Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 21:20
by Ilya Muromets
Yes he is. He's 74 now. Well good for him! Shows that drugs aren't that bad for you. Just legalize them all and knock off all the drug hysteria bs! But that would cut off a big source of income from too many of the high and mighty, huh?
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 21:23
by oogiebe
x2x wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018, 21:20
Yes he is. He's 74 now. Well good for him! Shows that drugs aren't that bad for you. Just legalize them all and knock off all the drug hysteria bs! But that would cut off a big source of income from too many of the high and mighty, huh?
ON a more serious note, the real big issue in performance from PED"s is the joint issues it causes. (and turning your ball sac into a raison sac).
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Next thing you know, You'll tell me that Superstar Billy Graham took steroids!
There's a name i haven't heard in a long time. Yes, i believe the Superstar dabbled a bit. Wrestling was very filthy back then. The way i see it "sports entertainment" wrestling is merging with boxing now. They still take steroids and everything else in both, just that the big name in-crowd has layers of protection around them. Is Super still living?
Graham said he was taking steroids as far back as the 60's and he learned it from the 'old timers' so you were probably right in your earlier text. And that's MISTER Oogyboogy to you sir!
OK, sorry, MISTER Boogywoogy.
I don't think the "old timers" were doing it before the mid or late sixties. Like the bodybuilding champs by year i mentioned before, look at wrestlers from the early 60's and before and you will see men with normal looking physiques, a far cry from Superstar and his friends.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
There's a name i haven't heard in a long time. Yes, i believe the Superstar dabbled a bit. Wrestling was very filthy back then. The way i see it "sports entertainment" wrestling is merging with boxing now. They still take steroids and everything else in both, just that the big name in-crowd has layers of protection around them. Is Super still living?
Graham said he was taking steroids as far back as the 60's and he learned it from the 'old timers' so you were probably right in your earlier text. And that's MISTER Oogyboogy to you sir!
OK, sorry, MISTER Boogywoogy.
I don't think the "old timers" were doing it before the mid or late sixties. Like the bodybuilding champs by year i mentioned before, look at wrestlers from the early 60's and before and you will see men with normal looking physiques, a far cry from Superstar and his friends.
Of course, you're talking the Superstar! Steroids were used before that time not for body building but for quickening the healing process.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
x2x wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018, 21:20
Yes he is. He's 74 now. Well good for him! Shows that drugs aren't that bad for you. Just legalize them all and knock off all the drug hysteria bs! But that would cut off a big source of income from too many of the high and mighty, huh?
ON a more serious note, the real big issue in performance from PED"s is the joint issues it causes. (and turning your ball sac into a raison sac).
Overdoing anything will cause problems. There are all sorts of ways to abuse your body...most definitely including just plain old boxing! All of these drug fighting outfits are corrupt , and the higher up you go in "the war on drugs" the more corrupt it gets
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
x2x wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018, 21:20
Yes he is. He's 74 now. Well good for him! Shows that drugs aren't that bad for you. Just legalize them all and knock off all the drug hysteria bs! But that would cut off a big source of income from too many of the high and mighty, huh?
ON a more serious note, the real big issue in performance from PED"s is the joint issues it causes. (and turning your ball sac into a raison sac).
Overdoing anything will cause problems. There are all sorts of ways to abuse your body...most definitely including just plain old boxing! All of these drug fighting outfits are corrupt , and the higher up you go in "the war on drugs" the more corrupt it gets
LIsten my man, all these organizations and causes are to make someone money. EVERYTHING! even Not for profits make their executives rich. People pretend to care but it's all BS.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Graham said he was taking steroids as far back as the 60's and he learned it from the 'old timers' so you were probably right in your earlier text. And that's MISTER Oogyboogy to you sir!
OK, sorry, MISTER Boogywoogy.
I don't think the "old timers" were doing it before the mid or late sixties. Like the bodybuilding champs by year i mentioned before, look at wrestlers from the early 60's and before and you will see men with normal looking physiques, a far cry from Superstar and his friends.
Of course, you're talking the Superstar! Steroids were used before that time not for body building but for quickening the healing process.
Limited medical experimentation , but athletes weren't using them to enhance their performance until, i think, the late 60's and i don't think it was widespread until at least ten years later, but correct me if I'm wrong. Bodybuilders were probably the first, and the wrestling bosses were pretty much making their employees do it . Wrestling was filthy with all kinds of drugs in the 80's. of course there were exceptions, like Killer Kowalski, who was a teetotalling vegetarian, and a very interesting man.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
ON a more serious note, the real big issue in performance from PED"s is the joint issues it causes. (and turning your ball sac into a raison sac).
Overdoing anything will cause problems. There are all sorts of ways to abuse your body...most definitely including just plain old boxing! All of these drug fighting outfits are corrupt , and the higher up you go in "the war on drugs" the more corrupt it gets
LIsten my man, all these organizations and causes are to make someone money. EVERYTHING! even Not for profits make their executives rich. People pretend to care but it's all BS.
You got that right, Boogywoogy Man!
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
I don't think the "old timers" were doing it before the mid or late sixties. Like the bodybuilding champs by year i mentioned before, look at wrestlers from the early 60's and before and you will see men with normal looking physiques, a far cry from Superstar and his friends.
Of course, you're talking the Superstar! Steroids were used before that time not for body building but for quickening the healing process.
Limited medical experimentation , but athletes weren't using them to enhance their performance until, i think, the late 60's and i don't think it was widespread until at least ten years later, but correct me if I'm wrong. Bodybuilders were probably the first, and the wrestling bosses were pretty much making their employees do it . Wrestling was filthy with all kinds of drugs in the 80's. of course there were exceptions, like Killer Kowalski, who was a teetotalling vegetarian, and a very interesting man.
No, you are correct. Killer Kowalski! That guy must've been 80 y/o when I last saw him wrestle!
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Rob - you are hilarious! I'm using aluminum foil! LMAO!
Quiet please , Oogyboogy. Stop giggling. I am about to speak.
"Tin foil hat" because i correctly stated the nature of organized crime's very own city in the Mohave Desert? Perhaps you think Doc Goodman and her VADA outfit got to the big time in Mafia Vegas by being little miss nice and honest and do what's right and who cares what the bosses want?
Oh and for the record, Anthony Joshua is tested by UK Anti-Doping (UKAD) which is well known as one of the most stringent anti doping regulators in the world. I can't speak too readily for the USADA, but you think it is so easy to dodge drug testers. Everyone gets caught eventually.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Rob - you are hilarious! I'm using aluminum foil! LMAO!
Quiet please , Oogyboogy. Stop giggling. I am about to speak.
"Tin foil hat" because i correctly stated the nature of organized crime's very own city in the Mohave Desert? Perhaps you think Doc Goodman and her VADA outfit got to the big time in Mafia Vegas by being little miss nice and honest and do what's right and who cares what the bosses want?
Next thing you know, You'll tell me that Superstar Billy Graham took steroids!
Hey, Mister Woogyboogy - i was watching youtubes about the murder of the wrestler Bruiser Brody last night and one of the interviewees was Superstar BG:
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Once again, Wilder was 214 lb in his last fight, but still holds the advantages over Povetkin (229 lb) and the like. Also, would you stop Wilder fighting Joshua and Fury? Because clearly Joshua and Fury holds a significant weight advant...... oh wait, you consider Wilder v Joshua to be a gross mismatch?
It's clear that you're tripping up over your own feet here, saying stupid things, changing your mind then having to re-position yourself. Why don't you go away, have a think, maybe write it all down on a piece of paper, and come back to us?
Again, you either keep missing the point or ignoring the point!
Wilder ONLY once, in his last 10 fights weighed as low as he did against Luis Ortiz. That's an exception and not the norm. That was because he was ill. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Wilder's ideal weight is around the 230 pound mark. And I believe he'll weigh around 230 pounds at peak condition if / when he fights Anthony Joshua.
Deontay Wilder around the 230 pound mark is significantly different from blown up cruiser weights like Alexander Povetkin. That's because unlike those blown up cruiser weights, Wilder carries almost no NON-FUNCTIONAL weight. Wilder is 230 pounds of almost exclusively muscles and functional weight composition. The same isn't the case with Alexander Povetkin and other 'fake' heavyweights or blown up cruisers / light heavies.
Still on that theme? If Povetkin is a "blown up cruiserweight/light heavy" I'm a blown up featherweight. Povetkin is 6'2" and about 230 (when i was boxing i was 6' or 6'1" about 210). Povetkin has no excess fat. The problem is you are used to looking at (protected) dopers like Joshua and Wilder etc. who have the unnaturally cut up physique. Povetkin has the physique of a normal natural athlete, same as heavyweight champs generally had before roids were invented.
Jack Dempsey, heavyweight champ for seven years, 1919 - 1926, long before roids were invented.
John L. Sullivan, the first gloved heavyweight champ for ten years, 1882-92, long long before roids were invented.
Povetkin - he's the one on the left.
I don't really disagree with you! And your point is basically my point too. That Povetkin's lack of artificial athletic enhancement is what doesn't qualify him as a legit heavyweight today, when he has to compete against artificially enhanced athletes and super heavyweights like Anthony Joshua in an EXTREME uneven playing field.
It's basically similar to a car race between two drivers. But one driver is allowed to use all of the 21st century technology in their car whilst the other driver isn't and has to use the technology of the 1980's. What happens then? We have an uneven playing field and the competition becomes totally unfair as a result. The driver with the 21st century technology is going to have, almost an astronomical advantage over the other driver.
It's the same here. A Povetkin who is relatively more natural and clean, has no business and shouldn't even be allowed to face artificially enhanced modern day SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT freaks like Anthony Joshua. It'd be a total mismatch! An artificially enhanced Alexander Povetkin would resemble something like Ike Ibeabuchi or Brock Lesnar. Only then, would he qualify as a legitimate threat to the likes of Anthony Joshua and only then would I consider him a credible heavyweight.
My point is, the fight is a total mismatch because how uneven the playing field is. And therefore, Joshua deserves pretty much no credit for beating Povetkin. At best, Joshua deserves no credit or criticism if he beats and destroys Povetkin easily, without any difficulties and in a very short time . At worst, Joshua deserves extreme criticism if he even has a slightly difficult time and isn't capable of totally annihilating Povetkin in a very short time with the utmost ease.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Once again, Wilder was 214 lb in his last fight, but still holds the advantages over Povetkin (229 lb) and the like. Also, would you stop Wilder fighting Joshua and Fury? Because clearly Joshua and Fury holds a significant weight advant...... oh wait, you consider Wilder v Joshua to be a gross mismatch?
It's clear that you're tripping up over your own feet here, saying stupid things, changing your mind then having to re-position yourself. Why don't you go away, have a think, maybe write it all down on a piece of paper, and come back to us?
Again, you either keep missing the point or ignoring the point!
Wilder ONLY once, in his last 10 fights weighed as low as he did against Luis Ortiz. That's an exception and not the norm. That was because he was ill. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Wilder's ideal weight is around the 230 pound mark. And I believe he'll weigh around 230 pounds at peak condition if / when he fights Anthony Joshua.
Deontay Wilder around the 230 pound mark is significantly different from blown up cruiser weights like Alexander Povetkin. That's because unlike those blown up cruiser weights, Wilder carries almost no NON-FUNCTIONAL weight. Wilder is 230 pounds of almost exclusively muscles and functional weight composition. The same isn't the case with Alexander Povetkin and other 'fake' heavyweights or blown up cruisers / light heavies.
Surely all weight can be functional? Do you not just mean fat?
Yes! There's a significant difference between a muscular 230 pound man with 10% body fat vs a fat 230 pound man with 25% body fat and very little muscles.
oogiebe wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 17:04
Wilder was a bit ill during training and dropped some weight, so what? Povetkin is a big man...big wrist, ankles, etc. IF he dropped 30 LBS, he'd be non-functioning at this point of his career. IMHO.
I've seen Povetkin in person and I can assure you that he is smaller than some current cruiser weights. He is EXTREMELY small for today's heavyweight division and that makes his achievements even greater because he absolutely has no business fighting in the current heavyweight division as a result. His hands, fist size and muscle size is EXTREMELY small compared to most of the other SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS. Especially the elite ones!
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Once again, Wilder was 214 lb in his last fight, but still holds the advantages over Povetkin (229 lb) and the like. Also, would you stop Wilder fighting Joshua and Fury? Because clearly Joshua and Fury holds a significant weight advant...... oh wait, you consider Wilder v Joshua to be a gross mismatch?
It's clear that you're tripping up over your own feet here, saying stupid things, changing your mind then having to re-position yourself. Why don't you go away, have a think, maybe write it all down on a piece of paper, and come back to us?
Again, you either keep missing the point or ignoring the point!
Wilder ONLY once, in his last 10 fights weighed as low as he did against Luis Ortiz. That's an exception and not the norm. That was because he was ill. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Wilder's ideal weight is around the 230 pound mark. And I believe he'll weigh around 230 pounds at peak condition if / when he fights Anthony Joshua.
Deontay Wilder around the 230 pound mark is significantly different from blown up cruiser weights like Alexander Povetkin. That's because unlike those blown up cruiser weights, Wilder carries almost no NON-FUNCTIONAL weight. Wilder is 230 pounds of almost exclusively muscles and functional weight composition. The same isn't the case with Alexander Povetkin and other 'fake' heavyweights or blown up cruisers / light heavies.
What point are you making? Joshua weighed in his lightest in 11 fights. It's a nothing argument. Wilder was not 'ill', at least not to the point that would have caused him to lose 10 lb's. He didn't all of a sudden contract Addison's disease.
Alexander Povetkin may not be 0% body fat, but to presume he is carrying 30 lb of excessive fat is absurd. You're points of argument are so extreme, you're either bipolar, or you have no normal perception of real life.
Point is, Wilder, unlike Povetkin carries almost no visible fat. And Wilder has weighed over 225 pounds of almost pure muscle, unlike Povetkin.
And Povetkin is smaller than many current cruiser weights.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Again, you either keep missing the point or ignoring the point!
Wilder ONLY once, in his last 10 fights weighed as low as he did against Luis Ortiz. That's an exception and not the norm. That was because he was ill. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Wilder's ideal weight is around the 230 pound mark. And I believe he'll weigh around 230 pounds at peak condition if / when he fights Anthony Joshua.
Deontay Wilder around the 230 pound mark is significantly different from blown up cruiser weights like Alexander Povetkin. That's because unlike those blown up cruiser weights, Wilder carries almost no NON-FUNCTIONAL weight. Wilder is 230 pounds of almost exclusively muscles and functional weight composition. The same isn't the case with Alexander Povetkin and other 'fake' heavyweights or blown up cruisers / light heavies.
What point are you making? Joshua weighed in his lightest in 11 fights. It's a nothing argument. Wilder was not 'ill', at least not to the point that would have caused him to lose 10 lb's. He didn't all of a sudden contract Addison's disease.
Alexander Povetkin may not be 0% body fat, but to presume he is carrying 30 lb of excessive fat is absurd. You're points of argument are so extreme, you're either bipolar, or you have no normal perception of real life.
Point is, Wilder, unlike Povetkin carries almost no visible fat. And Wilder has weighed over 225 pounds of almost pure muscle, unlike Povetkin.
And Povetkin is smaller than many current cruiser weights.
I can imagine (well I know) that Povetkin weighs at least 30 lb more than any cruiserweight. Just as any boxing coach will tell you, body weight will determine how you throw a punch, and how stepping into the punch (using body weight) will determine the weight of the punch.
There are numerous heavyweight boxers with height and reach that possess much less power than Povekin and David Haye in their punches.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Again, you either keep missing the point or ignoring the point!
Wilder ONLY once, in his last 10 fights weighed as low as he did against Luis Ortiz. That's an exception and not the norm. That was because he was ill. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Wilder's ideal weight is around the 230 pound mark. And I believe he'll weigh around 230 pounds at peak condition if / when he fights Anthony Joshua.
Deontay Wilder around the 230 pound mark is significantly different from blown up cruiser weights like Alexander Povetkin. That's because unlike those blown up cruiser weights, Wilder carries almost no NON-FUNCTIONAL weight. Wilder is 230 pounds of almost exclusively muscles and functional weight composition. The same isn't the case with Alexander Povetkin and other 'fake' heavyweights or blown up cruisers / light heavies.
Still on that theme? If Povetkin is a "blown up cruiserweight/light heavy" I'm a blown up featherweight. Povetkin is 6'2" and about 230 (when i was boxing i was 6' or 6'1" about 210). Povetkin has no excess fat. The problem is you are used to looking at (protected) dopers like Joshua and Wilder etc. who have the unnaturally cut up physique. Povetkin has the physique of a normal natural athlete, same as heavyweight champs generally had before roids were invented.
Jack Dempsey, heavyweight champ for seven years, 1919 - 1926, long before roids were invented.
John L. Sullivan, the first gloved heavyweight champ for ten years, 1882-92, long long before roids were invented.
Povetkin - he's the one on the left.
I don't really disagree with you! And your point is basically my point too. That Povetkin's lack of artificial athletic enhancement is what doesn't qualify him as a legit heavyweight today, when he has to compete against artificially enhanced athletes and super heavyweights like Anthony Joshua in an EXTREME uneven playing field.
It's basically similar to a car race between two drivers. But one driver is allowed to use all of the 21st century technology in their car whilst the other driver isn't and has to use the technology of the 1980's. What happens then? We have an uneven playing field and the competition becomes totally unfair as a result. The driver with the 21st century technology is going to have, almost an astronomical advantage over the other driver.
It's the same here. A Povetkin who is relatively more natural and clean, has no business and shouldn't even be allowed to face artificially enhanced modern day SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT freaks like Anthony Joshua. It'd be a total mismatch! An artificially enhanced Alexander Povetkin would resemble something like Ike Ibeabuchi or Brock Lesnar. Only then, would he qualify as a legitimate threat to the likes of Anthony Joshua and only then would I consider him a credible heavyweight.
My point is, the fight is a total mismatch because how uneven the playing field is. And therefore, Joshua deserves pretty much no credit for beating Povetkin. At best, Joshua deserves no credit or criticism if he beats and destroys Povetkin easily, without any difficulties and in a very short time . At worst, Joshua deserves extreme criticism if he even has a slightly difficult time and isn't capable of totally annihilating Povetkin in a very short time with the utmost ease.
Drugs aren't magic. I still pick Povetkin to KO the big name western dopers with alacrity, despite all their gangster enablers and handlers and refs and judges and personal doctors and drug pushers and Las Vegas and London drug tester crews - but i don't believe the western boxing mobs will let their two precious cash cows fight him, despite the Fakenews stories They are salivating at the thought of making a lot of money with a wilder-joshua "sports entertainment" show.
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 00:35
by Rob3_142
x2x wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 18:49
Drugs aren't magic. I still pick Povetkin to KO the big name western dopers with alacrity, despite all their gangster enablers and handlers and refs and judges and personal doctors and drug pushers and Las Vegas and London drug tester crews - but i don't believe the western boxing mobs will let their two precious cash cows fight him, despite the Fakenews stories They are salivating at the thought of making a lot of money with a wilder-joshua "sports entertainment" show.
London drug tester crews?
Re: sounds like AJ will give up WBA title if SASHA wins purse bid --- HEARN !
Posted: 29 Apr 2018, 05:56
by Thomastearns
Regarding physique, it was long held that being overly muscled was a disadvantage in terms of speed, stamina and flexibility. Frank Bruno's fantastic physique was said to be a weakness, and it seemed to be the case whenever a fight went beyond 6 rounds (which wasn't often in his early career). Despite, or perhaps because of his immaculately chiselled frame, Frank Bruno was a radically different boxer in the two halves of a 15 round fight.
However in the last decade or so we see fighters with superhero style muscles who don't suffer the same drawbacks as mentioned above. Until there is any evidence to suggest otherwise we have to accept that this is down to modern training methods.
Maybe also needing only 12 rounds nowadays is also a factor favouring muscles over stamina. In Dempsey's day you dared not overlook stamina. If you gassed you were dead - the fights were brutal and the referees offered little protection.
give over!
