BoxRec

Benn was being held up by the ropes in the 1st round against McClellan, his arms were by his side and McClellan was teeing off on him, the ref jumped in just as Benn fell through the ropes to give him a count.

Controversial wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 11:44

IRONFIST wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 11:00

Controversial wrote: ↑19 May 2024, 05:57 I think a lot of refs would've stopped it had it been someone else or not such a big fight. You can argue a lot was at stake and Fury deserved the benefit of the doubt, he ended up going the distance so he did recover. What do you think?

Of course not, especially as Fury has great recuperative powers like Holmes.

The thing with all these type of debates is we have hindsight and can see how it panned out so it's easy to say afterwards it was the right call. But imagine if there were a just a few more seconds after the ref counted Fury, the fight resumed and Usyk hit him with one huge punch and Fury collapsed and ended up seriously hurt or worse. Everyone would be slating the ref then. You can even argue is Fury's punch resistance going, he's been dropped a few times in the last few years and his big comeback from being dropped by Wilder was 6 years ago.

Conversely, if the ref had stopped/waved off the fight instantly, in the first Wilder fight, where Fury was dropped heavily and looked gone, we would probably have never seen a trilogy etc. Who was it who said this is boxing, not a tickling contest, my take, Fury would've been dropped if not for the ropes, beat the count, maybe dropped a second time but beat the count like in the Wilder third fight.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 05:01

Controversial wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 11:44

IRONFIST wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 11:00

Of course not, especially as Fury has great recuperative powers like Holmes.

The thing with all these type of debates is we have hindsight and can see how it panned out so it's easy to say afterwards it was the right call. But imagine if there were a just a few more seconds after the ref counted Fury, the fight resumed and Usyk hit him with one huge punch and Fury collapsed and ended up seriously hurt or worse. Everyone would be slating the ref then. You can even argue is Fury's punch resistance going, he's been dropped a few times in the last few years and his big comeback from being dropped by Wilder was 6 years ago.

Conversely, if the ref had stopped/waved off the fight instantly, in the first Wilder fight, where Fury was dropped heavily and looked gone, we would probably have never seen a trilogy etc. Who was it who said this is boxing, not a tickling contest, my take, Fury would've been dropped if not for the ropes, beat the count, maybe dropped a second time but beat the count like in the Wilder third fight.

I agree, I was just making the point that there is a very fine line between a good and bad decision. Lots of refs would’ve likely waved the fight off when Fury was dropped by Wilder. Similarly some refs wouldn’t have stopped Groves against Froch. Then both courses of history would’ve changed.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 22:21 Yeah, Paret and Norton were the first examples I thought of. Don't think I've seen any worse.

Johansson vs Machen was pretty bad

I think the fact that all three uk based commentary teams were saying “this could be stopped” when fury was tottering around says a lot. No one was really thinking Groves was in desperate trouble.

It would have been fine to stop it, but glad they didn’t as it would have made the fight possibly controversial… now the only controversy was how did anyone score that fight for Fury. 114-113 usyk is the kindest I can go.

stujones wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 06:44 I think the fact that all three uk based commentary teams were saying “this could be stopped” when fury was tottering around says a lot. No one was really thinking Groves was in desperate trouble.

It would have been fine to stop it, but glad they didn’t as it would have made the fight possibly controversial… now the only controversy was how did anyone score that fight for Fury. 114-113 usyk is the kindest I can go.

All close rounds in favour of Fury and yes, the best scorecard for Fury is a 114-113 loss.

Controversial wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 05:31

IRONFIST wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 05:01

Controversial wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 11:44

The thing with all these type of debates is we have hindsight and can see how it panned out so it's easy to say afterwards it was the right call. But imagine if there were a just a few more seconds after the ref counted Fury, the fight resumed and Usyk hit him with one huge punch and Fury collapsed and ended up seriously hurt or worse. Everyone would be slating the ref then. You can even argue is Fury's punch resistance going, he's been dropped a few times in the last few years and his big comeback from being dropped by Wilder was 6 years ago.

Conversely, if the ref had stopped/waved off the fight instantly, in the first Wilder fight, where Fury was dropped heavily and looked gone, we would probably have never seen a trilogy etc. Who was it who said this is boxing, not a tickling contest, my take, Fury would've been dropped if not for the ropes, beat the count, maybe dropped a second time but beat the count like in the Wilder third fight.

I agree, I was just making the point that there is a very fine line between a good and bad decision. Lots of refs would’ve likely waved the fight off when Fury was dropped by Wilder. Similarly some refs wouldn’t have stopped Groves against Froch. Then both courses of history would’ve changed.

You could argue Fury should have been waved off against Wilder. Despite what happened after. The referee also wouldn't have been aware then that Fury had remarkable powers of recovery.

As I said higher up, you have to think if scenarios were played out a 100, 1000 or 10,000 times what are the odds of a serious injury/fatality. Every decision process should stem from that.

The Wilder 1 fight wasnt stopped because it was in America, it would have been in the UK

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 06:56

stujones wrote: ↑23 May 2024, 06:44 I think the fact that all three uk based commentary teams were saying “this could be stopped” when fury was tottering around says a lot. No one was really thinking Groves was in desperate trouble.

It would have been fine to stop it, but glad they didn’t as it would have made the fight possibly controversial… now the only controversy was how did anyone score that fight for Fury. 114-113 usyk is the kindest I can go.

All close rounds in favour of Fury and yes, the best scorecard for Fury is a 114-113 loss.

Another point - when Wilder floored Fury - whilst it wouldn't have been a bad call to wave it off as he lay on the floor unconscious - when he got up seemingly seemed to be okay (but not perfect) legs - then I think it would have been a bad call to wave it off then. Similar to Carl Williams vs Mike Tyson. There wasn't much in terms of commentators who were saying "oh not sure the ref should have allowed it to continue" when the fight was live.

I think in hindsight we could question if Fury was in a position to defend himself at 10 - as we have had many a stoppage on "in the act of rising" at 10 - which Fury really was - but the minute the ref looked at Fury to see if he was okay, then it would have been a bad call to stop it (as it was Carl Williams vs Mike Tyson).

I think in the UK that Wilder vs Fury fight would have been stopped ala Malik Scott vs Derek Chisora.

115-112 is the best Fury did, anything else is burglary. And yeah, the ref could have stopped it but also could not have. I think it's pretty much 50-50. Especially in Brit boxing we see a lot of premature stoppages.

I was just watching some of Holyfields fights, and boy it reminds me that he was some fighter. How he strung combinations together. We just don't see it these days.

Anyway, got to watching Smoking Bert Cooper against Moorer. If people thought Fury should have been stoped then take a look at that fight and see the state Moorer was in when Cooper had him against the ropes.

I think we forget that this has gone on countless of times before.