BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:I'm just shooting from the hip. I'm not even an mma technical fanboy but somehow the idea of that lanky jerky fornicator being better than the smooth, polished, under-control GSP on a p4p level, when GSP was just as dominant a champ in his own way, somehow offends me. It may be the three glasses of wine, I didn't think I harboured any specific emotions about the relative p4p status of GSP in mma history until now. Its strong poo I'm smoking too, to be fair.

GSP is definitely a top P4P fight. And many would agree with you. However, there have been a few things that irriatated me about him. After the Serra loss, he became an extremely cautious, safety first fighter. Kudos to him, but not my cup of tea. He was very cerebral, and was so well rounded that he would exploit his opponents weaknesses. So, if there was a good striker in front of him, he would wrestle fornicate them to death for 5 rounds. A great wrestler in front of him, he'd jab and move them to death for 5 full rounds. Then when he came against a solid striker/wrestler, he lost.... not technically lost, but dang man. Hendricks won that fight pretty clearly 4-1 in mine and most views. Jones has yet to show that he can be submitted, KOed, or plain out decisioned.... something GSP has been the victim of all. (Sure you can argue that he beat Hendricks, but it's not a very good one)

I believe that GSPs and Aldo's competition was stronger than Jones, who admittedly fought the bigger names but I don't believe those guys werent as good as the WWs or FWs around that GSP and Aldo defended against.

I'd pick Jones over GSP. All just opinions obviously and we'll never know but Jones is much more viscous and uses a more varied striking attack while still being a good enough wrestler to not let GSP man handle him. GSP would point score strike with wrestlers (the jab-fest v Kos) or dry hump strikers (Dan Hardy, although he was close to 2 subs to be fair) whereas Jones goes toe to toe and tests his striking against the best strikers (Shogun, Machida, Belfort etc) and always attempts to out wrestle the wrestlers (DC, Rashad, Bader). He wants to beat you at you're game. I think he'd be hell for GSP.

Impractical Poster wrote:I never said he was untouchable, I stated that I don't envision anyone beating him.

I'd love to know how you distinguish between those two.

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:I never said he was untouchable, I stated that I don't envision anyone beating him.

I'd love to know how you distinguish between those two.

I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

danamba7 wrote:I'd pick Jones over GSP. All just opinions obviously and we'll never know but Jones is much more viscous and uses a more varied striking attack while still being a good enough wrestler to not let GSP man handle him. GSP would point score strike with wrestlers (the jab-fest v Kos) or dry hump strikers (Dan Hardy, although he was close to 2 subs to be fair) whereas Jones goes toe to toe and tests his striking against the best strikers (Shogun, Machida, Belfort etc) and always attempts to out wrestle the wrestlers (DC, Rashad, Bader). He wants to beat you at you're game. I think he'd be hell for GSP.

That's exactly how I see it. It got to a point where GSP was just trying to hold on to his championship. Jones fought like he was trying to win a championship every time he fought.

p4p1 wrote:I believe that GSPs and Aldo's competition was stronger than Jones, who admittedly fought the bigger names but I don't believe those guys werent as good as the WWs or FWs around that GSP and Aldo defended against.

Extremely debatable.

Gsp would have owned Silva.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Gsp would have owned Silva.

GSP vs. Silva

OR

USADA GSP vs. USADA Silva

The most interesting fantasy match up, stylistic wise, between 2 ATGs would be Aldo V Jones in my humble opinion.

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:I never said he was untouchable, I stated that I don't envision anyone beating him.

I'd love to know how you distinguish between those two.

I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

GSP.

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: I'd love to know how you distinguish between those two.

I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

GSP.

Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

danamba7 wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

GSP.

Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

Deserter wrote:

danamba7 wrote:

Deserter wrote: GSP.

Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

OK fair enough, so you think he'd edge it on points? I personally could only see one of them getting stopped and that's GSP.

danamba7 wrote:

Deserter wrote:

danamba7 wrote:
Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

OK fair enough, so you think he'd edge it on points? I personally could only see one of them getting stopped and that's GSP.

Yep, that's fair enough.

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: I'd love to know how you distinguish between those two.

I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

GSP.

Interesting. I would personally pick GSP getting stopped if they ever fought. Seeing how Hendricks handled GSP gives me the impression that Jones would manhandle him. I personally don't see it as a fair fight just for the fact of Jones' size.

Deserter wrote:

danamba7 wrote:

Deserter wrote: GSP.

Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

I'd be interested in seeing how GSP would neutralize Jones' strengths. While he is athletic, I give Jones an edge there. And I really haven't noticed any outstanding adaptability within a fight with GSP. I've seen him come back better in rematches. And I've seen him follow strict game plans. But I haven't really seen him adapt so much to opponents during a fight in the sense that a fighter like Mayweather has shown the ability to do.

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I consider untouchable as someone who is just that. Someone who dominates every fight. No one is untouchable. Silva wasn't untouchable in either of the Sonnen fights, yet he won both. Anyhow, I stick by what I originally said. It's fine if you don't feel the same way. Who do you have beating Jones?

GSP.

Interesting. I would personally pick GSP getting stopped if they ever fought. Seeing how Hendricks handled GSP gives me the impression that Jones would manhandle him. I personally don't see it as a fair fight just for the fact of Jones' size.

I thought we were talking about a mythical p4p match-up, in which case they'd be the same size?

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote:

danamba7 wrote:
Obviously no one is wrong in this debate but how would you see GSP beating him?

My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

I'd be interested in seeing how GSP would neutralize Jones' strengths. While he is athletic, I give Jones an edge there. And I really haven't noticed any outstanding adaptability within a fight with GSP. I've seen him come back better in rematches. And I've seen him follow strict game plans. But I haven't really seen him adapt so much to opponents during a fight in the sense that a fighter like Mayweather has shown the ability to do.

His adaptability has been in the prep work e.g. way he used the jab against Koscheck - the fact he hasn't had to adapt mid-fight is in part indicative of how how at his peak he was so utterly dominant he wasn't required to do so. For what it's worth, exactly the same accusation could be levelled at Jones - he slugged it out to get the W against Gus, but didn't show adaptability mid-fight. I also think the calibre of Jones' opposition has been weaker than GSP's.

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: GSP.

Interesting. I would personally pick GSP getting stopped if they ever fought. Seeing how Hendricks handled GSP gives me the impression that Jones would manhandle him. I personally don't see it as a fair fight just for the fact of Jones' size.

I thought we were talking about a mythical p4p match-up, in which case they'd be the same size?

My bad

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: My view isn't driven so much by a specific game plan for GSP, but more from the fact I've never seen a fighter better at neutralizing an opponent's strengths. His all-round athleticism coupled with his adaptability would give him the edge IMO.

I'd be interested in seeing how GSP would neutralize Jones' strengths. While he is athletic, I give Jones an edge there. And I really haven't noticed any outstanding adaptability within a fight with GSP. I've seen him come back better in rematches. And I've seen him follow strict game plans. But I haven't really seen him adapt so much to opponents during a fight in the sense that a fighter like Mayweather has shown the ability to do.

His adaptability has been in the prep work e.g. way he used the jab against Koscheck - the fact he hasn't had to adapt mid-fight is in part indicative of how how at his peak he was so utterly dominant he wasn't required to do so. For what it's worth, exactly the same accusation could be levelled at Jones - he slugged it out to get the W against Gus, but didn't show adaptability mid-fight. I also think the calibre of Jones' opposition has been weaker than GSP's.

I don't believe Jones' opposition was weaker than GSP's at all. IMO, Jones' run from 2011 to present has been on par, or possibly better than GSP's. Plus his performances were better overall. Anyhow, I don't care to argue about the competition of these guys because with these two it will get down to splitting hairs.

And I didn't mention anything about Jones' adaptability. But since you mention it, he showed it against Machida and Cormier within the fights.

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I'd be interested in seeing how GSP would neutralize Jones' strengths. While he is athletic, I give Jones an edge there. And I really haven't noticed any outstanding adaptability within a fight with GSP. I've seen him come back better in rematches. And I've seen him follow strict game plans. But I haven't really seen him adapt so much to opponents during a fight in the sense that a fighter like Mayweather has shown the ability to do.

His adaptability has been in the prep work e.g. way he used the jab against Koscheck - the fact he hasn't had to adapt mid-fight is in part indicative of how how at his peak he was so utterly dominant he wasn't required to do so. For what it's worth, exactly the same accusation could be levelled at Jones - he slugged it out to get the W against Gus, but didn't show adaptability mid-fight. I also think the calibre of Jones' opposition has been weaker than GSP's.

I don't believe Jones' opposition was weaker than GSP's at all. IMO, Jones' run from 2011 to present has been on par, or possibly better than GSP's. Plus his performances were better overall. Anyhow, I don't care to argue about the competition of these guys because with these two it will get down to splitting hairs.

And I didn't mention anything about Jones' adaptability. But since you mention it, he showed it against Machida and Cormier within the fights.

That Machida stoppage was scary. Cut him badly then chokes him out leaving the eyes rolled in the back of his head. Thought he'd killed him for a second!

Deserter wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: GSP.

Interesting. I would personally pick GSP getting stopped if they ever fought. Seeing how Hendricks handled GSP gives me the impression that Jones would manhandle him. I personally don't see it as a fair fight just for the fact of Jones' size.

I thought we were talking about a mythical p4p match-up, in which case they'd be the same size?

same weight yes but i was assuming even a 'scaled-up' GSP would have the smaller frame and wouldn't have JBJ's long levers. FWIW, anyway. lol.

danamba7 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Deserter wrote: His adaptability has been in the prep work e.g. way he used the jab against Koscheck - the fact he hasn't had to adapt mid-fight is in part indicative of how how at his peak he was so utterly dominant he wasn't required to do so. For what it's worth, exactly the same accusation could be levelled at Jones - he slugged it out to get the W against Gus, but didn't show adaptability mid-fight. I also think the calibre of Jones' opposition has been weaker than GSP's.

I don't believe Jones' opposition was weaker than GSP's at all. IMO, Jones' run from 2011 to present has been on par, or possibly better than GSP's. Plus his performances were better overall. Anyhow, I don't care to argue about the competition of these guys because with these two it will get down to splitting hairs.

And I didn't mention anything about Jones' adaptability. But since you mention it, he showed it against Machida and Cormier within the fights.

That Machida stoppage was scary. Cut him badly then chokes him out leaving the eyes rolled in the back of his head. Thought he'd killed him for a second!

Yeah it was scary. He had to figure Machida out a bit in the first, and took care of business after that.

I understand it's unlikely, but I'm hoping for a replay of Hendo/Bisping I.