought out of San Pedro as "Joey Ponce". Any memories of that area and boxing history?

-Rick Farris

Around 1950 I started riding the Red Car from downtown L.A. to the Long Beach Pike during the summer to ride the roller coaster and meet girls, the pike was a big hang-out for teenager at that time, once I got my first car (Late1951) I started driving there with a car full of guys, one thing, the girls were only interested in you if you had a car, and it better have had a working radio to listen to Hunter Hancock....

"Seaside Gym"

Rick....I remember Sonny Ray, Ernie DeFrance and Jake Shagrue real well, but darn, I never step a foot inside the Seaside Gym.....

Frank,
This 1946 Ford Willard Mixer sat in the mixing yard of a local concrete supplier for
years after it could no longer haul concrete, then someone drug it out and restored
it and its a beauty; gets a ribbon at all of the local shows and a lot of publicity.
Thought you would enjoy seeing it.
Bruce

Cleveland’s Bivins Battled The Best
By Jim Amato


Although he was born in Dry Branch, Georgia it was from Cleveland, Ohio that Jimmy Bivins made history. He was a major player in putting Cleveland on the boxing map during the 1940’s and 50’s. He may well have been the best heavyweight and light heavyweight to ever come out of this great boxing town.

Jimmy Bivins was born on December 6, 1919. His professional career began as a middleweight in Cleveland on January 15, 1940. In his sixth pro fight he beat a solid veteran in Nate Bolden. On September 3rd Jimmy was good enough to outpoint the highly respected Charley Burley. This has to be considered an outstanding feat at this stage of Jimmy’s budding career. Bivins closed 1940 by splitting a pair of tough bouts in Cleveland with Anton Christoforidis. The loss in the second bout to Anton was the first of his career.

The year 1941 saw Jimmy lose a few bouts but he was really in with top shelf opposition. He beat Teddy Yarosz and Curtis “Hatchetman” Shepperd. He lost decisions to Lem Franklin and Tony Musto. He defeated Nate Bolden again but lost to Melio Bettina. Jimmy was a full-fledged light heavyweight by now. In some fights he was coming in as a heavyweight.

Jimmy started 1942 with a bang as he outscored Billy Soose and Gus Lesnevich. Bivins then lost to the smooth boxing Bob Pastor. On June 6th at Cleveland Municipal Stadium to of the greatest boxers in Cleveland’s history met. Jimmy squeaked a split decision over the crafty Joey Maxim.

Then Jimmy went on a rampage. In this order he defeated Joe Muscato, Tami Mauriello, Bob Pastor in a rematch. Then he beat Lee Savold to close 1942. He opened 1943 beating Ezzard Charles and winning a rubber match with Christoforidis. He defeated Mauriello again and then beat Watson Jones, Pat Valentino, Lloyd Marshall, Herbert Marshall and Bettina in a return engagement. The year ended with a win over Lee Q. Murray.

Bivins picked up right where he left off in 1945 by beating Murray again. Three fights later he drew with the always-tough Bettina. On August 22nd Bivins scored one of the most important wins of his career. Jimmy had Archie Moore on the canvas several times enroot to a sixth round stoppage.

Jimmy opened 1946 with four straight victories but on February 25th Jersey Joe Walcott outscored him in ten rounds at the Cleveland Arena.Two fights later in Pittsburgh he lost to the great Ezzard Charles. Jimmy got a few more victories but on March 10, 1947 Ezzard Charles halted him in four rounds. On September 8th a determined Archie Moore in Baltimore kayoed him in nine rounds.

Jimmy put together a six fight win streak into 1948 including another win over Pat Valentino. In June he lost a decision to Moore and in September in Washington D.C. he lost a verdict to Charles. He closed 1948 with a point’s loss to Maxim.

In April 11, 1949 Archie Moore again stopped him. He would lose to Leonard Morrow but beat him in a return bout. He stopped the talented Clarence Henry and was then out slicked by the clever future light heavyweight champion Harold Johnson. In 1950 he lost Sid Peaks. In 1951 he beat Tiger Ted Lowry but was again kayod by Archie Moore. In June he lost in a return with Clarence Henry.

On August 15th at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore Jimmy entered the ring to face the great comebacking former champion Joe Louis. At one point when Louis was champion but inactive due to his being in the Armed Forces, he named Jimmy the “Interim Heavyweight Champion”. Now they were in the ring together. Joe won over ten rounds. Next Jimmy would lose to undefeated Bob Baker but closed the year beating Doc Williams.

In! 952 Jimmy beat Coley Wallace and Wes Bascom. He then lost to Tommy Harrison. Charles then defeated him once again. He opened 1953 by losing to Tommy Harrison for a second time. He was able to close the year with wins over Claude Wolfe and Chubby Wright.

Jimmy was inactive for two years but returned in 1955. Bivins closed his career with a six round points call over Mike DeJohn.

Jimmy’s record was an impressive 86-25-1 with 31 KO’s. What makes his career special and more then justifies his place in the International Boxing Hall Of Fame are the names of the great boxers he defeated during his heyday.

If you can say that you defeated Charley Burley, Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz, Billy Soose, Gus Lesnevich, Joey Maxim, Tami Mauriello, Bob Pastor, Lee Savold, Ezzard Charles, Pat Valentino, Lloyd Marshall, Melio Bettina and Archie Moore… You deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame. In other words, you were great!

Dongee wrote:Rick:

There were at least two Ponce brothers who boxed out of the San Pedro area, Vic "Kid" and Joey, in the 1920s and 1930s. I only saw Joey box once in February, 1935, at Pismo Beach. Vic had retired by then.

Even though Joey was a main event fighter in '35 he appeared in a four round prelim against another star bout attraction from the Philippines, Kid Moro. In the first major exchange between the two men, Ponce was accidentally thumbed in the eyes, dropped to the canvas writhing in pain to be counted out by the referee. Two years before that, Joey had campaigned in the Pacific Northwest where he was acclaimed lightweight champion of the State of Washington.

In my days at the Legion I developed Vic, Jr. into a feature bout figure, but not for very long. The youngster, like his dad, was a terrific right hand puncher and became rather popular with Hollywood fans. I believe he holds the record for the quickest kayo (32 seconds) scored at the Legion against Sammy Serrano in the mid-1950s.

hap nvarro

Thanks Hap. While investigating the career of Joey, I found a second Joey Ponce that fought a few prelims around the same time. He fought out of San Fernando, where Bobby Chacon's trainer, Joe Ponce, lived. I'm wondering if San Pedro's Joey Ponce was Bobby's trainer, or the San Fernando guy? I don't expect you to have an answer for that one, guess I'd have to see a picture to know for sure. Last I heard Joe Ponce was in a rest home somewhere, prior to that in the early 90's I know that my friend, kickboxng great Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, hired Joe as a boxing instructor for his North Hollywood Gym.

Bennie was laughing when he told the story of how Joe took a group of young boys who were new students and demanded they go thru the same training as a kid looking to enter a career in boxing. "He scared the Hell out of those kids. He was a cranky old school master and he was tough on the kids, they all disappeared," Bennie said. I know that Joe was a disciplinarian and a true trainer, that's why Bobby Chacon did so well when he was under Joe's wing and paying attention.

To my knowledge, Joe Ponce is still alive. I see Bobby Chacon occasionlly and would ask him about Joe, but I don't think Bobby is aware of such things? I'll give it a try next time I see him.

-Rick Farris

Rick Farris wrote:

Dongee wrote:Rick:

There were at least two Ponce brothers who boxed out of the San Pedro area, Vic "Kid" and Joey, in the 1920s and 1930s. I only saw Joey box once in February, 1935, at Pismo Beach. Vic had retired by then.

Even though Joey was a main event fighter in '35 he appeared in a four round prelim against another star bout attraction from the Philippines, Kid Moro. In the first major exchange between the two men, Ponce was accidentally thumbed in the eyes, dropped to the canvas writhing in pain to be counted out by the referee. Two years before that, Joey had campaigned in the Pacific Northwest where he was acclaimed lightweight champion of the State of Washington.

In my days at the Legion I developed Vic, Jr. into a feature bout figure, but not for very long. The youngster, like his dad, was a terrific right hand puncher and became rather popular with Hollywood fans. I believe he holds the record for the quickest kayo (32 seconds) scored at the Legion against Sammy Serrano in the mid-1950s.

hap nvarro

Thanks Hap. While investigating the career of Joey, I found a second Joey Ponce that fought a few prelims around the same time. He fought out of San Fernando, where Bobby Chacon's trainer, Joe Ponce, lived. I'm wondering if San Pedro's Joey Ponce was Bobby's trainer, or the San Fernando guy? I don't expect you to have an answer for that one, guess I'd have to see a picture to know for sure. Last I heard Joe Ponce was in a rest home somewhere, prior to that in the early 90's I know that my friend, kickboxng great Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, hired Joe as a boxing instructor for his North Hollywood Gym.

Bennie was laughing when he told the story of how Joe took a group of young boys who were new students and demanded they go thru the same training as a kid looking to enter a career in boxing. "He scared the Hell out of those kids. He was a cranky old school master and he was tough on the kids, they all disappeared," Bennie said. I know that Joe was a disciplinarian and a true trainer, that's why Bobby Chacon did so well when he was under Joe's wing and paying attention.

To my knowledge, Joe Ponce is still alive. I see Bobby Chacon occasionlly and would ask him about Joe, but I don't think Bobby is aware of such things? I'll give it a try next time I see him.

-Rick Farris

Rick...Joe Ponce died this year.

kikibalt wrote:Joe Ponce, Bobby Chacon's manager

Joe Ponce

Alias Mexican Kid Ponce
Country USA
Global Id 54471
Division Lightweight
Born 1913-01-01


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1943-10-27 Joey Barnum Los Angeles, USA L KO 5
1943-10-18 Frank Puglisi Ocean Park, USA D PTS 4
1943-09-22 Siebert Walker Long Beach, USA W TKO 3
1939-11-14 Dencio Cabanela Stockton, USA L KO 3
1939-08-08 George Latka San Jose, USA W PTS 0
1939-05-09 Danny Gonzalez San Jose, USA W PTS 6
1938-05-03 Truman Kennedy Seattle, USA W PTS 6
1938-04-26 Paul Smith Portland, USA W PTS 6
1938-04-19 Don Crowe Portland, USA W KO 6
1938-04-12 Kermit Stewart Portland, USA L PTS 6
1938-04-05 Johnny Hall Portland, USA W PTS 6
1938-03-29 Truman Kennedy Seattle, USA L PTS 6
1935-10-22 Dem Barcelona Los Angeles, USA L KO 2
1935-03-08 Johnny Hines Hollywood, USA L TKO 4
1935-02-08 Kid Moro Pismo Beach, USA L KO 1
1935-01-04 Augie Soliz Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1934-12-21 Augie Soliz Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1934-06-29 Johnny Hines Hollywood, USA L PTS 6
1934-04-27 Tommy Paul Hollywood, USA NC NC 6
1934-04-06 Eddie Zivic Hollywood, USA L KO 8
1934-01-19 Georgie Hansford Hollywood, USA L PTS 10
1933-10-31 Bobby Gray Seattle, USA W PTS 8
1933-10-24 Allan Foston Seattle, USA W TKO 8
1933-10-17 Bobby Gray Seattle, USA D PTS 6
1933-10-03 Tommy Paul Seattle, USA L PTS 10
1933-09-19 Huerta Evans Seattle, USA W PTS 10
1933-09-01 Pastor Calope Bremerton, USA W PTS 8
1933-08-08 Young Jack Willis Seattle, USA W KO 2
1933-06-20 Ros Dumaguilas Seattle, USA W KO 3
1933-06-06 Bobby Jones Seattle, USA W KO 2
1933-05-23 Louis Nelson Seattle, USA W PTS 6
1933-05-16 Billy Petrie Vancouver, Canada W TKO 4
1933-05-09 Harry Marshall Seattle, USA W TKO 2
1933-05-02 Henry Woods Seattle, USA L KO 4
1933-04-07 Angus Smith Ventura, USA W PTS 6
1932-09-29 Ricky Hall Ventura, USA W PTS 6
1932-08-26 Boomer Brooker Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1932-06-27 Dow Smith Culver City, USA W TKO 5
1932-06-17 Willie Davies Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1932-06-13 Angus Smith Culver City, USA W PTS 4
1932-05-31 Lucky Baldwin Culver City, USA W PTS 4
1932-05-13 Jackie Red Stephens Hollywood, USA L KO 2
1932-04-22 Don Kennedy Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1932-04-08 Willie Davies Hollywood, USA D PTS 4
1932-03-24 Ricky Hall Hollywood, USA D PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 25 (KOs 9) Lost 15 Drawn 4 Total 45

Fought some good ones, Joey Barnum, George Latka and Tommy Paul, to name a few. Frank, thanks for posting the records of the Ponce brothers and thanks to Hap for sharing the history. Frank, I wasn't aware that Joe had died, I will have to include his name on the "Ten Count" list of the WBHOF and will make sure to honor him along with those who have passed.

-Rick Farris

kikibalt wrote:Of the three Ponce's, the only one I saw fight was Vic Jr., I seem most of his fight live at the Hollywood Legion

Looking at Chavez and Ponce managers I see a familiar name from my era . . . Tivo Lomeli.

-Rick

I was wrong, Joe died last year

Joe Ponce was 'Old School" all the way

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:OK Frank
Where do we start? The old trolley cars. Road 'em in Chicago. Took one once with my uncle and cousin in L.A. I always like to see them at night when the sparks would come off the wires.

The Pike. What a monster roller coaster. I know they have bigger ones now,but that thing was right next to the ocean. We still have a smaller version down here. Belmont Park. The city was almost going to get rid of it,but it was saved. The roller coaster and the smaller rides. Only thing they don't have is the hucksters with all those rigged games like ring toss and the sledge hammer to ring the bell.Also I miss the side shows. Even the State Fairs don't have a decent side show anymore. The music they played in back of the video is that same song they'd play at all those amusement parks. Don't know the name of it,but everytime I hear it ,it reminds me of amusement parks. The one in Chicago,that's no longer there, was called Riverview.

Mario Lanza could have been the greatest opera singer of all time. Some of his arias I still think are the best. He sang as good as Pavoratti,but Hollywood derailed his operatic career.

Richie Valens. You knew he was from the neighborhood when he made that album,"Live At Pocoima Junior High". Think of what he could have been on an Oldies But Goodies Tour?

The Seaside Gym, Long Beach . . .

The Long Beach Pike Roller Coaster? That was the "Cyclone Racer" and at high tide, I swear the thing would dip into the surf as it made a drop prior to it's going upwards into it's highest point. Spent some time there as a kid with my cousin. They had the old style "Diving Bell" too. It would drop you from the pier under the Pacific Ocean giving you a view under the surf. They had the old arcades, and board walk, lots of Navy guys from what was then a Naval Base in Long Beach Harbor. Tatoo parlors, dive bars, the rigged consession stands, the hucksters, as Dagos pointed out.

Right down the beach was the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium, where guys like Rodolfo Gonzalez would headline, and where I'd fight in 1971 before they tore the place down. Now it's all trendy Long Beach Marina and the Queen Mary. Lots of boxing has taken place in that area. There is a Sports Arena, and I fought on the inaugrual boxing card, a prelim to the Armando Muniz-Clyde Grey fight in November, 1971. Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose was also right next to the Queen Mary, and under one of it's massive wings boxing was promoted in the late 80's. Guys like Jaime Garza were featured.

Everytime I'm in the area I think of the old "Seaside Gym", which was located right down the boardwalk about a block from the Pike and the old Municipal Auditorium, where the Long Beach Arena now sits. Veteran manager/trainer Jake Shagrue, a salty old Navy vet would sleep there every night The place was cold as Hell, the cold ocean breeze blowing under the front door into the unheated building. Shagrue, in his 70's, slept on an old Navy cot covered only by a military issue green wool blanket. No sheets, a tiny pillow. I saw it, right behind the rubbing table in the gym. This was a place that served as home for future lightweight champ Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos when he was down, Raul Rojas, and dozens more. Long after their best days, or in Gonzalez's case, before he hit it big, this was home for many boxers, a place to sleep on a cold night. It was chilly, drafty and dark at night, but it was home to many when they needed one.

Frank remembers the place, the guys who coached there, Chicago's former light-heavy contender Sonny Ray and Ernie DeFrance. These guys were part of the 60's and 70's amateur boxing scene in L.A. during Frank's era as L.A.'s #1 amateur boxing coach. I would love to hear Frank and Hap share anything they might know about Long Beach and boxing, San Pedro, etc. I know that Bobby Chacon's manager/trainer, Joe Ponce, fought out of San Pedro as "Joey Ponce". Any memories of that area and boxing history?

-Rick Farris

Around 1950 I started riding the Red Car from downtown L.A. to the Long Beach Pike during the summer to ride the roller coaster and meet girls, the pike was a big hang-out for teenager at that time, once I got my first car (Late1951) I started driving there with a car full of guys, one thing, the girls were only interested in you if you had a car, and it better have had a working radio to listen to Hunter Hancock....

"Seaside Gym"

Rick....I remember Sonny Ray, Ernie DeFrance and Jake Shagrue real well, but darn, I never step a foot inside the Seaside Gym.....

Frank, I was only there a couple times myself. Mel Epstein had arranged some boxing with a boxer Shagrue was working with and we made the trip down to Long Beach. This is when I saw the old cot pushed up against a wall where Jake would sleep. It was real windy that day, I recall that sand from the beach would blow in under the front door and Jake would be cursing to himself as he swept the area where the boxers would skip rope. Jake had just had one of his legs amputated when I was there, which could lead to another Frankie Crawford/Jake Shagrue story I've probably told here already. Jake Shagrue was one tough old man. The place breathed boxing, it was a true fight gym, a cold one on the days I was there.

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:
I was wrong, Joe died last year

Joe Ponce was 'Old School" all the way

Rest his soul. Joe worked with me a few times when he was training Bobby. He was one of the best teachers I knew, and he helped me with my balance and footwork. I have to say that he was a far better teacher than Johnny Flores, Suey Welch or Mel Epstein, no disrespect intended toward my former mentors. Ponce had been a fighter like Jackie McCoy, he was also a master trainer. No room for fooling around with a guy like Ponce. To bad there aren't a few of these guys left.

By the way, the birth year on the photo validates that Joey Ponce the trainer and Joey Ponce the San Pedro fighter are the same man. Thanks for giving me the answer Frank.

-Rick Farris

Red Cars of Los Angeles



Picture Los Angeles today, and most people summon up images of cars and freeways. But if you talk to people of a certain age who grew up in Los Angeles, and mention the words "red cars", you will hear about a time before the freeways, when a network of rail lines and electric streetcars connected L.A., Orange, Ventura, San Bernardino and Riverside counties. They reached their peak in popularity in the 1920s, then slowly fell victim to Angelenos' love of their automobiles. By the time the last Red Car was retired from service in 1961, only rail hobbyists expressed much regret. But in the years since, fond memories, and perhaps freeway gridlock, have made the Red Cars more than just a forgotten bit of L.A. history. As the new Metro Green, Red, and Blue lines now follow routes often very close to those once traveled by the old Red Car lines, this seems an opportune time to stop and remember what once was the premiere means of getting around southern California.

The first streetcar system in L.A. dates back to 1874, when Judge Robert M. Widney convinced his neighbors in the vicinity of Third and Hill Streets (then considered the sticks) that they needed a convenient way to get to the business section of the city. A single-track railroad stretched for 2 1/2 miles from the Mission Plaza down Main and Spring Streets to Sixth Street. Subsequent horse-drawn streetcar systems were developed in other growing communities like Pasadena, Ontatrio, Santa Monica, and San Bernardino. A portion of the L.A. system along Pico Street was electrified in 1887, and expanded in 1890.

Starting in 1894 Moses Sherman and Eli Clark began acquiring the various cities' horse-car and cablecar systems, eventually forming the Los Angeles Consolidated Electric Railway. One of the new company's first project was the University Line, which included the University of Southern California. Until this time, all the systems had operated within cities. But in 1895 the first intercity line opened; an electric rail line that linked Pasadena and Los Angeles. This intercity line was such a huge success that others soon followed: by 1896 tracks ran from Los Angeles through what would one day be Beverly Hills, Hollywood to Santa Monica.

In 1898, financial difficulties forced Sherman and Clark to give up control of their company. A group of investors, including Collis Huntington, president of the Southern Pacific Railroad, and his nephew Henry Huntington took over control of the Los Angeles Consolidated Electric Railway. This period also marked the birth of "Red Cars". prior to Huntington's takeover, the trolley cars had been olive colored, trimmed in yellow.

Henry Huntington, seeing an opportunity to move in on the still small public transportation market in southern California, began buying land in growing areas not yet reached by existing public transportation. In 1901 he established the Pacific Electric Railway to handle these holdings. Pacific Electric took over the Los Angeles-Pasadena interurban line, then built a new line to Long Beach in 1902. By 1914, you could go from downtown L.A. to San Bernardino, Santa Ana, San Pedro or San Fernando. Pacific Electric offered low cost trips to a variety of southern California destinations. The Old Mission trip went to San Gabriel Mission, Pasadena, Busch Gardens then back to L.A. The Mount Lowe trolley, which was a narrow-guage cable car ride to the top of Echo Mountain. The Balloon Route ran from downtown through Hollywood, Santa Monica, Venice Beach, Redondo Beach and back to L.A. via Culver City. The Triangle Trolley went to San Pedro, Long Beach and south to Balboa, then east to Santa Ana and back to L.A.

By the 1920s, as the popularity of automobiles increased, service to some communities was discontinued as tracks were paved over, and the trains had to yield their high speed right of ways to traffic crossings. Lack of public support defeated plans for a subway or elevated rail system, and bus lines began to replace the red cars in many areas.

World War II brought a brief resurgence in popularity to rail travel, and the refurbishing of some lines, in fact ridership numbers hit an all-time high in 1944. But by the 1950s it was clear that the automobile had become the premier means of travel in L.A. In 1953, Pacific Electric handed over control of the bus lines and the red car lines to Metropolitan Coach Lines, and then in 1958, the newly created Los Angeles Metropolitan Transit Authority took over both bus and rail passenger service in southern California. The explosive growth and sprawl of L.A. in the postwar years, lack of public money to keep up the existing lines, the huge increase in automobiles and the freeways that were built to accommodate them all conspired to kill the red cars. By 1959 only the Los Angeles to Long Beach trolley line remained, and on April 8, 1961 it, too, ceased operation.

At its peak, the Pacific Electric Railway was huge: 1,150 miles of track covering four counties and 900 cars. 1944 marked the highest ridership: over 109 million passengers.

HERO WORSHIP

Ken Norton was going to fight George Foreman for the Heavyweight Title. San Diego had grown in numbers since Archie Moore was king of the Light Heavies. Sports had become a marketed enterprise that was reaching across the globe. Something like this was going to be on the big screen beamed in at the Sports Arena.

Aside from the dedicated who went weekly at the Coliseum,boxing was mostly a non interest here. But now we have Kenny,the Marine and local guy trying to beat the guy that destroyed Frazier.

The fans started coming out of the woodwork. People who had never seen a fight live, were now going to pay to see Norton attempt to conquer Big George on the big screen.

I paid. The Sports Arena that night was packed to the doors. I couldn't read the crowd,but most thought Norton had a better than even chance. Most had never seen him fight. I knew Norton was uneasy with another puncher. Ali didn't frighten him because Ali couldn't hurt Kenny. George could hurt everybody. Big George did his stare down at ring center. Norton tried to act unintimidated. His slumped shoulders gave him away.

You could see at the bell Norton was very carefull. Circling. Throwing a punch with" hoping to get lucky intentions." His balance was horrinle. His legs were uneasy. Big George knew he had Norton's heart from the gong. In the third Kenny was falling, collapsing. He looked bewildered. George's muscles were bigger than his. He didn't slap like Ali. He threw with all his might.Norton was the heavy bag that night.

After it was over San Diegans,I knew, weren't ever going to pay for something like that again. Norton went back to the Coliseum. But Kenny held an ace. He always gave Ali a hard time. It defined his career.

Funny though. When Ali fought Norton again for the big time,my feeling was San Diegans weren't behind him anymore. If you're an athlete from this city,everyone will jump off the band wagon if you lose one. No such thing as hero worship here.

dagosd2000 wrote:HERO WORSHIP

Ken Norton was going to fight George Foreman for the Heavyweight Title. San Diego had grown in numbers since Archie Moore was king of the Light Heavies. Sports had become a marketed enterprise that was reaching across the globe. Something like this was going to be on the big screen beamed in at the Sports Arena.

Aside from the dedicated who went weekly at the Coliseum,boxing was mostly a non interest here. But now we have Kenny,the Marine and local guy trying to beat the guy that destroyed Frazier.

The fans started coming out of the woodwork. People who had never seen a fight live, were now going to pay to see Norton attempt to conquer Big George on the big screen.

I paid. The Sports Arena that night was packed to the doors. I couldn't read the crowd,but most thought Norton had a better than even chance. Most had never seen him fight. I knew Norton was uneasy with another puncher. Ali didn't frighten him because Ali couldn't hurt Kenny. George could hurt everybody. Big George did his stare down at ring center. Norton tried to act unintimidated. His slumped shoulders gave him away.

You could see at the bell Norton was very carefull. Circling. Throwing a punch with" hoping to get lucky intentions." His balance was horrinle. His legs were uneasy. Big George knew he had Norton's heart from the gong. In the third Kenny was falling, collapsing. He looked bewildered. George's muscles were bigger than his. He didn't slap like Ali. He threw with all his might.Norton was the heavy bag that night.

After it was over San Diegans,I knew, weren't ever going to pay for something like that again. Norton went back to the Coliseum. But Kenny held an ace. He always gave Ali a hard time. It defined his career.

Funny though. When Ali fought Norton again for the big time,my feeling was San Diegans weren't behind him anymore. If you're an athlete from this city,everyone will jump off the band wagon if you lose one. No such thing as hero worship here.

You really captured this one, Roger. None of those who wrote from ringside told what really happened. They wrote of punches and physical actions, not what really led to the conclusion of the contest. It went far beyond Foreman's strength, more about Norton's weakness and shortcomings, and Roger writes it clearer than anybody did for Ring Mag, or the newspapers, except maybe the great Jim Murray of the L.A. Times. The above tells what those of us who know boxing knew, the real facts about why one wins or loses. Thanks Rog, great story. Your description of Ken Norton was right on.

As for the San Diego fans, it's the same in Los Angeles, we have lots of choices and are loyal to no athlete or team. If they win, we love them. Lose? We don't need 'em. In Southern Cal we're not like Green Bay, where the only thing in town is the Packers. You can't afford to lose in Southern Cal, it's just the way it is. We understand winning and losing, most fans don't.

-Rick

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:HERO WORSHIP

Ken Norton was going to fight George Foreman for the Heavyweight Title. San Diego had grown in numbers since Archie Moore was king of the Light Heavies. Sports had become a marketed enterprise that was reaching across the globe. Something like this was going to be on the big screen beamed in at the Sports Arena.

Aside from the dedicated who went weekly at the Coliseum,boxing was mostly a non interest here. But now we have Kenny,the Marine and local guy trying to beat the guy that destroyed Frazier.

The fans started coming out of the woodwork. People who had never seen a fight live, were now going to pay to see Norton attempt to conquer Big George on the big screen.

I paid. The Sports Arena that night was packed to the doors. I couldn't read the crowd,but most thought Norton had a better than even chance. Most had never seen him fight. I knew Norton was uneasy with another puncher. Ali didn't frighten him because Ali couldn't hurt Kenny. George could hurt everybody. Big George did his stare down at ring center. Norton tried to act unintimidated. His slumped shoulders gave him away.

You could see at the bell Norton was very carefull. Circling. Throwing a punch with" hoping to get lucky intentions." His balance was horrinle. His legs were uneasy. Big George knew he had Norton's heart from the gong. In the third Kenny was falling, collapsing. He looked bewildered. George's muscles were bigger than his. He didn't slap like Ali. He threw with all his might.Norton was the heavy bag that night.

After it was over San Diegans,I knew, weren't ever going to pay for something like that again. Norton went back to the Coliseum. But Kenny held an ace. He always gave Ali a hard time. It defined his career.

Funny though. When Ali fought Norton again for the big time,my feeling was San Diegans weren't behind him anymore. If you're an athlete from this city,everyone will jump off the band wagon if you lose one. No such thing as hero worship here.

The above story provides the absolute truth reagrding the bout. None of those who wrote from ringside captured what really happened. They wrote of punches and physical actions, not what really led to the conclusion of the contest. It went far beyond Foreman's strength, more about Norton's weakness and shortcomings, and Roger writes it clearer than anybody did for Ring Mag, or the newspapers, except maybe the great Jim Murray of the L.A. Times. The above tells what those of us who know boxing knew, the real facts about why one wins or loses. Thanks Rog, great story. Your description of Ken Norton was right on.

As for the San Diego fans, it's the same in Los Angeles, we have lots of choices and are loyal to no athlete or team. If they win, we love them. Lose? We don't need 'em. In Southern Cal we are not like Green Bay, where the only thing in town is the Packers. You can't afford to lose in Southern Cal, it's just the way it is. We understand winning and losing, most fans don't.

-Rick

Thanks Rick
San Diego is one of the largest cities in America,but as far as pro sports,forget it. We had two NBA teams here that left because of non interest. Go to a Charger game and you'll see as many fans wearing the opponent's jersey. The Padres. Everybody manages to get there by the 3rd inning,then go home in the 7th. We've always had tightwad owners, with the exception Ray Kroc of who owned the baseball team. Then when he died,his wife unloaded it. In the early 60's Conrad Hilton spent his dough on good draft picks with the Chargers. But when I think of all the athletes who left San Diego teams and went on to have signature careers elsewhere,the list gets long. Dave Winfield,Ozzie Smith,and Roberto Alomar from the Pads. Fred Dean,John Jefferson,and Drew Brees from the Chargers. Both basketball teams.

There was a small enthusiastic group that went to the Coliseum to watch boxing. But when you think about it,any arena that had a weekly card would have rabid fans. Boxing isn't exactly like watching golf. Everyone being quiet while the guy putts.

Oh,by the way. They had the U.S. Open here. It was a sell out everyday. San Diego loves golf. Tells you something about the mind set of this town.

Saturday Night in San Diego . . .

It was April, 1969. In Los Angeles, the Southern Pacific A.A.U. championships were held at the El Monte Legion Stadium. I won the flyweight title that night, my friend and stablemate Kit Boursse' won the heavyweight title, and there were eight others who'd win championships plus a berth on the L.A. team that would travel down to San Diego for the Nationals.

Our Light-heavy was Mike Quarry, who'd won over another fighter. The entire Quarry Family was in the house, and so was the family of Mike's opponent, James Dick. The fight was close and the two families had words at ringside, words became blows, the women started to fight and all Hell broke loose. I was in the ring with the winners, for the team photo, for once, inside the ring was the safest place in the house. Frank Baltazar Sr. was there, saw the women pulling hair and biting, jumped into the ring to escape. The riot squad came, broke up the fight, arrested a few Quarrys and a few Dick's (No pun intended). Mike Quarry would skip the AAU National tournament the following week in San Diego, he'd turn pro and fight James Dick in a four rounder on the undercard of the the first Jose Napoles-Curtis Cokes title fight, the night Mantequilla won the championship. Petey Vital, our lightweight, would also skip the trip to San Diego, turn pro, and fight on the big title card a the Forum.

The rest of us would head to San Diego the following week. More than 400 boxers from around The United States would take up residence on S.D.'s Hotel Circle, "The Le Baron Hotel". We arrived on tuesday and the eliminations began on Wedensday and would end with the finals which were held on saturday.

Some good fighters in the tournament, the best a defending champ from the Army, Pvt. Armando Muniz. Mando Muniz was one of the L.A. guys. He'd be on our team if not for his hitch in the Army. Mando would win the Nat'l title for the second straight year, as well as "Outstanding Boxer of the Tournament", having just fought in the Olympics a few months earlier. A scared heavyweight from Cincinnati, Earnie Shavers, would blast out heavily favored James Elder in less than a minute. I'd win a close one in the opening round, and then suffer the only TKO loss of my amateur career, losing to 23-year-old Caleb Long of the Army. Long had 173 fights under his belt and dropped me twice in the opening round. Today they would have stopped the fight. But I survived and came back to fight even in the second. But the third, took a right hand high on the head. Wasn't hurt but the punch knocked me off balance and the ref stopped it. I could have lasted the last minute easy, but I'd have lost. I got my ass-kicked, no doubt and that guy could hit harder than any amateur had ever hit me. Caleb Long stopped all but one on his way to the Nat'l title that year.

None of our guys went past the quarter finals. We had two heavyweights, my friend Boursse' and a guy who'd won the Nat'l Golden Gloves title the previous month, Walter Moore. Moore was intimidated by Jim Elder, said he had "the shits" and never competed. Boursse', like me won one, lost his second by decision to hard-hitting Shavers.

The tournament was the first boxing competition to be held at the brand new San Diego International Sports Arena. It ended on Saturday evening. The L.A. boys all watched the finals. I sat next to my heavyweight buddy and Rudy "Porky" Acuna, Ruben Navarro's nephew. We were most interested in our buddy Armando Muniz. And we saw a future heavyweight contender gain his first notice, scoring a one round upset.

When we got back to the Hotel, the parties were already starting. It was saturday night in San Diego with a hotel full of fighters who were suddenly free to play. I was 17. What happened? I'll fill you in a little later. Some crazy moments for some.

-Rick Farris

Hi Frank,

What a great day I'm having. Opened my mailbox to find the Big Fights book, a Dempesy book [ signed by Dempsey himself]
and my IBRO journal. Christmas all over.

Here's a story from the book. If you feel they don't fit the thread let me know. Don't want to slow you guys down.

Kevin
--------------------------------------------

Hype Igoe’s Ringside
Story of the
Leonard- Mitchell battle


Benny Leonard at his Peak

There was never a more colorful or knowing chronicler
of fistiana then Hype Igoe. He is one of that now rapidly
disappearing breed of sports reporters who could both ably
write and draw pictures of fights: before the newscamera,
soundphoto, radio and television, they were both the eyes and
ears of the followers of pugilisim. Near the end of his career,
he sorted out his recollections ot the literally thousands of bouts
he had seen, and wrote for the NY Journal- American, stories
of the 20 he remembered as the greatest. Near the top of his list
he placed the fight between Benny Leonard and Ritchie Mitchell,
January 14, 1921.

The lightweight division was fifty years old when Benny Leonard
Entered its confines [135-147 lbs], destined to make himself an
Immortal of the ring. He began his professional career in 1912
When 16, and within 5 years was on top. The story of how he won the title
In 1917, is told in the proceeding pages.

Leonard was a popular champion, and he knew his business. His victories
Read like a who’s who of fistiana-Lew tendler, Charlie White, Johnny Dundee,
Johnny Kilbane, Willie Ritchie. He retired in 1924, the only lightweight to
Wear the champion crown so long. It was of the Leonard at his peak, matched
With a worthy opponent, that Igoe wrote the story which begins at the top of the next
Page:


France had been devastated, cruelly, In the first World War and Miss Morgan headed a committee for the relief of that country. Miss ANN Morgan was persuaded to put on a great fistic carnival in old Madison Square Garden with a lightweight
title match between Benny Leonard and Ritchie Mitchell as the banner attraction.

It was a grand and glorious evening, as dear old Clare Briggs would have remarked.
It was a night which almost saw Leonard knocked out in the first round.

The Old House That Standford White Desigined was packed to the lofty rafters
From which “Speedy” used to leap into a tank of water far below at Sportsman’s
Shows.

Miss Morgan and her fair company sat in a box directly in front
of the ring and it is my belief that It was the first fistic- encounter
upon which she had ever gazed. She and the ladies with her saw the savage side of the Manly Art of Self Defense if ever It has been on parade.

Leonard was as full of fight as a badger and he had a playmate
in Mitchell, a fellow who was deadly so long as he could prop a
stance. Leonard, knowing this, and knowing, too, that a chunk of
his purse was to go into Miss Morgan's great fund, decided that
there 'was no particular gain in permitting any red-lantern man to
hang around too long. Leonard promptly floored Mitchell three times in the first round and, looking toward Miss Morgan's place among the spectators, I saw
all of them pecking at the drama through the fingers of both hands.

Mitchell was down! He was up! He was down and up, was. flattened
for the third time he rose, staggering crazily, as if someone
had blown off his head with a double-barrel shotgun. Leonard
moved toward him with the sure tread of a catamount. It was
hateful to look up that which he was certain to accomplish — a
knockout hung on a chin, so hopelessly unguarded! Shameful!

I know now and so does Leonard that the greater part of
Mitchell's drunken unsteadiness was sham, a trick by which he
hoped to catch the champion unawares and blast him off his
throne with a single, well timed blow.

Mitchell had been driven into a corner, his back to Miss Morgan
and her ladles. Then Ritchie's fine torso fairly belched blows. BANG,!!!
That one to the "button" was a honey and under its impact Leonard
went down, crashing like a tipped-over china closet. The
punch seemed to rend from each socket, every bone In his body. A
great wave of success had suddenly turned, to engulf him. He
came down in the center of the ring and, for Benny, It was- No
Man's Land- for the better part of ten seconds!

Slowly Leonard's fine fighting brain began to clear, somewhat.
He turned from his squatting position on the canvas and tried to
smile assurance to pop-eyed Billy Gibson, his manager and chief
second. Benny's eyes were tacking along one course, his mouth
and his smile another, his brain swinging gaily on a flying trapeze!
Slowly he got up like a creaky old Civil War veteran, paying his respects
to the playing of UK- National Anthem! Benny seemed to
have aged a hundred yours In a hundred seconds.

Oh, the audacious cunning of a great champion! He faced Mitchell, a tiny trickle of blood oozing from each corner of his mouth. He was 20 feet distant. Then he did a wonderfully brazen thing. Grinning toward the far corner where the tormentor
stood awaiting his arising, Leonard nonchalantly reached out
with both gloved hands and beckoned for Mitchell to walk buck
Into the glove duell If Leonard at that second had attempted a
stride toward Mitchell, he would have collapsed again!

It is astounding that Leonard could have lifted himself out of
oblivion by the bootstraps. He recuperated swiftly. Why, there he
went not waiting for Mitchell walking right into Ritchie's teeth.
Gradually Benny's super-lighting intellect reached absolute normalcy.
He was "seeing" again and Mitchell sensed It because he
knew the sort of bird-of-prey which faced him, mincing, mincing
forward for the delayed kill. There was so little to be gained in
retreat yet. Ritchie had to back off.

Leonard caught up with him in the sixth, devilish, designing, as
much pity In his heart now, as you'd have found in the claws of
a wounded grizzly. He drove disIntergratlngly—Boom!!!

Mitchell came tumbling down as if from the top of the Palisades.
If Leonard had crashed, this unhappy boy seemed to hit the deck, flying all directions, like Mardl Gras confetti. He was done for.
Devastated France had been honored in a manner which even Miss
Morgan could not have explained to her French committee.
That white-haired lady, her companions, all of us, had seen
one of the most glorious ring battles ever written into the cold
pages of ring history!

…

Leonard stepped out of the light weight class in 1922 when he fought Jack Britton
For the welterweight title. Britton was down and out and Leonard would certainly
Have won the crown but he hit Britton while the champ was down on his knees
And was disqualified.
Leonard was out from the ring from 1924-1931 when bad luck
Investments induced him to attempt a comeback in 1931. His efforts were short
Lived; he suffered a six round defeat at the hands of Jimmy McLarnin. The spirit
Was there but the referee was forced to stop the fight to prevent Leonard
From taking a worse beating than had already been administered.
Leonard died while refereeing a prize fight in 1948

Some years after Igoe wrote the forgoing story, Frank Graham provided
An illuminating footnote to it He chronicled in the Ny American of June 28 1949

Time is the essence in most sports, of course, but in none more so than prize fighting. Ritchie Mitchell, who died in Milwaukee the other day, like to say; “I
Was within one second of the lightweight championship of the world. I had Benny
Leonard on the floor but he got up at the count of nine”.

And so he had, in a fight held in the Old Madison Square Garden 1921. It was a memorable occasion for more reasons than one. The bout was promoted by Tex Rickard but it was sponsored by Miss Anne Morgan and all the profits drived from ti were donated to a fund being raised for the rebuilding of French towns shattered by german guns in world war I. never before had two men battered each otherin the presence of such a highly social gathering and for the first time that night a Morgan
Or an Astor or Vanderbuit could wear a top hat into the old arena without the gallery
Gods whistling at him and shouting:

CAB! CAB!

Also the affair was notable because it was the only time that Al Smith was ever seen at ringside. For one who grew up on the east side and, at least in his youth, was on friendly terms with all the toughnecks in the neighborhood, he no use for prize fighting and actually had been hoodwinked by Jimmy Walker in to signing a bill that
Legalized the sport in this state. Only the importance of Miss Morgan caused him as Governor, to lend his presence. When he got there he was unhappy, and although the first round round was one of the most thrilling ever fought in this town and Leonard gave one of his greatest performances, Al went all the way shaking his head.
He couldn’t understand, he said, why everybody was so excited.
Leonard, who for some reason didn’t like Mitchell, tried to knock him out in the first round and very nearly succeeded in doing so. He knocked Ritchie down three times as the rule under which a fighter scoring a knockdown must go to a neutral corner never was enforced in those days, he stood over his fallen opponent taunting lhim.

Get up you yellow------ he said. Get up and I’ll knock you down again.
Three times Mitchell, who was strictly a game guy, got up. He reeled on rubber legs
The last time but as Leonard moved into finish him, he saw an opening for a left hook. The punch hit Leonard squarely on the chin and benny hit the canvas so hard he bounced, the settled in a sitting position.

In his corner Billy Gibson hi manager, and Mannie Seamon, his trainer-the same who trained Joe Louis- screamed at him ;
STAY DOWN! STAY DOWN! TAKE THE COUNT!
Gibson’s face was ashen. He was in worse shape than Leonard. But at six you could see Leonard knew where he was. At eight he was nodding to his corner to show he was all rightand understood what they were telling him. At nine he was up-and Mitchell’s chance to win the lightweight championship was gone.
Benny stalled through the rest of the round but whenthe bell rang for the second round he was himself again. Now, coldly mercilessly, he went to work on Mitchell.
With the possible exception of the night of his second fight with Lew Tendler, he never was better than he was that night in the old Garden, for Mitchell was a first rate fighter and yet he was out-classed, and Leonard knocked him out in the sixth round.
They fought once before these two. That was in april of 1917, five weeks before Leonard won the championship form Freddie Welsh. Gibson had two stories about that fight.
The fight was in Milwaukee, where they thought Mitchell was the greatest fighter in the world and Leonard would be a soft touch for him. On the train, which was due in Milwaukee about noon on the day of the fight, Leonard complained of a upset stomach shortly after breakfast and the nearer they got to Milwaukee, the worse he felt. He was lying on the couch of their drawing room and, looking up at Gibson said:
I feel terrible, Gib. I can’t go ten rounds against this fellow tonight… I’ll have to knock him out.
That, Gib used to say, telling of it, was a champion talking. He didn’t have the title yet but who could stop a guy who thought like that---- where the average fighter would be begging for a postponement.
And, of course a guy who thought like that had to win on a knock out. Which benny did in the seventh round. Yet because of and episode that afternoon Gibson wasn’t completely happy.
It seems that that afternoon, Gibson was in a saloon that was the headquarters of the local sports and one of them announced he would give 2 to one money on Mitchell and even money Mitchell knock Leonard out. Gibson unaccompanied and a stranger in the joint asked:
For how much, friend?
How much do you want? The fellow asked.
Five and five, Gib said.
You mean five hundred?
No, Gib said. Imean five thousand.
You got it, the fellow said, pulling out a roll.
Of course Gib didn’t have that kind of money with him. But he was sure he could get it from the promoter, or from and one of a half dozen gamblers around town who knew him.
Just a moment, he said, and went to a telephone. Ten minutes he came back harried and sweating. He couldn’t get in touch with the promoter or any one who knew him.
Look, he said to the local sport. I’m Billy Gibson, Leonards manager.
I’m not interested in who you are. The fellow said. I just want to see your money. Here’s mine.
He threw $15000 on the bar.
But, GIB said, I don’t haven’t got ten grand with me. If you will ge me an hour or so, I’ll----
The fellow picked his money off the bar and put it away.
I thought so, he said, another of those loud talking , flourflushing, New Yorkers,
Telling the story, Gib would say:
And with that he walked out with my $15,000 dollars!

iskigoe wrote:Hi Frank,

What a great day I'm having. Opened my mailbox to find the Big Fights book, a Dempesy book [ signed by Dempsey himself]
and my IBRO journal. Christmas all over.

Here's a story from the book. If you feel they don't fit the thread let me know. Don't want to slow you guys down.

Kevin
--------------------------------------------

Hype Igoe’s Ringside
Story of the
Leonard- Mitchell battle


Benny Leonard at his Peak

There was never a more colorful or knowing chronicler
of fistiana then Hype Igoe. He is one of that now rapidly
disappearing breed of sports reporters who could both ably
write and draw pictures of fights: before the newscamera,
soundphoto, radio and television, they were both the eyes and
ears of the followers of pugilisim. Near the end of his career,
he sorted out his recollections ot the literally thousands of bouts
he had seen, and wrote for the NY Journal- American, stories
of the 20 he remembered as the greatest. Near the top of his list
he placed the fight between Benny Leonard and Ritchie Mitchell,
January 14, 1921.

The lightweight division was fifty years old when Benny Leonard
Entered its confines [135-147 lbs], destined to make himself an
Immortal of the ring. He began his professional career in 1912
When 16, and within 5 years was on top. The story of how he won the title
In 1917, is told in the proceeding pages.

Leonard was a popular champion, and he knew his business. His victories
Read like a who’s who of fistiana-Lew tendler, Charlie White, Johnny Dundee,
Johnny Kilbane, Willie Ritchie. He retired in 1924, the only lightweight to
Wear the champion crown so long. It was of the Leonard at his peak, matched
With a worthy opponent, that Igoe wrote the story which begins at the top of the next
Page:


France had been devastated, cruelly, In the first World War and Miss Morgan headed a committee for the relief of that country. Miss ANN Morgan was persuaded to put on a great fistic carnival in old Madison Square Garden with a lightweight
title match between Benny Leonard and Ritchie Mitchell as the banner attraction.

It was a grand and glorious evening, as dear old Clare Briggs would have remarked.
It was a night which almost saw Leonard knocked out in the first round.

The Old House That Standford White Desigined was packed to the lofty rafters
From which “Speedy” used to leap into a tank of water far below at Sportsman’s
Shows.

Miss Morgan and her fair company sat in a box directly in front
of the ring and it is my belief that It was the first fistic- encounter
upon which she had ever gazed. She and the ladies with her saw the savage side of the Manly Art of Self Defense if ever It has been on parade.

Leonard was as full of fight as a badger and he had a playmate
in Mitchell, a fellow who was deadly so long as he could prop a
stance. Leonard, knowing this, and knowing, too, that a chunk of
his purse was to go into Miss Morgan's great fund, decided that
there 'was no particular gain in permitting any red-lantern man to
hang around too long. Leonard promptly floored Mitchell three times in the first round and, looking toward Miss Morgan's place among the spectators, I saw
all of them pecking at the drama through the fingers of both hands.

Mitchell was down! He was up! He was down and up, was. flattened
for the third time he rose, staggering crazily, as if someone
had blown off his head with a double-barrel shotgun. Leonard
moved toward him with the sure tread of a catamount. It was
hateful to look up that which he was certain to accomplish — a
knockout hung on a chin, so hopelessly unguarded! Shameful!

I know now and so does Leonard that the greater part of
Mitchell's drunken unsteadiness was sham, a trick by which he
hoped to catch the champion unawares and blast him off his
throne with a single, well timed blow.

Mitchell had been driven into a corner, his back to Miss Morgan
and her ladles. Then Ritchie's fine torso fairly belched blows. BANG,!!!
That one to the "button" was a honey and under its impact Leonard
went down, crashing like a tipped-over china closet. The
punch seemed to rend from each socket, every bone In his body. A
great wave of success had suddenly turned, to engulf him. He
came down in the center of the ring and, for Benny, It was- No
Man's Land- for the better part of ten seconds!

Slowly Leonard's fine fighting brain began to clear, somewhat.
He turned from his squatting position on the canvas and tried to
smile assurance to pop-eyed Billy Gibson, his manager and chief
second. Benny's eyes were tacking along one course, his mouth
and his smile another, his brain swinging gaily on a flying trapeze!
Slowly he got up like a creaky old Civil War veteran, paying his respects
to the playing of UK- National Anthem! Benny seemed to
have aged a hundred yours In a hundred seconds.

Oh, the audacious cunning of a great champion! He faced Mitchell, a tiny trickle of blood oozing from each corner of his mouth. He was 20 feet distant. Then he did a wonderfully brazen thing. Grinning toward the far corner where the tormentor
stood awaiting his arising, Leonard nonchalantly reached out
with both gloved hands and beckoned for Mitchell to walk buck
Into the glove duell If Leonard at that second had attempted a
stride toward Mitchell, he would have collapsed again!

It is astounding that Leonard could have lifted himself out of
oblivion by the bootstraps. He recuperated swiftly. Why, there he
went not waiting for Mitchell walking right into Ritchie's teeth.
Gradually Benny's super-lighting intellect reached absolute normalcy.
He was "seeing" again and Mitchell sensed It because he
knew the sort of bird-of-prey which faced him, mincing, mincing
forward for the delayed kill. There was so little to be gained in
retreat yet. Ritchie had to back off.

Leonard caught up with him in the sixth, devilish, designing, as
much pity In his heart now, as you'd have found in the claws of
a wounded grizzly. He drove disIntergratlngly—Boom!!!

Mitchell came tumbling down as if from the top of the Palisades.
If Leonard had crashed, this unhappy boy seemed to hit the deck, flying all directions, like Mardl Gras confetti. He was done for.
Devastated France had been honored in a manner which even Miss
Morgan could not have explained to her French committee.
That white-haired lady, her companions, all of us, had seen
one of the most glorious ring battles ever written into the cold
pages of ring history!

…

Leonard stepped out of the light weight class in 1922 when he fought Jack Britton
For the welterweight title. Britton was down and out and Leonard would certainly
Have won the crown but he hit Britton while the champ was down on his knees
And was disqualified.
Leonard was out from the ring from 1924-1931 when bad luck
Investments induced him to attempt a comeback in 1931. His efforts were short
Lived; he suffered a six round defeat at the hands of Jimmy McLarnin. The spirit
Was there but the referee was forced to stop the fight to prevent Leonard
From taking a worse beating than had already been administered.
Leonard died while refereeing a prize fight in 1948

Some years after Igoe wrote the forgoing story, Frank Graham provided
An illuminating footnote to it He chronicled in the Ny American of June 28 1949

Time is the essence in most sports, of course, but in none more so than prize fighting. Ritchie Mitchell, who died in Milwaukee the other day, like to say; “I
Was within one second of the lightweight championship of the world. I had Benny
Leonard on the floor but he got up at the count of nine”.

And so he had, in a fight held in the Old Madison Square Garden 1921. It was a memorable occasion for more reasons than one. The bout was promoted by Tex Rickard but it was sponsored by Miss Anne Morgan and all the profits drived from ti were donated to a fund being raised for the rebuilding of French towns shattered by german guns in world war I. never before had two men battered each otherin the presence of such a highly social gathering and for the first time that night a Morgan
Or an Astor or Vanderbuit could wear a top hat into the old arena without the gallery
Gods whistling at him and shouting:

CAB! CAB!

Also the affair was notable because it was the only time that Al Smith was ever seen at ringside. For one who grew up on the east side and, at least in his youth, was on friendly terms with all the toughnecks in the neighborhood, he no use for prize fighting and actually had been hoodwinked by Jimmy Walker in to signing a bill that
Legalized the sport in this state. Only the importance of Miss Morgan caused him as Governor, to lend his presence. When he got there he was unhappy, and although the first round round was one of the most thrilling ever fought in this town and Leonard gave one of his greatest performances, Al went all the way shaking his head.
He couldn’t understand, he said, why everybody was so excited.
Leonard, who for some reason didn’t like Mitchell, tried to knock him out in the first round and very nearly succeeded in doing so. He knocked Ritchie down three times as the rule under which a fighter scoring a knockdown must go to a neutral corner never was enforced in those days, he stood over his fallen opponent taunting lhim.

Get up you yellow------ he said. Get up and I’ll knock you down again.
Three times Mitchell, who was strictly a game guy, got up. He reeled on rubber legs
The last time but as Leonard moved into finish him, he saw an opening for a left hook. The punch hit Leonard squarely on the chin and benny hit the canvas so hard he bounced, the settled in a sitting position.

In his corner Billy Gibson hi manager, and Mannie Seamon, his trainer-the same who trained Joe Louis- screamed at him ;
STAY DOWN! STAY DOWN! TAKE THE COUNT!
Gibson’s face was ashen. He was in worse shape than Leonard. But at six you could see Leonard knew where he was. At eight he was nodding to his corner to show he was all rightand understood what they were telling him. At nine he was up-and Mitchell’s chance to win the lightweight championship was gone.
Benny stalled through the rest of the round but whenthe bell rang for the second round he was himself again. Now, coldly mercilessly, he went to work on Mitchell.
With the possible exception of the night of his second fight with Lew Tendler, he never was better than he was that night in the old Garden, for Mitchell was a first rate fighter and yet he was out-classed, and Leonard knocked him out in the sixth round.
They fought once before these two. That was in april of 1917, five weeks before Leonard won the championship form Freddie Welsh. Gibson had two stories about that fight.
The fight was in Milwaukee, where they thought Mitchell was the greatest fighter in the world and Leonard would be a soft touch for him. On the train, which was due in Milwaukee about noon on the day of the fight, Leonard complained of a upset stomach shortly after breakfast and the nearer they got to Milwaukee, the worse he felt. He was lying on the couch of their drawing room and, looking up at Gibson said:
I feel terrible, Gib. I can’t go ten rounds against this fellow tonight… I’ll have to knock him out.
That, Gib used to say, telling of it, was a champion talking. He didn’t have the title yet but who could stop a guy who thought like that---- where the average fighter would be begging for a postponement.
And, of course a guy who thought like that had to win on a knock out. Which benny did in the seventh round. Yet because of and episode that afternoon Gibson wasn’t completely happy.
It seems that that afternoon, Gibson was in a saloon that was the headquarters of the local sports and one of them announced he would give 2 to one money on Mitchell and even money Mitchell knock Leonard out. Gibson unaccompanied and a stranger in the joint asked:
For how much, friend?
How much do you want? The fellow asked.
Five and five, Gib said.
You mean five hundred?
No, Gib said. Imean five thousand.
You got it, the fellow said, pulling out a roll.
Of course Gib didn’t have that kind of money with him. But he was sure he could get it from the promoter, or from and one of a half dozen gamblers around town who knew him.
Just a moment, he said, and went to a telephone. Ten minutes he came back harried and sweating. He couldn’t get in touch with the promoter or any one who knew him.
Look, he said to the local sport. I’m Billy Gibson, Leonards manager.
I’m not interested in who you are. The fellow said. I just want to see your money. Here’s mine.
He threw $15000 on the bar.
But, GIB said, I don’t haven’t got ten grand with me. If you will ge me an hour or so, I’ll----
The fellow picked his money off the bar and put it away.
I thought so, he said, another of those loud talking , flourflushing, New Yorkers,
Telling the story, Gib would say:
And with that he walked out with my $15,000 dollars!

Kevin . . . Thank you! Great info and please don't worry about it being "on topic", it's all connected. I appreciate this vey much.

-Rick Farris

THE CHAMP

Remember fellas' when Marvin Johnson took the mike from Tom Kelley to say a few words after being inducted into the Hall Of Fame? He took that mike all right. Tom Kelley who was runnin' things wasn't anymore. Johnson didn't want to prove how tough he was. He didn't want to grandstand. He wanted to talk about his wife.

So what did he say? Basically she stuck with him through thick and thin. Her loyalty was his faith. I think it surprised all of us. Good for you Johnson. You probably erred plenty along the way. Being a Champ as a young man has its temptations. She never wavered. Good for you Marvin.

Does that make things right? Does it even things out? To the objective,no. But your wife understands. No one is perfect. She's not,but you know you're a far cut below her. You wanted to tell the world that night. I heard you loud and clear.

I'm the same way. I'm no Champ,but I don't think that's the point. I want to tell the world too. I can't help myself.

My back hurts. I asked my wife earlier today about turning over the mattress. It might help my aching back.I'd do it . I just got back from my sisters. I went to the bedroom. My wife had turned the mattress over. She came in a few minutes later to tell me she had turned it over,but I knew already. It was in the back of my mind when I was at my sisters'.

I'm like you Marvin. I take it for granted a lot. She lets me do what I want so I can feel smart. I know who's smarter. I want to tell the world too. It's not even close to what she deserves.