BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 11:47

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 11:31
What are you hoping to achieve by this question?

And why haven’t you bothered to research the answer for yourself?

If very few small fighters (i.e. those weighing less than 220lbs) were even given title shots within the last twenty years, then the resulting win/loss ratio is utterly meaningless.

For instance, if you review the WBC’s world heavyweight title fights within the last twenty years, Deontay Wilder is the only man to have ever fought for that championship weighing less than 220lbs.

And he’s only ever done so on four separate occasions, winning three times.

But there have been 38 WBC world heavyweight title fights and nine titleholders within the last twenty years!

There hasn’t been a single fighter that fought for the WBO version of the world heavyweight title within the last decade weighing less than 220lbs.

Vyacheslav Glazkov and Jean Marc Mormeck were the only IBF title challengers within the last decade that weighed less than 220lbs. They were both KO’d rather quickly.

David Haye competed in two WBA world heavyweight title bouts within the last decade weighing less than 220lbs (winning one and losing the other). Jean Marc Mormeck challenged for the same title, but was KO’d rather quickly (as per the IBF title bout).

So what?

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 12:24

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 03:34
The statistics prove that size really does matter (i.e. a good big man beats a good little man) and also that smaller heavyweights (those weighing less than 220lbs) have achieved very little success in the heavyweight division within the last twenty years.

I feel the statistics I’ve supplied cannot possibly be interpreted in any other way.

It depends on their on their body mass composition, but I get what you’re saying.

Personally-speaking, I’m against the idea of creating a new weight division named “super heavyweights”.

I’m much more in favour of creating something that could possibly be named as the “super-cruiserweight” division, with the lower limit of the existing heavyweight division increased from 200lbs to 225lbs.

And considering the fact that most current heavyweights weigh in the region of 245lbs, this should have minimal impact on today’s heaviest weight class (i.e. it won't affect the name of the weight class, most heavyweight competitors, the divisions' legacy or its current prestigious status).

I think the new (201lbs to 225lbs) weight division (as per the cruiserweights) would probably take at least a decade to fifteen years to gain credibility, to become established enough to the point it would become capable of providing competitors with decent paydays.

In the meantime, I reckon most heavyweights would continue to compete in their natural habitat weighing more than 225lbs, because that's where the biggest payday opportunities lie.

In my mind, it seems inevitable for the current iteration of the heavyweight division to eventually be split into two, resulting in the creation of an additional weight class, mainly due to safety reasons and also to level the playing field.

What cannot be refuted is the size gap between 200lbs cruiserweights and top-tier world-rated heavyweights continues to grow as time passes by, because human beings are getting increasing bigger per generation, which means that something has to eventually happen in order to fill that void.

You're missing multiple points here.

First of all, the reason guys under 220 have little success at HW is because most of them fight at CW. Anyone under 220 has the option of fighting at CW if they want to.

Second of all, your suggestion to create a SCW division instead of a SHW division is really just semantics, isn't it? So you keep the no-limit HW division to preserve the history, but you create a new SCW division. Who fights in this division? The tiny subset of fighters who weigh around 225-235 who can't make CW but don't want to be at a size disadvantage? So what are you left with? A division made pretty much just for Wilder and Povetkin? Would they even want to compete in that new division? What would a guy like Usyk who wants to move from CW to HW do? He's not even big enough to break the 225 limit so would he even be allowed to fight at HW?

The UFC has shown that the difference between an elite CW (or LHW as they're called in UFC) and elite HW is very minimal. Daniel Cormier was a 235 pound HW. He moved down to 205 and won a title. Then moved back up to HW and won a title. Ryan Bader did the same in Bellator. Jon Jones could have undoubtedly done the same. There is just no need for an additional weight class.

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 12:47 Except most cruiserweights weigh more than 200 pounds. You are ignoring the reality of the situation.

The only time Haye could maybe not have made the CW limit is after he retired and put on a bunch of extra weight. When he fought Wlad he weighed 210 and could easily have made CW.

Right now the only fighters you could successfully argue are getting screwed are the handful who naturally weigh in the 195-200 range, who realistically can't make the LHW limit but may be outsized by many CWs. But in practice this is not such a huge problem because most guys who weigh around 220 and are good enough to compete at HW do so.

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 12:47 Except most cruiserweights weigh more than 200 pounds. You are ignoring the reality of the situation.

Ghost Town Ghost wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 13:34 Agree wholeheartedly with Gilgamesh and others that we need LESS divisions. Boxing is the greatest sport in the world, and there is a reason for that. Let the smaller heavies go at it with the bigger guys!

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 13:36 Hell aside from that, think of how much better the Welterweight division would be if there was no 140 pound weight class? Think of how much better Middleweight would be if there was no 154?

Ghost Town Ghost wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 13:34 Agree wholeheartedly with Gilgamesh and others that we need LESS divisions. Boxing is the greatest sport in the world, and there is a reason for that. Let the smaller heavies go at it with the bigger guys!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:16

Ghost Town Ghost wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 13:34 Agree wholeheartedly with Gilgamesh and others that we need LESS divisions. Boxing is the greatest sport in the world, and there is a reason for that. Let the smaller heavies go at it with the bigger guys!

I'll put my money on the smaller heavyweights.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:18

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:16

I'll put my money on the smaller heavyweights.

Okay, I'll take Fury and AJ, who you got?

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:16I’ll put my money on the smaller heavyweights.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:27 Ya, little Deontay at 6'7 225 with an 83 in reach (and just battered by big Tys but somehow still close to even money)

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:32

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:27 Ya, little Deontay at 6'7 225 with an 83 in reach (and just battered by big Tys but somehow still close to even money)

He got creamed last time out no doubt. But chins usually don't get better; curious to see how he handles Deontay's right hand, if he can land with it. Also Fury's lifestyle has been interesting to say the least. I didn't say close to even money, but any outcome other than a Wilder decision would not surprise me.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:27

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:16I’ll put my money on the smaller heavyweights.

If you placed your life savings predicting that a lot of small heavyweights would be successful during the last twenty years or so, you would have already been declared bankrupt by now.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:27
If you placed your life savings predicting that a lot of small heavyweights would be successful during the last twenty years or so, you would have already been declared bankrupt by now.

I would have lost money on the corrupt Valuev-Holy fight. Many thought Hunter beat Povetkin. Hunter and Usyk can hold their own against most bigger men. And Wilder has only lost once.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:38 Yet he fought so much better at 212. Had a draw with Fury. Previous six fights was under 225. At 231, he looked awful. It's almost like there is a pattern there.

Didn't Fury fight little Steve Cunningham ?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:38 Yet he fought so much better at 212. Had a draw with Fury. Previous six fights was under 225. At 231, he looked awful. It's almost like there is a pattern there.

Didn't Fury fight little Steve Cunningham ?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 13:16

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 12:47 Except most cruiserweights weigh more than 200 pounds. You are ignoring the reality of the situation.

Are you seriously claiming that all small heavyweights are physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit?

The size gap between rehydrated 200lb-ers and typical 245lbs+ world-rated heavyweights is still very significant.

There will definitely be small heavyweights that are too small to be competitive against 245lb-ers, whilst also being physically incapable of competing effectively at 200lbs.

You are ignoring the real-world reason why weight classes exist.

And you are also ignoring the statistical reality of the situation, related to the amount of success small heavyweights weighing less than 225lbs have achieved in our beloved sport within the last decade.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 11:47 or is just goofs like you with no respect for the sport.