BoxRec

People don't usually smile when they get ko'd by body shots.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:09

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:05
Even though Rocky Fielding was overmatched and hand-picked by GBP to lose... and lose spectacularly, the Brit was a much better opponent than Vanes Martirosyan.

You silly boy. Unable to see the factors surrounding that choice of opponent. What an easy world you live in when everything is black or white.

Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Not surprised you have completely missed the point! Either you're being dishonest or you are that silly. I'm even bolding my comment for your attention. You can still argue the other things but you can do that with yourself and in your own time as I imagine you often do have lengthy debates with yourself, in your dungeon whilst wearing a coat made of womens skin.

klitoris wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:05

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:02

Agree. Golden boy know how to pick them.

Even though Rocky Fielding was overmatched and hand-picked by GBP to lose... and lose spectacularly, the Brit was a much better opponent than Vanes Martirosyan.

Golovkin's team only had like 2-3 weeks to find an opponent before the fight date because of Canelo's drug test fail. GB had all the time in the world since September to find Canelo a decent opponent.

Tom Loeffler actually had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement for Canelo.

In stark contrast, GBP already had Spike O’Sullivan lined up to face Canelo if GGG somehow had to withdraw from the bout.

Decent promoters ensure that they have decent substitute opponents in place for PPV events.

Do you really want to attempt to challenge me on this? If so, then bring it on!

Unlike you, I’m already armed with facts. I am not a revisionist historian, who argues based on guesswork.

squiggy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:20

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:19

squiggy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:13 I'd wager he was up about 50-32 on the cards at the stoppage.

WTF!

Judges've been known to give the lad a boost here and then, is the joke I was making.

You also gave Fieldings a boost though. Shouldn't he have 24 points?

godosin wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:38

squiggy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:20

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:19

WTF!

Judges've been known to give the lad a boost here and then, is the joke I was making.

You also gave Fieldings a boost though. Shouldn't he have 24 points?

These particular hypothetical judges had done a tab of acid an hour or so beforehand.

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:37

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:09

You silly boy. Unable to see the factors surrounding that choice of opponent. What an easy world you live in when everything is black or white.

Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Not surprised you have completely missed the point! Either you're being dishonest or you are that silly. I'm even bolding my comment for your attention. You can still argue the other things but you can do that with yourself and in your own time as I imagine you often do have lengthy debates with yourself, in your dungeon whilst wearing a coat made of womens skin.

Elaborate on your point and let’s see if I haven’t already addressed it?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:41

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:37

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31
Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Not surprised you have completely missed the point! Either you're being dishonest or you are that silly. I'm even bolding my comment for your attention. You can still argue the other things but you can do that with yourself and in your own time as I imagine you often do have lengthy debates with yourself, in your dungeon whilst wearing a coat made of womens skin.

Elaborate on your point and let’s see if I haven’t already addressed it?

Why would I give you rope for you to attempt to recover and argument you lost months ago. Argue it with yourself, maybe you'd get a victory.

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:44

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:41

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:37

Not surprised you have completely missed the point! Either you're being dishonest or you are that silly. I'm even bolding my comment for your attention. You can still argue the other things but you can do that with yourself and in your own time as I imagine you often do have lengthy debates with yourself, in your dungeon whilst wearing a coat made of womens skin.

Elaborate on your point and let’s see if I haven’t already addressed it?

Why would I give you rope for you to attempt to recover and argument you lost months ago. Argue it with yourself, maybe you'd get a victory.

So in other words, you haven’t actually got a valid point to make yet? You just wanted to criticise my post without explaining the
justification for your critique.

Fielding was a better opponent for Canelo than Martirosyan was for GGG.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:09

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:05
Even though Rocky Fielding was overmatched and hand-picked by GBP to lose... and lose spectacularly, the Brit was a much better opponent than Vanes Martirosyan.

You silly boy. Unable to see the factors surrounding that choice of opponent. What an easy world you live in when everything is black or white.

Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Come on, I dare you! Let’s see what you can do?

What can you do other than give BoxRec stats with no context? It's hilarious since you take it like quoting BoxRec resumes means anything to someone that actually watches boxing. I've seen both fighters. Vanes is truly a better fighter all around than Fielding. It's no contest. We knew both fighters would lose going into their respective bouts, that much is true, but Martirosyan is world-level at his best, Fielding has never been world-level.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:47

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:44

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:41
Elaborate on your point and let’s see if I haven’t already addressed it?

Why would I give you rope for you to attempt to recover and argument you lost months ago. Argue it with yourself, maybe you'd get a victory.

So in other words, you haven’t actually got a valid point to make yet? You just wanted to criticise my post without explaining the
justification for your critique.

Fielding was a better opponent for Canelo than Martirosyan was for GGG.

So in other words, you're still emotional at the users involved for besting you in an arguments surrounding GGG's opponent following the Canelo withdrawal and are wanting an attempt at salvage after more than half a year.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:50

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:09

You silly boy. Unable to see the factors surrounding that choice of opponent. What an easy world you live in when everything is black or white.

Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Come on, I dare you! Let’s see what you can do?

What can you do other than give BoxRec stats with no context? It's hilarious since you take it like quoting BoxRec resumes means anything to someone that actually watches boxing. I've seen both fighters. Vanes is truly a better fighter all around than Fielding. It's no contest. We knew both fighters would lose going into their respective bouts, that much is true, but Martirosyan is world-level at his best, Fielding has never been world-level.

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:53

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:47

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:44

Why would I give you rope for you to attempt to recover and argument you lost months ago. Argue it with yourself, maybe you'd get a victory.

So in other words, you haven’t actually got a valid point to make yet? You just wanted to criticise my post without explaining the
justification for your critique.

Fielding was a better opponent for Canelo than Martirosyan was for GGG.

So in other words, you're still emotional at the users involved for besting you in an arguments surrounding GGG's opponent following the Canelo withdrawal and are wanting an attempt at salvage after more than half a year.

You haven’t elaborated on your point, have you? You’ve changed the topic, because you cannot justify your criticism.

And let’s address your comments in this post, shall we...

I not only won that argument, but I also constantly criticised Tom Loeffler’s procrastinating at finding a replacement for Canelo from around the nine mark prior to GGG’s bout against Martirosyan.

Read through the threads, you’ll surely appreciate the amount of criticism that Loeffler received from myself and several others.

When Canelo failed the VADA test, Loeffler did fûck all, he decided to wait until the Mexican withdrew from the bout.

Operation salvage in full swing.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:54

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:50

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:31
Why don’t we have a discussion relating to the comparison between the resumes of Fielding and Martirosyan based on their accomplishments during the 3½ years prior to their respective bouts against Canelo and GGG?

This is going to be an extremely easy one-sided debate for me to win!

Come on, I dare you! Let’s see what you can do?

What can you do other than give BoxRec stats with no context? It's hilarious since you take it like quoting BoxRec resumes means anything to someone that actually watches boxing. I've seen both fighters. Vanes is truly a better fighter all around than Fielding. It's no contest. We knew both fighters would lose going into their respective bouts, that much is true, but Martirosyan is world-level at his best, Fielding has never been world-level.

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The belts also refused Munguia who became a top fighter at 154. You put a lot of emphasis on the belts when any knowledgeable poster knows their rankings mean nothing. Hell, the IBF are the same ones that had Dominic Wade rated highly.

I can't believe you are using belt rankings to defend your position. As I said, you have nothing other than throwing a bunch of really dumb stats at me.

You're seriously saying that Fielding is better, in a p4p sense, than Martirosyan? You also forget that Martirosyan hadn't beaten a top fighter because he had a layoff and his fight before Golovkin happened to be against the best 154 fighter at the time.

Why not compare apples to apples and look at the vast difference in levels when Fielding fought Smith as opposed to when Martirosyan fought Lara then you'll understand. As I said, you don't watch fights. You only have dumb stats to throw at everyone. Why are you even on a boxing forum if you never talk boxing at all!? It's ridiculous arguing with you.

Callum Smith next for Canelo?

He won’t stick around for him, no chance.

Hopefully Canelo vs Jacobs happening in May .

Canelo totally dominated Fielding. I expected a later KO, but everything was clear from the beginning. That's the difference in class.

lol at people who expected it to be more competetive. i expect Canelo vs Jacobs next. GGG and Canelo can defeat everyone in the weak 168 division. though Callum Smith would have some chances, especially vs Canelo.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:38

klitoris wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:05
Even though Rocky Fielding was overmatched and hand-picked by GBP to lose... and lose spectacularly, the Brit was a much better opponent than Vanes Martirosyan.

Golovkin's team only had like 2-3 weeks to find an opponent before the fight date because of Canelo's drug test fail. GB had all the time in the world since September to find Canelo a decent opponent.

Tom Loeffler actually had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement for Canelo.

In stark contrast, GBP already had Spike O’Sullivan lined up to face Canelo if GGG somehow had to withdraw from the bout.

Decent promoters ensure that they have decent substitute opponents in place for PPV events.

Do you really want to attempt to challenge me on this? If so, then bring it on!

Unlike you, I’m already armed with facts. I am not a revisionist historian, who argues based on guesswork.

TBF, they had to find someone who was willing to be paid $200k..

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:33

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:30 - Big Canelo fan, but agree that was too easy.

Still, fighting 3 months after back to back Golovkin fights is impressive not to mention becoming the highest paid athlete in all sports. Yet Rocky was smiling when the ref waved it off.

Maybe Rocky froze in the spotlight, but good news is Canelo has an open date in May at MGM with no shortage of willing opponents.

Come to think of it he was smiling a lot. Was that suspicious?

I remember Beefy Smith laughing every time he was hit against Munguia.. but then again Beefy’s got that face.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 07:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:38

klitoris wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:32

Golovkin's team only had like 2-3 weeks to find an opponent before the fight date because of Canelo's drug test fail. GB had all the time in the world since September to find Canelo a decent opponent.

Tom Loeffler actually had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement for Canelo.

In stark contrast, GBP already had Spike O’Sullivan lined up to face Canelo if GGG somehow had to withdraw from the bout.

Decent promoters ensure that they have decent substitute opponents in place for PPV events.

Do you really want to attempt to challenge me on this? If so, then bring it on!

Unlike you, I’m already armed with facts. I am not a revisionist historian, who argues based on guesswork.

TBF, they had to find someone who was willing to be paid $200k..

GGG isn’t big enough name to carry a PPV on his own. HBO weren’t going to break the budget on an opponent like Vanes Martirosyan.

I feel this was mainly Loeffler’s fault for failing to plan for contingencies, but Gennady is also responsible, as it was solely his own promotional company that promoted the event.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:33

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:30 - Big Canelo fan, but agree that was too easy.

Still, fighting 3 months after back to back Golovkin fights is impressive not to mention becoming the highest paid athlete in all sports. Yet Rocky was smiling when the ref waved it off.

Maybe Rocky froze in the spotlight, but good news is Canelo has an open date in May at MGM with no shortage of willing opponents.

Come to think of it he was smiling a lot. Was that suspicious?

Well I doubt he was taking a dive. He’s levels below Canelo he wouldn’t need to. Some boxers do smile and react weirdly when in trouble

Saying that, Canelo is a drug cheating scumbag and the whole rehydration thing was gross too

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 10:35

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 07:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:38
Tom Loeffler actually had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement for Canelo.

In stark contrast, GBP already had Spike O’Sullivan lined up to face Canelo if GGG somehow had to withdraw from the bout.

Decent promoters ensure that they have decent substitute opponents in place for PPV events.

Do you really want to attempt to challenge me on this? If so, then bring it on!

Unlike you, I’m already armed with facts. I am not a revisionist historian, who argues based on guesswork.

TBF, they had to find someone who was willing to be paid $200k..

GGG isn’t big enough name to carry a PPV on his own. HBO weren’t going to break the budget on an opponent like Vanes Martirosyan.

I feel this was mainly Loeffler’s fault for failing to plan for contingencies, but Gennady is also responsible, as it was solely his own promotional company that promoted the event.

Yeh. The failed drug test came out in Feb I believe. Giving Tom plenty of time. Then there was a change of venue and having it on non-HBO. These factors definately played a part in not finding a suitable opponent.

Munguia was declined by the commissions and look what he’s end up doing? I bet no one would mind that now. Spike I think didn’t want to be paid too less. He wanted at least $500k I think.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:38

klitoris wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018, 01:05
Even though Rocky Fielding was overmatched and hand-picked by GBP to lose... and lose spectacularly, the Brit was a much better opponent than Vanes Martirosyan.

Golovkin's team only had like 2-3 weeks to find an opponent before the fight date because of Canelo's drug test fail. GB had all the time in the world since September to find Canelo a decent opponent.

Tom Loeffler actually had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement for Canelo.

In stark contrast, GBP already had Spike O’Sullivan lined up to face Canelo if GGG somehow had to withdraw from the bout.

Decent promoters ensure that they have decent substitute opponents in place for PPV events.

Do you really want to attempt to challenge me on this? If so, then bring it on!

Unlike you, I’m already armed with facts. I am not a revisionist historian, who argues based on guesswork.

Facts? I'll give you some facts:
March 23 - NSAC Officially suspends Alvarez for testing positive to two drug tests (5 weeks before April 27)
March 28 - T-Mobile Arena starts offering refunds on tickets (4 weeks before April 27)
April 3rd - Canelo officially withdraws from the bout (less than 3 weeks before April 27)

Where in the hell do you see 9 weeks in there?

On another note why are you bringing Golovkin into this? Does anyone deny that Martirosyan was a weak opponent? No! Neither does GGG not his promoter! But we can let it slip to a certain extend since GGG had only a limited time to find a credible opponent (which btw could of been Munguia but NSCA denied).


The FACT OF THE MATTER is that between September 15 and December 15 THERE ARE 13 WEEKS. If you really think that drawing some analogy to GGG or any other fighters that claim to be the best but fought weak opponents on little notice in order to justify this trash mismatch that we witnessed yesterday, its not going to work. Even if you do except the analogy to some degree and look back that GGG's promotional company got a tonne of criticism for fighting Martirosyan, this warrants twice or three times as much criticism for Canelo because:
1) GBP had as significant amount of time to organize the fight
2) Canelo is the biggest cash cow in the business, he has the biggest financial motivating factors into luring fighters into fighting him
3) There were plenty of top fighters at 160 and 168 available to fight.

Why fight this horrible mismatch a fighter that got KTFO in one round by Smith? In my opinion this is not much different than Garcia fighting Salka and should get the same type of criticism.

Canelo submitted the positive tests on the 17th and the 20th February. Team GGG would have received notification of this prior to the media disclosing this information to the public on the 6th March.

Golovkin faced Martirosyan on the 5th May.

This is basic maths! How many days transpired between those two dates?

Team GGG should have had a replacement opponent lined up, instead of waiting until the second half is of April to find one.

Other promoters have substitute opponents lined up for their PPV dates, so why does Tom Loeffler and GGG Promotions receive a free pass for not bothering to have one?