Arcel and Steward said Ray Robinson was protected

[Cojimar 1946]

Robinson had no issue fighting the much bigger LaMotta so I hardly see weight difference being a problem. Not fighting Burley defininitely impacts his legacy but other fighters also failed to fight some of their best contemporaries.

As far as the footage of him goes...he must have been pretty good to beat Zivic, Williams, Moore, etc.

[Cojimar 1946]

I am also curious as to why people would rate Robinson ahead of Roy Jones. Roy Jones was more dominant in his prime than Robinson was and aside from a DQ against Montell Griffin didn't lose a fight until age 35.

[Controversial]

If Charley Burley was working and residing in San Diego, California when receiving a call at work about an offer of a bout with Archie Moore at the Hollywood Legion Stadium that was scheduled to take place that evening, it would mean that Burley would have to leave work and find a way to travel to Hollywood, which is a trip of about 120 miles from San Diego.

I have a book about Burley which quotes Eddie Futch about this subject. Futch reckons someone pulled out of the main event with Moore after they failed the medical which was at noon. The fight was at 7pm that evening. They rang Burley at work and he took the fight, went home for his kit then took a 125 mile bus ride to the venue. If a 35mph limit was in place it would have taken him around 3.5 hours so not impossible.

It is not impossible that Charley Burley could have made the trip to Hollywood from San Diego if he got the call at noon while at work. But I still think it would be a tough spot for Burley to be in. However, it is very clear that Burley and Archie Moore were matched for at least four days before their bout took place on schedule, which was on Friday evening, April 21, 1944.

During World War II, workers were encouraged to work a lot of overtime at manufacturing plants. As a family man, Burley could have been quite eager to get a lot of overtime even if he was making some money in the fight game.

- Chuck Johnston

No one knows for sure. Maybe they were already matched but Burley worked first and travelled to the fight on the same day, all speculation and irrelevant in the great scheme of things. What is known however was Burley gave away 6lbs and easily whupped Archie Moore by winning 9 out of 10 rounds, dropping him several times in the process. Out of interest do you have a link to anything showing that they were already scheduled to fight?

[Controversial]

- Typical ducking nonsense on this forum that is only one degree removed from McCallum and Burley ducking each other.

Burley turned pro to no acclaim 4 years before Robby who was greatly acclaimed upon his debut. Operated in different spheres with little opponent overlap. Burley was mostly done after the war, whereas Robby his most acclaim and money after his near fatal heat stroke against Maxim.

Like Charley, but going thru near a dozen mgrs didn't help his cause nor his Smith footage which would be a terrible place to look for genius. Lost his first fight to a guy in modern terms was 3 divisions below him. Recovered well, but c'mon!

SRR fought a 158lb middleweight in LaMotta in 1942, and in all their rematches, giving away upto 16lbs in weight. SRR weighed as high as 157lb in one fight in 1946. Burley also fought at 157lb in 1946. Whilst WW champ SRR fought 32 non-title fights all at middleweight so there was no real reason why they couldn't have fought, especially when several offers were made and rejected. As it was Burley was often forced to fight heavier guys as he couldn't get fights otherwise, Burley was 5'9" and SRR was 5'11" so size wise there wasn't much in it.

[Kalan]

How does a guy put together a 200+ fight career 'ducking' people. - but on the serious side, or should I say philosophical side - I believe 'ducking' is a fan value, not a fighter's obligation - fighters are entrepreneurs seeking the best money for the best fight and have no obligation to take a fight they believe they will lose - there was a time when you could make the argument that a champion had an obligation to the top contender, but today, with the sanctioning bodies watering down the titles, even that argument doesn't hold water - (a worthy contender can always just win a different belt) - 'ducking' is purely a fan value - a fighter has no obligation to take a bad fight just to satisfy wannabees like me.

What about a boxer like GGG, who is ambitious and has been an Undefeated Middleweight Champion for many years and seeks undisputed status??? He's been calling out the various Lineal Middleweight Champions for 7 years and the fans all agree the Lineal Champions were ducking him. And he still has to endure hearing his detractors like Floyd Mayweather tell the world that Canelo (who Floyd beat) would knock him out easily.

What about Gary Russell??? He's been the best Featherweight since Lomachenko left the division as a Featherweight Champion because the other top Freatherweights refused to fight him. Russell fought Lomachenko and his reward is that he can't get Santa Cruz, Mares, Selby, Frampton, or Cuellar to even consider fighting him. His supposed benefactor Al Haymon isn't helping him in that regard at all.

And what about Lomachenko? He's a 2 division World Champion but the other top Super Featherweights pretend he doesn't exist.

And what about Artur Beterbiev??? He's been a professional for 4 years and the other top Light Heavyweights are avoiding him like he's radioactive. He's got only 11 fights against guys he could beat 8 times a week. He finally got a fight lined up with Kovalev in Russia, a man he beat twice as an amateur, and Al Haymon put the kabash on the fight. Beterbiev could have gone through his 11 opponents in 6 months if he was matched as progressively as Mike Tyson (who had a much shorter amateur career) was matched. It's a massive waste of athletic potential and fighters are being cheated.

They all get screwed - this isn't a sport and no one owes anyone anything - you fight who you want to fight, period - your sense of justice is irrelevant, no one in the business signed-up to make you happy.

You don’t get to pick and choose who you want to fight if you’re a World Champion -- unless you're Leonard, Floyd, Pacquiao, Santa Cruz, Khan, Canelo, and other privileged boxers. Floyd Patterson didn't want to fight Sonny Liston—and didn't for a very long time. But President Kennedy said that's the fight he wanted to see.

And I don't need to be happy. I'm very happy personally, but that was never a goal. I've often put somebody else's well-being ahead of my own. I have no idea why. I'm not trying to be a do-gooder. I just don't like seeing people in a bad way if I can help it. I don't particularly like people who screw other people over or take advantage of them—just because they can. I'm well aware that many people in this world get a bad deal. They get screwed over royally. Also some people are privileged and get many things they don't deserve on a silver platter. Good for them. The world is full of the fortunate and the unfortunate and it's better to be lucky than good. It's like winning the lottery. People are happy for you. They'd rather have it happen to somebody they know. But as a Boxing fan, I want to see the best boxers in the world get the opportunities they deserve to get. It’s not a sense of justice. The sport will be much better off and more fans will enjoy Boxing a lot more.

And let's deal with shadiness. If you're involved in Boxing, Banking, Politics, Medicine or whatever fields or activities you're involved with -- if you see something that's not right you should call attention to it. Too many folks put blinders on. "It's not my business. I just want to keep my job." That's how the Mortgage Crisis and the Great Recession hit America in 2008. Our economy crashed.. US taxpayers had to bail out major banks and corporations, and support 10 million people who were thrown out of work for several years. With the massive debt overload that ensued from the Great Recession, our economy has been anchored down and struggling to gain traction since the crash.. Obama laboriously reduced our annual budget deficit from 1.6 trillion a year in 2009 when he too office to 300 billion a year over 8 years.. Now the annual deficit is gaining momentum in the other direction again.. We're in a very tenuous financial situation that most people aren't aware of...all because people in the know didn't speak up in the years leading up to the crash.. The very few did they lost their jobs or were told to pipe down because the problem was being addressed.

[Ambling Alp II]

- Typical ducking nonsense on this forum that is only one degree removed from McCallum and Burley ducking each other.

Burley turned pro to no acclaim 4 years before Robby who was greatly acclaimed upon his debut. Operated in different spheres with little opponent overlap. Burley was mostly done after the war, whereas Robby his most acclaim and money after his near fatal heat stroke against Maxim.

Like Charley, but going thru near a dozen mgrs didn't help his cause nor his Smith footage which would be a terrible place to look for genius. Lost his first fight to a guy in modern terms was 3 divisions below him. Recovered well, but c'mon!

SRR fought a 158lb middleweight in LaMotta in 1942, and in all their rematches, giving away upto 16lbs in weight. SRR weighed as high as 157lb in one fight in 1946. Burley also fought at 157lb in 1946. Whilst WW champ SRR fought 32 non-title fights all at middleweight so there was no real reason why they couldn't have fought, especially when several offers were made and rejected. As it was Burley was often forced to fight heavier guys as he couldn't get fights otherwise, Burley was 5'9" and SRR was 5'11" so size wise there wasn't much in it.

If you really think about this it is silly. Because Robinson fought several fighters who were in a heavier weight class, he is ducking anyone in a higher weight class that he didn't fight?

Robinson was a clearly better fighter. There was no reason to duck him.

[Cojimar 1946]

Better based on what? Guys like Randy Turpin and Jake LaMotta actually beat Robinson in his prime. If guys like that can beat Robinson than Burley might well have beaten him as well given he was better than either of them.

[Cojimar 1946]

If Holyfield and Riddick Bowe had never fought people would probably say it was crazy to think he had any chance of beating Holyfield or that Holyfield ducked him. I mean, aside from Holyfield Bowe has virtually no quality wins. He has a win over an past-it Tony Tubbs and then you are left with guys like Larry Donald, Herbie Hide, etc who were not even world-class. If you take out the Holyfield fights there is nothing on Bowe's resume to indicate he poses any sort of threat to Holyfield.

Unlike Bowe, Burley actually has some quality wins over guys like Zivic, Moore, Holman Williams, etc. I would say resume-wise Burley seems like a bigger threat to Robinson.

[Chuck1052]

I have a book about Burley which quotes Eddie Futch about this subject. Futch reckons someone pulled out of the main event with Moore after they failed the medical which was at noon. The fight was at 7pm that evening. They rang Burley at work and he took the fight, went home for his kit then took a 125 mile bus ride to the venue. If a 35mph limit was in place it would have taken him around 3.5 hours so not impossible.

It is not impossible that Charley Burley could have made the trip to Hollywood from San Diego if he got the call at noon while at work. But I still think it would be a tough spot for Burley to be in. However, it is very clear that Burley and Archie Moore were matched for at least four days before their bout took place on schedule, which was on Friday evening, April 21, 1944.

During World War II, workers were encouraged to work a lot of overtime at manufacturing plants. As a family man, Burley could have been quite eager to get a lot of overtime even if he was making some money in the fight game.

- Chuck Johnston

No one knows for sure. Maybe they were already matched but Burley worked first and travelled to the fight on the same day, all speculation and irrelevant in the great scheme of things. What is known however was Burley gave away 6lbs and easily whupped Archie Moore by winning 9 out of 10 rounds, dropping him several times in the process. Out of interest do you have a link to anything showing that they were already scheduled to fight?

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

[Controversial]

It is not impossible that Charley Burley could have made the trip to Hollywood from San Diego if he got the call at noon while at work. But I still think it would be a tough spot for Burley to be in. However, it is very clear that Burley and Archie Moore were matched for at least four days before their bout took place on schedule, which was on Friday evening, April 21, 1944.

During World War II, workers were encouraged to work a lot of overtime at manufacturing plants. As a family man, Burley could have been quite eager to get a lot of overtime even if he was making some money in the fight game.

- Chuck Johnston

No one knows for sure. Maybe they were already matched but Burley worked first and travelled to the fight on the same day, all speculation and irrelevant in the great scheme of things. What is known however was Burley gave away 6lbs and easily whupped Archie Moore by winning 9 out of 10 rounds, dropping him several times in the process. Out of interest do you have a link to anything showing that they were already scheduled to fight?

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

As I said it's irrelevant if he travelled on the day or not. No one knows for sure. If there is a link to another site with a newspaper clip just copy and paste the link into this forum. Alternatively just give us the web address or search term you used to find it.

[Kalan]

It is not impossible that Charley Burley could have made the trip to Hollywood from San Diego if he got the call at noon while at work. But I still think it would be a tough spot for Burley to be in. However, it is very clear that Burley and Archie Moore were matched for at least four days before their bout took place on schedule, which was on Friday evening, April 21, 1944.

During World War II, workers were encouraged to work a lot of overtime at manufacturing plants. As a family man, Burley could have been quite eager to get a lot of overtime even if he was making some money in the fight game.

- Chuck Johnston

No one knows for sure. Maybe they were already matched but Burley worked first and travelled to the fight on the same day, all speculation and irrelevant in the great scheme of things. What is known however was Burley gave away 6lbs and easily whupped Archie Moore by winning 9 out of 10 rounds, dropping him several times in the process. Out of interest do you have a link to anything showing that they were already scheduled to fight?

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

Copy the URL of the archived LA Times story. Click below your post or wherever you want to place the link. Click on URL..Then paste the link.

[Chuck1052]

No one knows for sure. Maybe they were already matched but Burley worked first and travelled to the fight on the same day, all speculation and irrelevant in the great scheme of things. What is known however was Burley gave away 6lbs and easily whupped Archie Moore by winning 9 out of 10 rounds, dropping him several times in the process. Out of interest do you have a link to anything showing that they were already scheduled to fight?

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

As I said it's irrelevant if he travelled on the day or not. No one knows for sure. If there is a link to another site with a newspaper clip just copy and paste the link into this forum. Alternatively just give us the web address or search term you used to find it.

I use a website called Newspapers.com, which requires a paid subscription. If you are interested in doing boxing research, I recommend getting a Newspapers.com subscription. The entire archives of the Los Angeles Times, which has been published since 1881, can be found on the website.

- Chuck Johnston

[Controversial]

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

As I said it's irrelevant if he travelled on the day or not. No one knows for sure. If there is a link to another site with a newspaper clip just copy and paste the link into this forum. Alternatively just give us the web address or search term you used to find it.

I use a website called Newspapers.com, which requires a paid subscription. If you are interested in doing boxing research, I recommend getting a Newspapers.com subscription. The entire archives of the Los Angeles Times, which has been published since 1881, can be found on the website.

- Chuck Johnston

[Kalan]

Do you think that Charley Burley worked a shift on his job in San Diego on the same day that he had a scheduled bout with Archie Moore in Hollywood? I would think that he would arrive in the Los Angeles area at least one day before the bout, which was the main event on the card, took place.

If the Hollywood Legion Stadium had its usual capacity crowd of about 6,100 or 6,200 for the card with Burley and Moore in the main event, I would think that the gross gate would be at least $10,000. A main eventer usually received 20 to 30 percent of the gate in a non-title bout. A purse of at least $2,000. was better than usual for Burley. It is probable that Burley's biggest purse was about $4,500.

I don't know much about creating links. Believe me, I would do it if I was able to.

- Chuck Johnston

As I said it's irrelevant if he travelled on the day or not. No one knows for sure. If there is a link to another site with a newspaper clip just copy and paste the link into this forum. Alternatively just give us the web address or search term you used to find it.

I use a website called Newspapers.com, which requires a paid subscription. If you are interested in doing boxing research, I recommend getting a Newspapers.com subscription. The entire archives of the Los Angeles Times, which has been published since 1881, can be found on the website.

- Chuck Johnston

Just post the date of the preview... It can't be the same day as the fight because it could be an "extra" story printed on extremely short notice... Then write exactly what the article says previewing the coming Burley-Moore Fight with the fight's date... I'd be interested because I've read more than one Boxing magazine article stating that Burley got a call at his day job and was offered the Moore fight for that evening.

[Chuck1052]

Here it goes......this is a link to a file containing the page that has Al Wolf's "Sportraits" column which mentions the upcoming bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore in the April 17, 1944 edition of the Los Angeles Times:

https:/files.acrobat.com/a/preview/70834fb8-ac95-4579-be4c-36c96ea7f0t

April 17, 1944 was a Monday. The Burley-Moore bout took place at the Hollywood Legion Stadium on Friday, April 21, 1944.

- Chuck Johnston

[Controversial]

Here it goes......this is a link to a file containing the page that has Al Wolf's "Sportraits" column which mentions the upcoming bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore in the April 17, 1944 edition of the Los Angeles Times:

https:/files.acrobat.com/a/preview/70834fb8-ac95-4579-be4c-36c96ea7f0t

April 17, 1944 was a Monday. The Burley-Moore bout took place at the Hollywood Legion Stadium on Friday, April 21, 1944.

- Chuck Johnston

No that link you provided doesn't work Chuck. Would you mind typing what the article says, assuming its not too long?

EDIT: Actually I found it elsewhere, I can see part of the article but as I'm not a subscriber its only showing a very small preview of the page, however I can see enough to see they are advertising their upcoming bout as you stated

[Kalan]

Controversial -- would you mind posting a link that works to the article YOU found... I can't find anything like that myself. Thanks if you can do it.

[Controversial]

Controversial -- would you mind posting a link that works to the article YOU found... I can't find anything like that myself. Thanks if you can do it.

Sure, its a paid for site but it you look on the Monday 17th April you will see a small preview pane, you can click left or right either side of that preview and its enough to see them advertising their bout on the Friday 21st.

https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd= ... ley&t=4312

[Chuck1052]

Here it goes......this is a link to a file containing the page that has Al Wolf's "Sportraits" column which mentions the upcoming bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore in the April 17, 1944 edition of the Los Angeles Times:

https:/files.acrobat.com/a/preview/70834fb8-ac95-4579-be4c-36c96ea7f0t

April 17, 1944 was a Monday. The Burley-Moore bout took place at the Hollywood Legion Stadium on Friday, April 21, 1944.

- Chuck Johnston

No that link you provided doesn't work Chuck. Would you mind typing what the article says, assuming its not too long?

EDIT: Actually I found it elsewhere, I can see part of the article but as I'm not a subscriber its only showing a very small preview of the page, however I can see enough to see they are advertising their upcoming bout as you stated

I certainly am not a computer whiz. In fact, I probably am barely competent in regards to computers at best.

The text in regards to the upcoming bout of Charley Burley and Archie Moore in Al Wolf's "Sportstraits" column in the April 17, 1944 (a Monday) edition of the Los Angeles Times is as follows:

"Hollywood Legion has a pip coming up Friday (April 21, 1944)--Charley Burley vs. Archie Moore...They'll meet at 162 pounds, so Burley's newly acquired State middleweight crown will not be at stake...Moore chilled Ronnie Starr in his last out, while Burley took Jack Chase's 160 pound belt away in his most recent appearance hereabouts. Babe McCoy (the matchmaker at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles at the time) would like to lure Jake LaMotta from the East for an Olympic special with Burley...it would do terrific business."

[Controversial]

Here it goes......this is a link to a file containing the page that has Al Wolf's "Sportraits" column which mentions the upcoming bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore in the April 17, 1944 edition of the Los Angeles Times:

https:/files.acrobat.com/a/preview/70834fb8-ac95-4579-be4c-36c96ea7f0t

April 17, 1944 was a Monday. The Burley-Moore bout took place at the Hollywood Legion Stadium on Friday, April 21, 1944.

- Chuck Johnston

No that link you provided doesn't work Chuck. Would you mind typing what the article says, assuming its not too long?

EDIT: Actually I found it elsewhere, I can see part of the article but as I'm not a subscriber its only showing a very small preview of the page, however I can see enough to see they are advertising their upcoming bout as you stated

I certainly am not a computer whiz. In fact, I probably am barely competent in regards to computers at best.

The text in regards to the upcoming bout of Charley Burley and Archie Moore in Al Wolf's "Sportstraits" column in the April 17, 1944 (a Monday) edition of the Los Angeles Times is as follows:

"Hollywood Legion has a pip coming up Friday (April 21, 1944)--Charley Burley vs. Archie Moore...They'll meet at 162 pounds, so Burley's newly acquired State middleweight crown will not be at stake...Moore chilled Ronnie Starr in his last out, while Burley took Jack Chase's 160 pound belt away in his most recent appearance hereabouts. Babe McCoy (the matchmaker at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles at the time) would like to lure Jake LaMotta from the East for an Olympic special with Burley...it would do terrific business."

Thank you Chuck, much appreciated

[Kalan]

I'm satisfied... The story about Burley taking the fight on a few hours notice is a debunked urban legend to build his historical mystique, or whatever.

However Charley Burley did dominate the fight and completely controlled Archie Moore in what was Moore's 75th professional fight... That's a great enough achievement on it's own... A prime Charley Burley is still one of the more skilled and avoided boxers who ever fought.

I note that they never were able to "lure Jake LaMotta from the East" like they had hoped -- or Robinson.

[Kalan]

- Typical ducking nonsense on this forum that is only one degree removed from McCallum and Burley ducking each other.

Burley turned pro to no acclaim 4 years before Robby who was greatly acclaimed upon his debut. Operated in different spheres with little opponent overlap. Burley was mostly done after the war, whereas Robby his most acclaim and money after his near fatal heat stroke against Maxim.

Like Charley, but going thru near a dozen mgrs didn't help his cause nor his Smith footage which would be a terrible place to look for genius. Lost his first fight to a guy in modern terms was 3 divisions below him. Recovered well, but c'mon!

SRR fought a 158lb middleweight in LaMotta in 1942, and in all their rematches, giving away upto 16lbs in weight. SRR weighed as high as 157lb in one fight in 1946. Burley also fought at 157lb in 1946. Whilst WW champ SRR fought 32 non-title fights all at middleweight so there was no real reason why they couldn't have fought, especially when several offers were made and rejected. As it was Burley was often forced to fight heavier guys as he couldn't get fights otherwise, Burley was 5'9" and SRR was 5'11" so size wise there wasn't much in it.

If you really think about this it is silly. Because Robinson fought several fighters who were in a heavier weight class, he is ducking anyone in a higher weight class that he didn't fight?

Robinson was a clearly better fighter. There was no reason to duck him.

There was PLENTY of reason for Robinson to duck Burley. The heavier men Robinson beat couldn’t box worth a nickel. You SHOULD beat a boxer who's up to 25% heavier than you if you have 3 times the boxing skills. Former Middleweight Champion Roy Jones easily won a Heavyweight Title from John Ruiz (who many pundits did NOT believe Roy could beat due to his much smaller size), who out-weighed Roy by 33 pounds. However, Roy couldn’t handle Antonio Tarver who was the same weight. Skills pay the bills.

You duck somebody because there's a false perception among the public that you are the better fighter. This perception is often due to your fame rather than your actual ability. You don't want to destroy that perception by losing badly to that fighter so you refuse all offers to face him. When Robinson was dominated by Ralph Jones (who lost his 5 previous fights) the general perception was the loss was a fluke. Losing a rematch would have obliterated that view so Robinson refused all offers of a Ralph Jones rematch. Losing to Trinidad in a rematch was not something De La Hoya was willing to risk -- though Oscar DID re-match Mosley after Shane suffered a 3-bout winless streak some years later. Oscar’s fame was so great he could pick his spots like Robinson.

When Robinson lost to Joey Maxim—who was 9% heavier—the general perception was that the hot weather had little effect on Maxim, but was responsible for Robinson’s defeat. Maxim said “I just hope it’s not too cold for Robinson if we rematch in the fall.” At any rate, a rematch wasn’t something Robinson thought was a good idea.

[Ambling Alp II]

If Holyfield and Riddick Bowe had never fought people would probably say it was crazy to think he had any chance of beating Holyfield or that Holyfield ducked him. I mean, aside from Holyfield Bowe has virtually no quality wins. He has a win over an past-it Tony Tubbs and then you are left with guys like Larry Donald, Herbie Hide, etc who were not even world-class. If you take out the Holyfield fights there is nothing on Bowe's resume to indicate he poses any sort of threat to Holyfield.

Unlike Bowe, Burley actually has some quality wins over guys like Zivic, Moore, Holman Williams, etc. I would say resume-wise Burley seems like a bigger threat to Robinson.

Bowe fought a lot of people who were supposed to be good but after he beat him suddenly they weren't any good. Tony Tubbs was not past it either. People who saw Bowe fight saw he had a lot of ability and was a serious threat to Holyfield. They also saw Holyfield have way too much trouble against an ancient Foreman and looked bad against an ancient Holmes.

[Ambling Alp II]

Better based on what? Guys like Randy Turpin and Jake LaMotta actually beat Robinson in his prime. If guys like that can beat Robinson than Burley might well have beaten him as well given he was better than either of them.

You are seriously asking what rating Robinson higher than Burley was based on? Wow.
Well you di your cherry picking.
Yes Robinson lost to Turpin, a very good fighter. You neglected to mention that Robinson had four fights in the previous 30 days. You also neglected to mention that
Robinson won the rematch.

Yes Robinson lost to LaMotta. You neglected to mention that Robinson beat LaMotta the other 5 times.

You had mentioned in another post that Burley beat Holman Williams, Archie Moore and Fritzie Zivic. You didn't mention that Williams beat Burley three times and that Zivic aslo beat Burley. Moore was a middleweight at the time and wasn't nearly as good at middleweight as light heavy.

Burley also lost greats like the legendary Jimmy Leto, Bery Lytell, and Chaely Williams.

Robinson on the hand, beat Zivic twice and never lost to Zivic, unlike Burley.
Robinson also beat Sammy Angott three times, and Kid Gavilan twice.

If Burley had a great fight and Robinson had (for him) a bad one, trhen Burley might win. robinson would have almost always beat him.
You would be correct in calling Burley a great fighter.
You would be out of your mind to think Burley was in Robinson's league.

[Kalan]

You are seriously asking what rating Robinson higher than Burley was based on? Wow. You would be out of your mind to think Burley was in Robinson's league.

Not only was he in Robinson's league, but well above him... After all Archie Moore fought more fights, and had more wins over better fighters than Robinson ever fought.. Moore easily beat Maxim who beat Robinson... Moore called Burley the greatest fighter of all time -- so was Moore out of his mind???

Maybe Eddie Futch was out of his mind... Futch called Burley the finest all around fighter he'd ever seen.

And maybe Ray Arcel was out of his mind... Arcel called Burley the greatest fighter of all time.

There's no doubt watching Burley on the grainy footage that is available, that he was much smoother and slicker defensively than Robinson, and his offense was superlative. Especially his footwork, feinting, timing, jabbing, and counter-punching.. In comparison Robinson was an overanxious swinger who wasted too many punches.. Maybe that's was why Robinson was decked by Artie Levine, Tommy Bell, Jake LaMotta twice, and Rocky Graziano, and why Ray ran out of gas against Maxim.. Maxim paced himself so beautifully against Robinson that he said he could easily have gone 25 rounds.

In fact, SRR threw so many punches that he gave you a ton of chances to rip in counters.. Burley was a superb counterpuncher. He made his punches count and didn't waste many.. Just like Ralph Jones dominated Robinson, why wouldn't Burley??? Robinson's reckless style of boxing was right up Burley's alley.