BoxRec

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Rexob wrote:Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

Haters will hate...

gilgamesh wrote:Well your rankings are understandable I just don't have Fury or Wlad ranked anymore due to inactivity. Wladimir definitely gets reinstalled as #1 if he beats Joshua in April. Joshua definitely rises to #1 if he beats Wlad.

I figure it may be the last we see of Wlad regardless of how it goes. The only thing Wlad might consider sticking around for if he were to beat Joshua would be a Fury rematch, though he may have already moved on from that.

If you feel it necessary to remove Fury after a year of inactivity then i wont argue too much on that point.
Wlad/Joshua winner in April definitely sorts the best of the rest. It will be an important fight for the heavyweight landscape...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Rexob wrote:Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

Haters will hate...

I don't hate the player, I hate the game.

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: I agree, if Joshua or any other heavyweight builds a resume to compare then yes Fury will have to step up or step aside.
If Joshua gets past Wlad next year then he moves to number 2 in the division in my eyes. Add 2 of Haye/Ortiz/Wilder/Parker to your resume and we are into 2018 and you will have moved past Tyson Fury.
But dont try to claim Fury is irrelevant and fast track somebody else into his position because you prefer there personality. Its neither fair nor honest...

Hey come on now, I'm not trying to fast track anyone. I'm just saying I don't personally recognise Fury in the rankings because he's exceeded 12 months of inactivity, has no fights scheduled, and more importantly has no boxing license. This is no reflection on Fury's achievements prior to this, and/or him as a person. The moment he won that fight in Germany, I recognised him as top of the ladder, and lauded his achievement. Rest assured it went very quickly downhill from there. From a purely boxing perspective, when he cancelled the second fight with Klitschko, I removed him as my #1.

removed Fury as #1 and replaced him with whom?

Well logically, by whoever is currently at #2.

Don't get me wrong, it's a pick from a bad bunch. I put Ortiz as my number one, as he's the best recent record who's fought inside the last 12 months.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Rexob wrote:Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

His behavior confirms absolutely nothing of the kind.
His behavior confirms nothing more than he is suffering from mental illness and perhaps that he's a bit of a berk!
It has absolutely no bearing on the last fight or how the second fight might have finished

davie wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Rexob wrote:Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

His behavior confirms absolutely nothing of the kind.
His behavior confirms nothing more than he is suffering from mental illness and perhaps that he's a bit of a berk!
It has absolutely no bearing on the last fight or how the second fight might have finished

I disagree. I don't think Fury believes he would win the rematch and would rather be stripped of the titles than go ahead with it.

wesshaw1985 wrote:who has Joshua beat for you to make him definitively number 1? Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina?
Wilder has beaten the same calibre of opponent AJ has

AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

Crease wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:who has Joshua beat for you to make him definitively number 1? Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina?
Wilder has beaten the same calibre of opponent AJ has

AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

I dont disagree with you on the point he has done everything asked of him, agreed that he is one of 3 current world champions and agred that he has ko'd all he has faced. They are all facts.
But he isnt number 1 in the division today.

Only guy Wilder hasnt ko'd is Stiverne because hes the toughest guy either man has faced.
AJ has faced one one more opponent this year than Wilder and it was due to an injury, that extra man being Molina somebody Wilder had already stopped.
If you want to discuss resumes over the past year then Ortiz should be number 1, Bryant Jennings is the best win any of the 3 men have...

Crease wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:who has Joshua beat for you to make him definitively number 1? Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina?
Wilder has beaten the same calibre of opponent AJ has

AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

All of things are true but have to be taken in context of who he has faced

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Crease wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:who has Joshua beat for you to make him definitively number 1? Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina?
Wilder has beaten the same calibre of opponent AJ has

AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

I dont disagree with you on the point he has done everything asked of him, agreed that he is one of 3 current world champions and agred that he has ko'd all he has faced. They are all facts.
But he isnt number 1 in the division today.

Only guy Wilder hasnt ko'd is Stiverne because hes the toughest guy either man has faced.
AJ has faced one one more opponent this year than Wilder and it was due to an injury, that extra man being Molina somebody Wilder had already stopped.
If you want to discuss resumes over the past year then Ortiz should be number 1, Bryant Jennings is the best win any of the 3 men have...

This is my thought. Is Ortiz the best boxer in the division? Remains to be seen, but probably not. But he does have the best resume over the last 12 months, and as a result sits top. It'll be all change by mid-2017, however as it stands, Ortiz #1.

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Crease wrote: AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

I dont disagree with you on the point he has done everything asked of him, agreed that he is one of 3 current world champions and agred that he has ko'd all he has faced. They are all facts.
But he isnt number 1 in the division today.

Only guy Wilder hasnt ko'd is Stiverne because hes the toughest guy either man has faced.
AJ has faced one one more opponent this year than Wilder and it was due to an injury, that extra man being Molina somebody Wilder had already stopped.
If you want to discuss resumes over the past year then Ortiz should be number 1, Bryant Jennings is the best win any of the 3 men have...

This is my thought. Is Ortiz the best boxer in the division? Remains to be seen, but probably not. But he does have the best resume over the last 12 months, and as a result sits top. It'll be all change by mid-2017, however as it stands, Ortiz #1.

You have Ortiz ahead of Povetkin in your rankings?
Povetkin on a run of Charr, Takam, Perez, Wach and Duhaupas all by KO...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: I dont disagree with you on the point he has done everything asked of him, agreed that he is one of 3 current world champions and agred that he has ko'd all he has faced. They are all facts.
But he isnt number 1 in the division today.

Only guy Wilder hasnt ko'd is Stiverne because hes the toughest guy either man has faced.
AJ has faced one one more opponent this year than Wilder and it was due to an injury, that extra man being Molina somebody Wilder had already stopped.
If you want to discuss resumes over the past year then Ortiz should be number 1, Bryant Jennings is the best win any of the 3 men have...

This is my thought. Is Ortiz the best boxer in the division? Remains to be seen, but probably not. But he does have the best resume over the last 12 months, and as a result sits top. It'll be all change by mid-2017, however as it stands, Ortiz #1.

You have Ortiz ahead of Povetkin in your rankings?
Povetkin on a run of Charr, Takam, Perez, Wach and Duhaupas all by KO...

I removed Povetkin from my rankings after his recent failed drugs test. Not sure where he can possibly go now, not sure any of the ABC rankings will sanction a fight with him in it.

To be quite frank, he doesn't deserve to be in the rankings. The guy is a complete joke, and should serve a long term ban.

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
This is my thought. Is Ortiz the best boxer in the division? Remains to be seen, but probably not. But he does have the best resume over the last 12 months, and as a result sits top. It'll be all change by mid-2017, however as it stands, Ortiz #1.

You have Ortiz ahead of Povetkin in your rankings?
Povetkin on a run of Charr, Takam, Perez, Wach and Duhaupas all by KO...

I removed Povetkin from my rankings after his recent failed drugs test. Not sure where he can possibly go now, not sure any of the ABC rankings will sanction a fight with him in it.

To be quite frank, he doesn't deserve to be in the rankings. The guy is a complete joke, and should serve a long term ban.

Wasn't Ortiz popped for PEDs?

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: You have Ortiz ahead of Povetkin in your rankings?
Povetkin on a run of Charr, Takam, Perez, Wach and Duhaupas all by KO...

I removed Povetkin from my rankings after his recent failed drugs test. Not sure where he can possibly go now, not sure any of the ABC rankings will sanction a fight with him in it.

To be quite frank, he doesn't deserve to be in the rankings. The guy is a complete joke, and should serve a long term ban.

Wasn't Ortiz popped for PEDs?

Didn't he serve a 9 month ban?

I'll be honest, and this is arguably a little off topic, but these drug allegations are not fun. 6 of the top 15 heavyweights (BoxRec rankings, not including Fury) have at some point tested positive or been banned.

Anyway, if they have been done for doping, and served a ban, I guess to some degree they can still be included in the rankings, although I would like to see more consistency.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Rexob wrote:Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

He knows he cant do it again and reality hit home that the world is gonna see him get sparked out,thats why he didnt want the rematch,thats why he snorted coke,thats why his uncle pulled the plug on the fight. Realist's are real fantasist's fantasise

Crease wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:who has Joshua beat for you to make him definitively number 1? Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina?
Wilder has beaten the same calibre of opponent AJ has

AJ has done everything asked of him thus far.
He hasn't put a foot wrong, is a reigning World Heavyweight Champion & has KO'd every man that he has faced (unlike Wilder).

AJ has also had more fights this year than Wilder & is more active.

Wow more fights than someone with multiple injuries!!!

And he beat Charles Martin!

Charles Martin!

Boxerbeetle wrote:Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career.

Jeez that's harsh...

The guy has a mental illness...

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career.

Jeez that's harsh...

The guy has a mental illness...

Well I think that remains to be seen. Whether he has depression or some kind of behavioural disorder, I can only idly speculate. I hope it's the latter, as then we're more likely see him return to the ring.

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career.

Jeez that's harsh...

The guy has a mental illness...

TBH I wouldn't because surprised if that's true because of his mental illness. Nowhere near enough to go on for him, but it's a reasonable explanation of how someone with a mental illness might feel.

BitPlayer wrote:

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career.

Jeez that's harsh...

The guy has a mental illness...

TBH I wouldn't because surprised if that's true because of his mental illness. Nowhere near enough to go on for him, but it's a reasonable explanation of how someone with a mental illness might feel.

Tbh i give tyson fury abit of a hard time on the best heavyweight threads only because he had great potential to crack on from the klit fight,he should of been a mega star now in boxing but its all gone wrong,now i know its not gone wrong because he doesnt want it,its gone wrong because he suffers from depression bad,now i think the guy should be surrounding himself with good people and people who love him for who he is. I cant add him to the best heavyweight at present cause he is taking a year out or whatever but,imo,he wouldnt be my number one at the moment anyway. Its all about opinions but i hope tyson sorts his life out and gets better,because we cant see whats wrong we think ther is nothing wrong but we cant see inside his head can we. I hope he gets the best people around him and he comes back a better man,stay off the booze thats the worst thing for you if your depressed.

thechump wrote:i hope tyson sorts his life out and gets better,because we cant see whats wrong we think ther is nothing wrong but we cant see inside his head can we. I hope he gets the best people around him and he comes back a better man,stay off the booze thats the worst thing for you if your depressed.

Well said and i whole-heartedly agree. Even if he decides that he's done with boxing.

I know people who have ended their lives through depression. It's a very dangerous thing.

Peter Fury says Tyson is due back next year - http://www.BS.com/peter-fury-t ... er--112047

I think it's a reasonable question to ask about whether Fury actually has a mental illness or not. I don't find him or those around him particularly believable, he'd had the PED issue come up, the rematch wasn't selling well at all, he was losing more fans than he was getting with the sexist/homophobic stuff, he'd failed a recreational drug test AND was openly not close to decent shape.

It certainly seemed convenient that given all that he was too ill to deal with anything rather than the alternative; namely he's a bit of a dick and went on a hefty booze and coke binge post Wlad.

dirk2686 wrote:I think it's a reasonable question to ask about whether Fury actually has a mental illness or not. I don't find him or those around him particularly believable, he'd had the PED issue come up, the rematch wasn't selling well at all, he was losing more fans than he was getting with the sexist/homophobic stuff, he'd failed a recreational drug test AND was openly not close to decent shape.

It certainly seemed convenient that given all that he was too ill to deal with anything rather than the alternative; namely he's a bit of a dick and went on a hefty booze and coke binge post Wlad.

X2

PredatorHayds wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:I think it's a reasonable question to ask about whether Fury actually has a mental illness or not. I don't find him or those around him particularly believable, he'd had the PED issue come up, the rematch wasn't selling well at all, he was losing more fans than he was getting with the sexist/homophobic stuff, he'd failed a recreational drug test AND was openly not close to decent shape.

It certainly seemed convenient that given all that he was too ill to deal with anything rather than the alternative; namely he's a bit of a dick and went on a hefty booze and coke binge post Wlad.

X2

I'm inclined to believe him based on the fact I suspected me might suffer from mental illness of sorts long before he told us he did. The guy displays symptoms and I can even remember posters on here mention they though he displayed bipolar like personality.

The timing however? Convenient? Possibly.
He may very well be telling the truth about suffering these problems but chose a suitable time for these issues to become too much to deal with. We can all speculate but I still maintain, unless we can say with absolute certainty he has no issues, making assumptions about someone suffering mental illness is somewhat crass.