BoxRec

Floyd belongs higher on a ATG list IMO. Leonard was the better Welterweight though. Floyd was at it best at 140 and south, once he started fighting full fledged welterweights, his power didn't carry and wasn't quite the same force.

That's not to say Floyd couldn't have beat Leonard at Welterweight either. It would have been a great fight. Wilfredo Benitez is the closest thing to Floyd that Leonard ever fought and Floyd was superior to Benitez IMO.

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 09:25 Floyd belongs higher on a ATG list IMO. Leonard was the better Welterweight though. Floyd was at it best at 140 and south, once he started fighting full fledged welterweights, his power didn't carry and wasn't quite the same force.

That's not to say Floyd couldn't have beat Leonard at Welterweight either. It would have been a great fight. Wilfredo Benitez is the closest thing to Floyd that Leonard ever fought and Floyd was superior to Benitez IMO.

So what is the closest thing to Leonard that Floyd fought? I'm pretty sure if you can find any, Leonard was much more superior than them.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 10:40

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 09:25 Floyd belongs higher on a ATG list IMO. Leonard was the better Welterweight though. Floyd was at it best at 140 and south, once he started fighting full fledged welterweights, his power didn't carry and wasn't quite the same force.

That's not to say Floyd couldn't have beat Leonard at Welterweight either. It would have been a great fight. Wilfredo Benitez is the closest thing to Floyd that Leonard ever fought and Floyd was superior to Benitez IMO.

So what is the closest thing to Leonard that Floyd fought? I'm pretty sure if you can find any, Leonard was much more superior than them.

Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 10:40

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 09:25 Floyd belongs higher on a ATG list IMO. Leonard was the better Welterweight though. Floyd was at it best at 140 and south, once he started fighting full fledged welterweights, his power didn't carry and wasn't quite the same force.

That's not to say Floyd couldn't have beat Leonard at Welterweight either. It would have been a great fight. Wilfredo Benitez is the closest thing to Floyd that Leonard ever fought and Floyd was superior to Benitez IMO.

So what is the closest thing to Leonard that Floyd fought? I'm pretty sure if you can find any, Leonard was much more superior than them.

Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35 Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

In 2010, Manny Pacquiao turned down a guaranteed opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr. for a $40m payday, with the financials of that bout having already been agreed, due to refusing to undergo PED testing performed by USADA. There's a YouTube video of him confirming this.

A year later VADA was launched and quickly became the most popular anti-doping organisation used by boxing in the US.

Manny Pacquiao then refused to undergo VADA drug testing for his two immediate bouts following Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto's failed tests in 2012 (Bradley I & Marquez III).

Alex Ariza worked with Pacquiao for the Filipino's third bout against Marquez, where VADA wasn't involved. I'm sure he worked with him for the Bradley fight also.

The Filipino then took a one-year hiatus and also stopped working with Alex Ariza.

When Pacquiao eventually made his ring return and competed in his only bout in 2013, it was against Brandon Rios, with 'Bam Bam' employing the services of Alex Ariza.

Team Pacquiao then requested that both fighters undergo VADA testing, with Rios subsequently failing their tests due to having methylhexanamine in his system.

And Alex Ariza has himself even claimed that Manny Pacquiao used PEDS:

"I can say unequivocally that I know Pacquiao was using performance-enhancing drugs. I don't know if he was taking steroids, HGH, or both, but I do know he was on PEDs.

"I stake my entire reputation on the fact, and I'm calling it a fact, that Pacquiao has used performance-enhancing drugs, before and during training camps for several fights."

And it's important to note that Pacquiao was only tested by VADA very late during his training camp for the Thurman fight. He didn't undergo proper VADA testing.

Coincidentally, Pacquiao’s performance levels appear to dip significantly from 2013 onwards.

I agree, Floyd never beat anyone as great as Leonard. Hearns is the best win Leonard had at WW and the only win Leonard had that IMO was superior than anything Floyd did at WW.

The only other fighter Leonard fought at WW that was greater than anyone Floyd fought was the Duran in their first fight and Leonard lost.

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 10:40

So what is the closest thing to Leonard that Floyd fought? I'm pretty sure if you can find any, Leonard was much more superior than them.

Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:25

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35


Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

I knew that was your angle. You my friend is a joke. Floyd wasn't in his prime and won. Him in his prime would be better too. Amazing to think that floyd wouldn't be a better version either.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:25

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35


Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

Pacquiao refused to fight Mayweather Jr. in 2010, because he was unwilling to undergo blood based drug testing.

You’ll keep ignoring my posts, because my words reflect a real-world truth you’re refusing to acknowledge, because it doesn’t adhere to your preferred narrative.

Read my previous post in this thread, since it appears to explain the reason for Pacquiao’s decline.

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:35

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 10:40

So what is the closest thing to Leonard that Floyd fought? I'm pretty sure if you can find any, Leonard was much more superior than them.

Mayweather fought no one remotely like Leonard.

Had he fought Pacquiao 5 years earlier that might have been the closest.

For a while Pacquiao looked great, but that's probably why Mayweather avoided him.

At least Leonard admitted to having avoided Hagler until he felt he could see that Marvin had slowed enough to risk the fight.

Despite the controversial result, I don't think any Hagler fan would dispute that Leonard's assessment had some truth in it.

With hindsight I'm glad that Hagler quit after that fight. He got out with his pride and self respect still intact, and will forever be regarded as an atg middleweight.

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

I don't think so, but Pacquiao had a better shot 5 years earlier and the fight would've been just a little more exciting than what we got.

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:21 I agree, Floyd never beat anyone as great as Leonard. Hearns is the best win Leonard had at WW and the only win Leonard had that IMO was superior than anything Floyd did at WW.

The only other fighter Leonard fought at WW that was greater than anyone Floyd fought was the Duran in their first fight and Leonard lost.

I think the Duran rematch is more superior than anything Floyd did at welterweight. Duran had to be P4P 1 after edging Leonard the first time and was what 72-1?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:52

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:25

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

Pacquiao refused to fight Mayweather Jr. in 2010, because he was unwilling to undergo blood based drug testing.

You’ll keep ignoring my posts, because my words reflect a real-world truth you’re refusing to acknowledge, because it doesn’t adhere to your preferred narrative.

Read my previous post in this thread, since it appears to explain the reason for Pacquiao’s decline.

That's not why he's ignoring your posts. He just doesn't find you as entertaining as I do.

Pacquiao was too scared to take the Mayweather fight in 2010, because of drug testing.

Both teams had agreed the financial terms and drug testing was the only reason why the bout didn’t take place in 2010.

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:38

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:25

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 12:47

Do you think Pacquaio would have beat Floyd 5 years earlier?

Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

I knew that was your angle. You my friend is a joke. Floyd wasn't in his prime and won. Him in his prime would be better too. Amazing to think that floyd wouldn't be a better version either.

In theory that's true, but Pacquiao's style changed in those 5 years more than Floyd's had.

It seems that people are trying to bury inconvenient facts beneath irrelevant posts, because they find them embarrassing.

Pacquiao was too scared to take the Mayweather fight in 2010, because of drug testing.

Both teams had agreed the financial terms and drug testing was the only reason why the bout didn’t take place in 2010.

Hey guys, did someone post something?

Pacquiao was too scared to take the Mayweather fight in 2010, because of drug testing.

Both teams had agreed the financial terms and drug testing was the only reason why the bout didn’t take place in 2010.

Ahh, just my internet browser.

I’ve made my point.

What I wrote is impossible to refute.

Pacquiao ducked Mayweather.

I really do hope someone is stupid enough to challenge me on this.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:56

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:21 I agree, Floyd never beat anyone as great as Leonard. Hearns is the best win Leonard had at WW and the only win Leonard had that IMO was superior than anything Floyd did at WW.

The only other fighter Leonard fought at WW that was greater than anyone Floyd fought was the Duran in their first fight and Leonard lost.

I think the Duran rematch is more superior than anything Floyd did at welterweight. Duran had to be P4P 1 after edging Leonard the first time and was what 72-1?

I don't, only based on circumstances. Duran flat out quit and tainted that entire fight and robbed Leonard of the revenge he truly deserved.

Had Duran not quit I would agree. Due to the circumstances, I can't see how him beating a quieter is greater than anything Floyd accomplished.

Although I understand it's not of any fault of Leonards.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 14:06 I’ve made my point.

What I wrote is impossible to refute.

Pacquiao ducked Mayweather.

I really do hope someone is stupid enough to challenge me on this.

He beat someone he ducked to that's impossible to refute as well. What actually happened in the ring is even more impossible to refute.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:57

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:38

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:25


Yes I do, and I think Mayweather knew it too.

Floyd wanted nothing to do with Pacquiao - not until at least the Marquez debacle.

For whatever reason, Manny never regained that startling speed he had shown against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, Clottey and Margarito and Mosley.

Timing is everything and Mayweather was a master of calling the shots.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot else going on behind the scenes too, but that's all now disappearing fast into the mists of time.

In any case I believe that Pacquiao probably still remains the fighter Mayweather most respected.

I knew that was your angle. You my friend is a joke. Floyd wasn't in his prime and won. Him in his prime would be better too. Amazing to think that floyd wouldn't be a better version either.

In theory that's true, but Pacquiao's style changed in those 5 years more than Floyd's had.

Now Pacquiao style is the reason he lost come on stop.

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 14:12

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:56

NateJR wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:21 I agree, Floyd never beat anyone as great as Leonard. Hearns is the best win Leonard had at WW and the only win Leonard had that IMO was superior than anything Floyd did at WW.

The only other fighter Leonard fought at WW that was greater than anyone Floyd fought was the Duran in their first fight and Leonard lost.

I think the Duran rematch is more superior than anything Floyd did at welterweight. Duran had to be P4P 1 after edging Leonard the first time and was what 72-1?

I don't, only based on circumstances. Duran flat out quit and tainted that entire fight and robbed Leonard of the revenge he truly deserved.

Had Duran not quit I would agree. Due to the circumstances, I can't see how him beating a quieter is greater than anything Floyd accomplished.

Although I understand it's not of any fault of Leonards.

Leonard made him quit, a 72-1 fighter. Whether he did or not, the win was still a great win. I bet if Floyd made Pacquiao quit, no one would be saying that the win didn't matter.

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 14:17

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:57

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:38

I knew that was your angle. You my friend is a joke. Floyd wasn't in his prime and won. Him in his prime would be better too. Amazing to think that floyd wouldn't be a better version either.

In theory that's true, but Pacquiao's style changed in those 5 years more than Floyd's had.

Now Pacquiao style is the reason he lost come on stop.

The Floyd that toyed with Marquez was a far cry from the version of Floyd that fought Pacquaio.

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 14:17

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:57

world ranked wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 13:38

I knew that was your angle. You my friend is a joke. Floyd wasn't in his prime and won. Him in his prime would be better too. Amazing to think that floyd wouldn't be a better version either.

In theory that's true, but Pacquiao's style changed in those 5 years more than Floyd's had.

Now Pacquiao style is the reason he lost come on stop.

Pacquiao over the years transformed into more a boxer. He needed to be reckless against Floyd like Maidana was.