BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
So are daily news fed to Americans.

As opposed Putinganda 24/7/365.

Isn't "free press" supposed to be better?

Why don't you direct us to the networks, radio stations, and publications eminating from Putinland that dare to question his authority in any serious manner, and that are not in a cacophonous unison in their anti-American sentiment?

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tanzio wrote: As opposed Putinganda 24/7/365.

Isn't "free press" supposed to be better?

Why don't you direct us to the networks, radio stations, and publications eminating from Putinland that dare to question his authority in any serious manner, and that are not in a cacophonous unison in their anti-American sentiment?

I am not arguing about Russian propaganda being truthful. It isn't. However, it is American propaganda which is relevant in this thread, and it is clearly anti-Russian and quite often not truthful and even not trying to be that.

jezzamundo wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

NateJR wrote:First off the fight wasn't a robbery. If you cant distinguish the difference between a robbery and a close fight maybe you shouldn't watch boxing to begin with. I watched the fight once and I thought it was a razor close fight, the first few rounds were close, Kovalev got the KD and it seemed Ward took control later in the fight with a few swing rounds. There were alot of close rounds from beginning to end with very few rounds in which there was a clear winner. Honestly a draw could have very well been warranted, it's just hilarious people have gotten so emotionally upset over the decision because their guy simply didn't win. Grow the hell up.. If Kovalev is such the superior boxer he will win the next fight and there won't be so many close rounds. But the truth is, they are both great fighters that compete at a high level and it will more than likely be damn near the same fight, without a knock down and Ward will win another close decision you can cry about.

If a champion who won 6-9 rounds and knocked a challenger down loses his titles, it is a robbery even if a fight was close.

Many, myself included, had Kovalev winning 5 rounds - although I was rooting for Kovalev. That said, the judges all clearly got the 10th round wrong, so if you want to call it a robbery based on the scoring of that round I can see where you're coming from. I think controversial decision is a better description of the fight. Personally I never use the R word in close fights with lots of swing rounds that could have fairly been given to either fighter.

That was clearly not the case... There wasn't a lot of swing rounds... They needed to take the 10th -- a round Kovalev clearly won -- and give it to Ward.

I have never rewatched the fight, but I remember thinking that there were swing rounds, in the sense that scores would vary based on when you started giving Ward rounds. The way I remember he did better in each round from the 2nd to the 9th, but I didn't see him start actually winning rounds until the 5th or 6th. I had Kovalev winning 5 of the first 6, and Ward winning 5 of the last 6, with the knockdown deciding the fight (and with the official scoring of the 10th being highly questionable). But anyway point being, I did think there could plausibly be some variation in how some of those early rounds were scored.

Here is a question; We all know the first fight was close. (regardless of who you think won) If Ward wins the second bout decisively, will fans of Kovalev admit Ward is better or will there need to be a third bout? I think it goes without saying there will need to be a third if Kovalev wins.

I think Kovalev fans need to give Ward credit for 1, moving up in weight and taking on the top guy in that weight, and 2, agreeing to a rematch. Ward could have retired and history books would have him above Kovalev, no matter what fans currently think. Would Kovalev go up to Light Heavy and do the same?

I don't think a second fight was needed. Kovalev was clearly the better fighter.

Badhusker wrote:Here is a question; We all know the first fight was close. (regardless of who you think won) If Ward wins the second bout decisively, will fans of Kovalev admit Ward is better or will there need to be a third bout? I think it goes without saying there will need to be a third if Kovalev wins.

I think Kovalev fans need to give Ward credit for 1, moving up in weight and taking on the top guy in that weight, and 2, agreeing to a rematch. Ward could have retired and history books would have him above Kovalev, no matter what fans currently think. Would Kovalev go up to Light Heavy and do the same?

If Kovalev stops Ward, nobody including Ward will want a rematch.

Ward moved up, because he couldn't make 168 anymore. He took on the top guy in that weight, because HBO forced him to.

The promoters aren't going to want to lose money for a third time. This fight has no buzz, not even on here. This thread is only long because it's a continuation of the argument about the decision. Ward would have done the sport a favor if he retired.

Badhusker wrote:Here is a question; We all know the first fight was close. (regardless of who you think won) If Ward wins the second bout decisively, will fans of Kovalev admit Ward is better or will there need to be a third bout? I think it goes without saying there will need to be a third if Kovalev wins.

I think Kovalev fans need to give Ward credit for 1, moving up in weight and taking on the top guy in that weight, and 2, agreeing to a rematch. Ward could have retired and history books would have him above Kovalev, no matter what fans currently think. Would Kovalev go up to Light Heavy and do the same?

Ward deliberately tried to get the jump on Kovalev on the rematch by pretending he was planning to retire while everyone knew that was garbage.. There's no reason to give anyone credit for a fight that's bagged before the 1st bell rings and the referee allows Ward to push, shove, and butt.. It's supposed to be a boxing match not a shoving contest.. Ward was out scored in numbers of punches thrown and landed and was still given credit for leveraged body shots.. Pushing is a foul.. You're supposed to use finesse to land punches not fouling tactics... Ward was knocked down and out scored... He damned sure lost the 10th round which the judges gave him unanimously.. I can't see anyone defending that coordinated robbery.

Kalan wrote:Ward deliberately tried to get the jump on Kovalev on the rematch by pretending he was planning to retire while everyone knew that was garbage.

What a load of utter fúckíng bóllocks!

Andre Ward had already agreed to the terms of the rematch with Kovalev’s promoter, Main Events, prior to the first bout, but since his own promoter, Roc Nation, had funded the majority of his fight purse (as already confirmed by Kathy Duva), the SOG clearly stated that he’d only consider fighting again as long as they agreed to partially fund his payday again.

Andre Ward’s actions did not gain any sort of advantage over Sergey Kovalev!

Do your fúckíng research man! Some of the shíté you write down is absurd! Do you even follow the sport… or do you simply pretend?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Same, one of the reasons I started posting again was to cling to my interest. I used to watch everything plus my 1,000 plus DVDs. I got to a point where I'd watch 1 round on the DVR and delete it. This year has been good though.

Yeah, comes to a point where all you're doing is watching people with mental hangups beating on each other, who are managed and promoted by mental cases appearing on networks with agendas all the while trying not to communicate with deranged forum members to become one yourself. Great hobby.

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:I'll admit that I felt the same way when they read off the scores at the end of the Kov/Ward 1. I was livid and just pissed off at the sport and wondered why i put so much into it if they can just hand a victory to someone that did nothing to deserve it. Then I looked at the facts...the venue, the judges, the ref....everything is going against Kovalev. Why should I have been surprised.

Then i thought, does this have anything to do with Kovalev's promoter Kathy Duva? Boxing is years and years behind society in terms of equal rights. My feeling is that Boxing is not prepared to have it's #1 P4P star, which Kovalev would have been had he won that fight, be managed by a woman.

All this fúckíng búllshít that I keep reading, whereby merely casual ignorant fight fans persistently bemoan about mythical anti-Russian sentiments or hometown bias as the main reasons why the American judges awarded the decision to Ward instead of Sergey Kovalev, is nothing but a big pair of sweaty cheesy sagging wrinkly bóllócks!

Kathy Duva has always allowed the boxing commissions to appoint their own judges for all of the contests involving the Eastern European/Communist fighters within the Main Events stable, which has led to predominantly and typically unanimously American judges officiating the vast majority of the bouts that her boxers compete in, whenever their events are staged on US soil.

In fact, the vast majority of Sergey Kovalev’s bouts staged in America have predominantly had purely US-based officials working his contests.

The first Kovalev-Ward fight was close and a decent argument can be made that either fighter deserved to gain the nod… and it’s extremely unfortunate for either man to be deemed as the “loser” from the outcome of such a competitive fight… and the decision of evenly-contested bouts are nearly always aggressively and boldly proclaimed nowadays as “ROBBERIES” by tearful fans that are outraged because their favourite fighter lost their contest!

Whilst I empathise with those that are disappointed about Sergey Kovalev’s defeat to Andre Ward, I really don’t have any patience with those that persistently cry “ROBBERY”, whilst making all sorts of unscrupulous allegations involving corruption and bigotry!

You are a one trick pony dude. Same old BS opinion...do you ever get sick of writing the same view or do you just cut and paste these and just update the insults so no one notices? The majority of boxing fans and pundits have labeled the fight a horrible decision. People that have been in the sport for years, HOF'ers and HOF's to be and all of sudden, you know more than them sitting there with those bandaid repaired glasses getting all pissy whenever someone discusses this horrible decision and the fact that there are crooked judges in Boxing. OMG NO~
YOUR VIRGIN EARS! Boxing is sometimes fixed? Says Who? When did this happen? SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME JACKASS. This is how Canelo scores a draw against Floyd on one of the cards. It's how someone could score Canelo/Lara 117-111 in favor of Canelo.

You keep referring to nationalities and where boxers have fought most of their fights. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FIXING A FIGHT. Fixing a fight comes down to which team comes up with the most money, or sets up a future job or opportunity or other desirable gifts that could be offered. If more influential and powerful people stand to make a lot of money as a result of a fight result, they will PAY a lot of money to lessen the risk to make it happen. Don't be so naive man. Or, come up with something different. You are just like that wind chime on my back porch....same tune all day long no matter what the weather.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:Ward deliberately tried to get the jump on Kovalev on the rematch by pretending he was planning to retire while everyone knew that was garbage.

What a load of utter fúckíng bóllocks!

Andre Ward had already agreed to the terms of the rematch with Kovalev’s promoter, Main Events, prior to the first bout, but since his own promoter, Roc Nation, had funded the majority of his fight purse (as already confirmed by Kathy Duva), the SOG clearly stated that he’d only consider fighting again as long as they agreed to partially fund his payday again.

Andre Ward’s actions did not gain any sort of advantage over Sergey Kovalev!

Do your fúckíng research man! Some of the shíté you write down is absurd! Do you even follow the sport… or do you simply pretend?

You're the guy who's full of it... Ward kept insinuating he might retire, saying there was little more for him to accomplish.. Do YOUR research you piece

Kalan wrote:I don't think anybody is going to stop a master boxer like Ward...even somebody who can box and punch better than Ward, like Kovalev.

I think it's unlikely that Kovalev will get the D.. He'll be cheated again.. They have the same setup for this fight as the last fight as far as judges and referee are concernedf.. Ward looks better prepared mentally and physically for this fight.. He was going into the unknown last time..

What I would try to do for Kovalev is have him dominate with the jab.. Don't strength with Andre because he's on the Victor Conte special strength program and very strong.. You won't win a wrestling match with him.. Just strictly box him... jab him up... save your energy for a strong 2nd half... and win every round.. and DON'T get exercised or angry.. Don't even fake anger because you'll blow energy and that's what they want.

I think mentally they've gotten into Ward's head and they expect Kovalev to be really angry and expend all his energy early going for the KO.. Ward will be saving his energy up, trying to get a much better start, and increase the pressure every round after the 6th -- and even take Kovalev out late -- which is bullcrap.. That's not going to happen, but they would like to punish him severely.. That's their plan.

Kovalev also has to worry about double agents in his camp... They said Jackson called and spilled the beans on everything Kovalev is doing and tried to jump ship to Ward's camp.. That's insane enough to claim something like that.. They're trying to cause dissention and discord in Kovalev’s camp.. They’ll stoop to any mind games no matter how dirty..They're trying to cause rifts, but I trust Jackson.. But there are other people in your camp besides the head coach... giving you water... rubbing Vaseline on you... preparing meals for you... You have to be very careful because this is a very dirty business... Remember you're a Russian.. That's the biggest strike against you.

I heard through the grapevine that team Ward has hired both James Bond and Jason Bourne to spy on Kovalev's camp. No one has noticed yet though.....as it should be.

Kalan wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:Ward deliberately tried to get the jump on Kovalev on the rematch by pretending he was planning to retire while everyone knew that was garbage.

What a load of utter fúckíng bóllocks!

Andre Ward had already agreed to the terms of the rematch with Kovalev’s promoter, Main Events, prior to the first bout, but since his own promoter, Roc Nation, had funded the majority of his fight purse (as already confirmed by Kathy Duva), the SOG clearly stated that he’d only consider fighting again as long as they agreed to partially fund his payday again.

Andre Ward’s actions did not gain any sort of advantage over Sergey Kovalev!

Do your fúckíng research man! Some of the shíté you write down is absurd! Do you even follow the sport… or do you simply pretend?

You're the guy who's full of it... Ward kept insinuating he might retire, saying there was little more for him to accomplish.. Do YOUR research you piece

Andre Ward never officially announced his retirement, did he? Even Kathy Duva appreciated that Ward had to negotiate his payday with Roc Nation prior to engaging in a rematch against Sergey Kovalev. There are even videos of her saying this.

If Roc Nation had chosen against fulfilling their contractual obligations to Ward, then the S.O.G. would have likely retired, because there would be no financial incentive for him to share the ring against a man that he had already beaten, whilst not being paid his worth… especially considering he was legally bound to his rematch clause (if he chose to continue participating in this sport).

You doggedly maintain that “Ward deliberately tried to get the jump on Kovalev on the rematch by pretending he was planning to retire”, which is utter fúckíng nonsense of the highest order!

Kalan wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
If a champion who won 6-9 rounds and knocked a challenger down loses his titles, it is a robbery even if a fight was close.

Many, myself included, had Kovalev winning 5 rounds - although I was rooting for Kovalev. That said, the judges all clearly got the 10th round wrong, so if you want to call it a robbery based on the scoring of that round I can see where you're coming from. I think controversial decision is a better description of the fight. Personally I never use the R word in close fights with lots of swing rounds that could have fairly been given to either fighter.

That was clearly not the case... There wasn't a lot of swing rounds... They needed to take the 10th -- a round Kovalev clearly won -- and give it to Ward.

I know you don't think that was the case, but I disagree there's anything clear about it. After the first two rounds I thought rounds 3-6 all could have gone either way, though I gave Ward the 3rd and 5th and Kovalev the 4th and 6th. Ward clearly won round 7, the 8th and 9th were both close but clear to Ward, Kovalev clearly won the 10th, Ward won a close 11th round and the 12th was another swing round - I gave it to Ward on first viewing, but on second viewing scored it even.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote: Isn't "free press" supposed to be better?

Why don't you direct us to the networks, radio stations, and publications eminating from Putinland that dare to question his authority in any serious manner, and that are not in a cacophonous unison in their anti-American sentiment?

I am not arguing about Russian propaganda being truthful. It isn't. However, it is American propaganda which is relevant in this thread, and it is clearly anti-Russian and quite often not truthful and even not trying to be that.

The American media does not cover boxing enough to have a bias. Wtf are you talking about?

If you would like to discuss the USA media with regard to Russia in general, it is an Offal Topic subject.

Besides, there is no Russia per se. It is essentially Putin's personal fiefdom. The American people really have nothing against the people who could once call themselves Russians. It is their totalitarian master that Americans have a problem with and his personal meddling in our election process.

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tanzio wrote: Why don't you direct us to the networks, radio stations, and publications eminating from Putinland that dare to question his authority in any serious manner, and that are not in a cacophonous unison in their anti-American sentiment?

I am not arguing about Russian propaganda being truthful. It isn't. However, it is American propaganda which is relevant in this thread, and it is clearly anti-Russian and quite often not truthful and even not trying to be that.

The American media does not cover boxing enough to have a bias. Wtf are you talking about?

If you would like to discuss the USA media with regard to Russia in general, it is an Offal Topic subject.

Besides, there is no Russia per se. It is essentially Putin's personal fiefdom. The American people really have nothing against the people who could once call themselves Russians. It is their totalitarian master that Americans have a problem with and his personal meddling in our election process.

I am talking about a stream of mostly lies or at least unsubstantiated information about Russians being aggressive, interfering everywhere, plotting to occupy neighboring countries including NATO members. CNN, MSNBC, other news companies and web sites talk about Russia non-stop. If I wasn't Russian, I would definitely be anti-Russian at this time. Are you saying it doesn't affect judges?

Here, in this forum, you can find expressions like "filthy Russians", but anti-Russian sentiment is mythical ???

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote: I am not arguing about Russian propaganda being truthful. It isn't. However, it is American propaganda which is relevant in this thread, and it is clearly anti-Russian and quite often not truthful and even not trying to be that.

The American media does not cover boxing enough to have a bias. Wtf are you talking about?

If you would like to discuss the USA media with regard to Russia in general, it is an Offal Topic subject.

Besides, there is no Russia per se. It is essentially Putin's personal fiefdom. The American people really have nothing against the people who could once call themselves Russians. It is their totalitarian master that Americans have a problem with and his personal meddling in our election process.

I am talking about a stream of mostly lies or at least unsubstantiated information about Russians being aggressive, interfering everywhere, plotting to occupy neighboring countries including NATO members. CNN, MSNBC, other news companies and web sites talk about Russia non-stop. If I wasn't Russian, I would definitely be anti-Russian at this time. Are you saying it doesn't affect judges?

Here, in this forum, you can find expressions like "filthy Russians", but anti-Russian sentiment is mythical ???

You’re accusing American judges, whom you don’t know and have never met, who have previously worked on Kovalev’s fights, of holding anti-Russian sentiments, which is by definition “racist” behaviour.

This is not the first time you’ve labelled a whole set of people (from the western world), whom you know absolutely nothing about, of possessing racist thoughts.

Is there no line that you won’t cross? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own words?

There is no point to argue with an idiot who doesn't see a difference between politics and racism. Cold war had nothing to do with racism and neither does the current Cold War 2.

jezzamundo wrote:

Kalan wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
Many, myself included, had Kovalev winning 5 rounds - although I was rooting for Kovalev. That said, the judges all clearly got the 10th round wrong, so if you want to call it a robbery based on the scoring of that round I can see where you're coming from. I think controversial decision is a better description of the fight. Personally I never use the R word in close fights with lots of swing rounds that could have fairly been given to either fighter.

That was clearly not the case... There wasn't a lot of swing rounds... They needed to take the 10th -- a round Kovalev clearly won -- and give it to Ward.

I know you don't think that was the case, but I disagree there's anything clear about it. After the first two rounds I thought rounds 3-6 all could have gone either way, though I gave Ward the 3rd and 5th and Kovalev the 4th and 6th. Ward clearly won round 7, the 8th and 9th were both close but clear to Ward, Kovalev clearly won the 10th, Ward won a close 11th round and the 12th was another swing round - I gave it to Ward on first viewing, but on second viewing scored it even.

The first round Ward won was the 7th, but forget all those rounds you claim are "close" rounds... You admit Kovalev clearly won the 10th... All 3 judges gave Ward the 10th round and it was a desperate situation for Ward at that point.. Ward absolutely needed the 10th round to win... The judges clearly coordinated their scores to make the judging look less suspicious and not all over the map on their scorecards. The crooks discovered the media loves to talk about divergent scorecards from judges watching different fights -- but coming up with the same winner.

Like Jerry Roth scoring the 12th round of Trinidad-De La Hoya for Oscar to make his card look more reasonably close as the fight was.. Oscar clearly gave that round away. He was running full tilt as Trinidad chased him around the ring landing big shots on Oscar's chin. Everyone in the media caught that ridiculous 12th round score by Roth. It looked like Roth was playing back-n-fill to try to make his card look more reasonably close.. Roth made the same excuse Ford did when called before the commission---as though they were going to do anything to him or change the score. "I scored that round wrong. I'm human. I make mistakes." Yeah right.. so contrite.. but still get appointed to every big fight.

The media openly questioned the appointment of CJ Ross for the Mayweather-Alvarez Fight. "She messed up so many times" -- and here she was judging the biggest PPV in fistic history up to that point. Why use her??? Luckily her scorecard didn't effect the outcome---but in that same fight, Dave Moretti also seemed to be giving every possible close round to Alvarez.. If that fight were close Canelo would have won it -- no question.

Remember the 1st Hopkins-Taylor Fight??? That result was fixed... The tell wasn't the scores, but the scorecard of Duane Ford, who also was a judge who voted for Bradley over Pacquiao along with CJ Ross... To secure the fight for Taylor, Ford had to give him the 12th round -- even though Taylor was out-punched 2-1 in that round and hurt... It was something the media caught on to right away---like the horrible scores of Lara-Williams from all 3 judges that the media pounced on.. The commissioners who appointed Ford quieted down the complaints by publicly calling Ford on the carpet -- even though they were a party to the fix.. Ford said, "I blew it.. I just voted for the wrong guy in that round" which was critical in throwing the fight to Taylor. Calling Ford on the carpet was a dog and pony show. The commission wasn't going to change the result.. or fire Ford.. or even suspend him. If they were party to the fix why would they?

It's funny how foreignors live and die with their boxers. They cant stand the thought of losing to Americans when boxing is like the 8th biggest sport in the States. I guess I can understand the foreign mindset. Let us have boxing since you have everything else. I can respect that.

diddy wrote:It's funny how foreignors live and die with their boxers. They cant stand the thought of losing to Americans when boxing is like the 8th biggest sport in the States. I guess I can understand the foreign mindset. Let us have boxing since you have everything else. I can respect that.

..diddy, of course there's a difference whether you live in a country with a number of different sports and a lot of quality sportsmen, in this case you can "afford" liking some and disliking others...smaller countries and their fans don't have this luxury..so, they just stick to their few national heroes...of course, there is traditional rivalry between certain countries and their fans, nothing wrong with that...

diddy wrote:It's funny how foreignors live and die with their boxers. They cant stand the thought of losing to Americans when boxing is like the 8th biggest sport in the States. I guess I can understand the foreign mindset. Let us have boxing since you have everything else. I can respect that.

The outrage has nothing to do with Kovalev being Russian and Ward being American. It has everything to do with a better exciting fighter, a champion, being robbed in favor of a boring dirty fighter.

There isn't anybody as dirty and boring as Ward among top fighters, but if let's say Errol Spence was robbed in favor of an opponent like Ward, I would also be outraged.

boxing_rocks wrote:

diddy wrote:It's funny how foreignors live and die with their boxers. They cant stand the thought of losing to Americans when boxing is like the 8th biggest sport in the States. I guess I can understand the foreign mindset. Let us have boxing since you have everything else. I can respect that.

The outrage has nothing to do with Kovalev being Russian and Ward being American. It has everything to do with a better exciting fighter, a champion, being robbed in favor of a boring dirty fighter.

There isn't anybody as dirty and boring as Ward among top fighters, but if let's say Errol Spence was robbed in favor of an opponent like Ward, I would also be outraged.

The Ward-Kovalev decision wasnt even the worst decision of the night. There are worse decisions EVERY WEEK than that one, and we have guys threatening to quit watching the sport over it?! Did I think Kovalev won? Yes I had him winning 114-113. Doesnt even make the list of the top 500 robberies I've seen in boxing.