BoxRec

King Geedorah wrote:

arlovski wrote:Just watching a few rounds again, he was very very good on the inside! His 'mauling' was educated i thought and perfect against a rangy, physically strong opponent like Carl -
he controlled Froch's arms, created space to throw his own shots, tucked up and stayed in the pocket hitting Carl with loads of short hooks and uppercuts, and HE decided when to break the clinch. Masterclass

He isn’t that good on the inside. He landed some short left hooks whilst leaning or stepping away but in general Smoger would tell both men to work away as their arms were free only for them to instigate a maul. Guys who are genuinely skilled on the inside can punch with both hands and put out combinations, Andre didn’t do this because he doesn’t have that ability and was made to look like he does by Carl’s ineptitude when close.

Ali often ‘controlled’ his opponent’s arms on the inside by grabbing it but that doesn’t equate to being able to fight there.

Agreed, if he was confident on his inside skills he wouldn't need to hold/maul. One thing I found astonishing from watching previous Ward fights was his tendency to put his head down like a rhino, grab his opponent, immobilising his arms and plough him back into the ropes, then take a half step back and land a flurry while the guy is sorting his guard out. I thought there was no chance he would be able to do that to Froch but he did, repeatedly. It's a disgrace that this is allowed, he is basically holding and charging the other guy across the ring like a bulldozer without punching, it is a foul pure and simple.

I don't get why Froch waited till the last round to flip Ward around when he did this, or lean on Ward when he was planning to charge. Let the ref say something and Froch could easily have made him see it was Andre instigating that crap.

arlovski wrote:we'll have to agree to disagree my friend! It wasn't the type of fight where both guys could sit in the pocket and lash combinations at each other like a couple of midget Mexicans,

I think I'd reverse that, at the risk of sounding pedantic, these two just aren't the kind of fighters who can sit in the pocket and throw combinations. Froch hasn't got the handspeed and Ward is the archetypal guy who given the choice would rather like to swim without getting wet, or without getting more than just a tad damp anyway.

I know what you mean though, Ward was 'masterful' in the sense of old-man Hopkins-type skills rather than what KG was implying earlier, that fighters with inside offense and defence both together are rare in today's game when judged by the standards of a Duran or a Basilio, or whoever.

all in all though i'd side with KG and RB, if Ward was that masterful inside, in the way KG is saying, he would hardly have to hold at all.

welcome, by the way

I agree it was a very impressive performance by Ward but I think he was in some difficulty towards the end. Froch had landed some great body shots early on and while I would not go as far to say Ward was "hanging on", he seemed to be giving off distress signals and was more open than before. Ward also seemed to be grimacing in pain before the decision was announced.

Froch obviously thinks he can learn from the fight and reverse the result if they fought again and I admire him for believing that, even though I suspect he would always be outsped by Ward.

King Geedorah wrote:c-p said it better than me. So I've nowt more to say.

Inside fighting needs to step up, but not step off as that would be counter intuitive.

I love the way JCC took half-steps off, and played little games sticking his head forwards/bakwards inviting the shot before stepping in and beating the daylights out of the guy again.

he actually stepped off and stepped up at the same time. i may have to take some time to digest that, fully.

Awesome and sublime are not two words I would attribute to Andre Ward, he's certainly ring smart and well schooled but he doesn't demonstrate the sublime fluidity of Mayweather or the destructive aggression of a Pacquiao.

Counter-puncher wrote:he actually stepped off and stepped up at the same time. i may have to take some time to digest that, fully.

LOL! Now that man could really do it all!

I think you're right about Ward 'old manning' Carl, in a Hopkins style rather than being a Chavez/Duran animal up close. Anyway, impressive performance.

nice debate, cheers for the welcome, been lurking here since 2003/4, clearly don't have much to say for myself!

Froch didn't make his move until way too late, and there's a good reason for that, because he would have emptied his tank much earlier and would have ended up at Ward's mercy. At the start of the 6th or 7th rounds he was practically out of the fight from a points perspective. Froch rallied briefly in the 7th but it fizzled out, not by choice, because he couldn't sustain it against boxer of Ward's callibre. Andre had Froch in an uncomfortable place several times and Froch didn't go for broke when he really needed to which was much earlier in the fight. Ward exceeded him at all the crucial times and showed in dominating Kessler and Froch his brilliant talents.

Froch is one of the ugliest mofos I've ever seen.

I suspect he cares little, seen his mrs?

yiddo14 wrote:I suspect he cares little, seen his mrs?

She just looks like any dumb receptionist from Nottingham!

Turns out Ward fought with a broken hand.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1708 ... -left-hand

crusader wrote:Turns out Ward fought with a broken hand.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1708 ... -left-hand

So what, David Haye fought with a broken TOE! Now that's a handicap...
D