BoxRec

Bandog wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 07:44

DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 10:50

To equal Terrell with Fury is silly.

I didn't say Terrell was equal, I was just giving an example of Ali dominating someone with good skill that is much bigger than he was. Truth be told I don't think Fury would be a problem for someone as slick as Ali was. I am probably one of the few that thinks AJ will KO Fury with an uppercut. Fury stunned himself with his own uppercut a few years back.

Ali dominated Terrell, who had good skills and was bigger, but those skills obviously aren't comparable with Fury's one. You and Alpy boy can laugh as much as you want at the one of the first pro-fights of Fury. That didn't affect Fury's further growth, dethroning the two champs with the prolonged reigns and either that won't affect anything in Fury-Joshua bout. Joshua will be outclassed.

DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 08:06

Bandog wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 07:44

I didn't say Terrell was equal, I was just giving an example of Ali dominating someone with good skill that is much bigger than he was. Truth be told I don't think Fury would be a problem for someone as slick as Ali was. I am probably one of the few that thinks AJ will KO Fury with an uppercut. Fury stunned himself with his own uppercut a few years back.

Ali dominated Terrell, who had good skills and was bigger, but those skills obviously aren't comparable with Fury's one. You and Alpy boy can laugh as much as you want at the one of the first pro-fights of Fury. That didn't affect Fury's further growth, dethroning the two champs with the prolonged reigns and either that won't affect anything in Fury-Joshua bout. Joshua will be outclassed.

When it comes to Tyson, I'd say you were a bit biased. That's ok. Good to be a fan.

It's OK to be a fan of someone. Everyone does. Sometimes though, people go way overboard with it and rate their favorites way higher than they should. and/or rate guys they don't like much lower than they should.

We are supposed look at the "incredible growth" from his early fights. Just a year and half ago he got decked twice and had a draw against the great Wilder.
Since then he beat a couple of stiffs and then beat Wilder. for that, we are supposed to consider him a legend.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:55 It's OK to be a fan of someone. Everyone does. Sometimes though, people go way overboard with it and rate their favorites way higher than they should. and/or rate guys they don't like much lower than they should.

We are supposed look at the "incredible growth" from his early fights. Just a year and half ago he got decked twice and had a draw against the great Wilder.
Since then he beat a couple of stiffs and then beat Wilder. for that, we are supposed to consider him a legend.

Recency.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:55 It's OK to be a fan of someone. Everyone does. Sometimes though, people go way overboard with it and rate their favorites way higher than they should. and/or rate guys they don't like much lower than they should.

We are supposed look at the "incredible growth" from his early fights. Just a year and half ago he got decked twice and had a draw against the great Wilder.
Since then he beat a couple of stiffs and then beat Wilder. for that, we are supposed to consider him a legend.

I suspect his last few fights could be impressive, if he continues to sit down on his shots more, and actually use that size of his offensively, rather than shucking, jiving and picking and poking, he might turn out to be better than we all thought.

It's all an if at this stage mind, and right now, he's done nothing to be considered a legend.

I guess the next thing I will read here is that Henry Cooper hit harder than for example Joseph Parker of todays heavyweights...

Of course not. He didn't weigh as much. That's all that counts.
Obviously we should base Ali's career on a three-second knockdown in the 19th fight of his career. Forget that he won the fight and dominated it before the knockdown and after. Forget that he whipped Cooper three years later. Forget all the fights later.
Forget the footage of Ali in his prime. It's all an illusion. It's in black and white. That doesn't count.

We are in the Joseph Parker era. One great heavyweight fight after another.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:22 Of course not. He didn't weigh as much. That's all that counts.
Obviously we should base Ali's career on a three-second knockdown in the 19th fight of his career. Forget that he won the fight and dominated it before the knockdown and after. Forget that he whipped Cooper three years later. Forget all the fights later.
Forget the footage of Ali in his prime. It's all an illusion. It's in black and white. That doesn't count.

We are in the Joseph Parker era. One great heavyweight fight after another.

According to boxrec, Cooper beat a lot of guys that outweighed him by 20 pounds. Guess those must be misprints.

Also, Parker should be fighting at 20 pounds less than he is, like he did in the beginning of his career.

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:07 I guess the next thing I will read here is that Henry Cooper hit harder than for example Joseph Parker of todays heavyweights...

But...Cooper's left hook was a good one.

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:38

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:07 I guess the next thing I will read here is that Henry Cooper hit harder than for example Joseph Parker of todays heavyweights...

But...Cooper's left hook was a good one.

If getting knocked down by a smaller man is such an important criterian, isn't Fury "DQd" for being knocked down by Cunningham?

Tony1244 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:42

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 11:38

But...Cooper's left hook was a good one.

If getting knocked down by a smaller man is such an important criterian, isn't Fury "DQd" for being knocked down by Cunningham?

Oops! Can't bring that up. Doesn't fit the narrative!

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:41

DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 08:06

Ali dominated Terrell, who had good skills and was bigger, but those skills obviously aren't comparable with Fury's one. You and Alpy boy can laugh as much as you want at the one of the first pro-fights of Fury. That didn't affect Fury's further growth, dethroning the two champs with the prolonged reigns and either that won't affect anything in Fury-Joshua bout. Joshua will be outclassed.

When it comes to Tyson, I'd say you were a bit biased. That's ok. Good to be a fan.

Maybe I'm biased, but still I had to tell "Told ya so" after both Wilder fights. If Fury loses to Joshua, I'll say "OK, I was wrong", but up to the date I see Fury as the current clearly best heavyweight with a solid all-time ranking potential.

DrDuke wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 12:31

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 10:41
When it comes to Tyson, I'd say you were a bit biased. That's ok. Good to be a fan.

Maybe I'm biased, but still I had to tell "Told ya so" after both Wilder fights. If Fury loses to Joshua, I'll say "OK, I was wrong", but up to the date I see Fury as the current clearly best heavyweight with a solid all-time ranking potential.

He is clearly number one now, but let's wait until he retires to classify him as an ATG.

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020, 16:36

tiny_acres wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020, 10:22

X3
That post was borderline insane

X4
Obvious troll.

X5...……..

To use a (hopefully) better football analogy than earlier in this thread: Do you guys also think that Pele would be the worlds best footballer if he was timewarped at his best level to 2020?

Quit while your ahead..
Can't compare others sports to boxing.

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 13:06 To use a (hopefully) better football analogy than earlier in this thread: Do you guys also think that Pele would be the worlds best footballer if he was timewarped at his best level to 2020?

Remember far more people play football today than back in 1962. Far fewer people box in the US than in 1962. So generally football standards in the main may have risen whilst boxing ones may have not.

In any case talent follows its own rules and I'm pretty sure that players such as Garrincha, Pele, Best, Cruyff, Muller, Maradona etc would all standout in this or any other generation.

No amount of improvements in fitness or conditioning would ever nullify those levels of skill.

And this is despite before taking into account all of the changes in the game from boots, pitches and the actual footballs used.

Heck, many of today's players would just cry off the pitch demanding referee protection if faced with the conditions of yesteryear.
Neymar would presumably roll off.

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 13:06 To use a (hopefully) better football analogy than earlier in this thread: Do you guys also think that Pele would be the worlds best footballer if he was timewarped at his best level to 2020?

Depends how you're pitching your timewarp analogy.

If Pele appeared today with 1950s/1960s diets and training methods etc, then probably not, but give him 21st century training, diets, medical care, boot technology and lightweight balls, he almost certainly would be.

People have perpetually underrated Fury actually, he was the underdog at least 4 times in his career but never lost. It's not just some recency thing, people keep getting it wrong with him for nearly a decade now, and of course he beat Wlad 5 years ago now so it's not like he only just got his first notable win

Wouldn't be surprised if people eventually talk themselves into favouring Wilder in a 3rd fight, it's always been fashionable to seriously underestimate Fury

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:09 People have perpetually underrated Fury actually, he was the underdog at least 4 times in his career but never lost. It's not just some recency thing, people keep getting it wrong with him for nearly a decade now, and of course he beat Wlad 5 years ago now so it's not like he only just got his first notable win

Wouldn't be surprised if people eventually talk themselves into favouring Wilder in a 3rd fight, it's always been fashionable to seriously underestimate Fury

Seems to me that he was an underdog with Wlad and the first Wilder fight. The rematch ended up more as a pick 'em if I'm not mistaken. So perpetually? Nah.

He has had two real fights. One win and one draw. He looked like crap against an ancient Klitschko. doesn't make him a legend.

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 13:06 To use a (hopefully) better football analogy than earlier in this thread: Do you guys also think that Pele would be the worlds best footballer if he was timewarped at his best level to 2020?

Depends. How much did he weigh?

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:36

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:09 People have perpetually underrated Fury actually, he was the underdog at least 4 times in his career but never lost. It's not just some recency thing, people keep getting it wrong with him for nearly a decade now, and of course he beat Wlad 5 years ago now so it's not like he only just got his first notable win

Wouldn't be surprised if people eventually talk themselves into favouring Wilder in a 3rd fight, it's always been fashionable to seriously underestimate Fury

Seems to me that he was an underdog with Wlad and the first Wilder fight. The rematch ended up more as a pick 'em if I'm not mistaken. So perpetually? Nah.

Yep, he was underdog for the first Chisora fight, Wlad, and both Wilder fights. Wilder was defo the favourite both times---and I know we were both going Wilder ktfo, Fury didn't have any route to victory did he, even Wilder's inside game would be too much . Some good odds you coulda gotten if you were a betting man. .

Been underdog officially 4 times, never lost, people have underestimated him for years. Maybe it's the silly impression that his opponents just don't ever try when they fight him for some reason....oh, but this guy will etc

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:39

asmund wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 13:06 To use a (hopefully) better football analogy than earlier in this thread: Do you guys also think that Pele would be the worlds best footballer if he was timewarped at his best level to 2020?

Depends. How much did he weigh?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:41

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Jun 2020, 17:36

Seems to me that he was an underdog with Wlad and the first Wilder fight. The rematch ended up more as a pick 'em if I'm not mistaken. So perpetually? Nah.

Yep, he was underdog for the first Chisora fight, Wlad, and both Wilder fights. Wilder was defo the favourite both times---and I know we were both going Wilder ktfo, Fury didn't have any route to victory did he, even Wilder's inside game would be too much . Some good odds you coulda gotten if you were a betting man. .

Been underdog officially 4 times, never lost, people have underestimated him for years. Maybe it's the silly impression that his opponents just don't ever try when they fight him for some reason....oh, but this guy will etc

I know you're just trying to be obnoxious, but I never said his inside game would be too much. I merely mentioned that he did have an uppercut. My opinion didn't affect the odds. Didn't know he was the underdog for Chis.