I think that what is going on in Saudi Arabia is a throwback to the pre-Hajj days. Jahiliyyah, when Mecca was party/entertainment central. Conservative Islamic scholars refer to the effect of modernization on Islam as the new jahiliyyah.
The tribes of the Arabian Peninsula have managed to attract significant numbers of people to Mecca from distances for thousands of years; for thousands of years prior to Islam. The Hajj was the result of a negotiation between Muhammed and the previously pagan tribes that had operated and profited from the pre-Islam pilgrimage.
What the Saudi Absolute Monarchy is doing is what they have always done, in one form or another. It is literally a genetic trait.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
I think that what is going on in Saudi Arabia is a throwback to the pre-Hajj days. Jahiliyyah, when Mecca was party/entertainment central. Conservative Islamic scholars refer to the effect of modernization on Islam as the new jahiliyyah.
The tribes of the Arabian Peninsula have managed to attract significant numbers of people to Mecca from distances for thousands of years; for thousands of years prior to Islam. The Hajj was the result of a negotiation between Muhammed and the previously pagan tribes that had operated and profited from the pre-Islam pilgrimage.
What the Saudi Absolute Monarchy is doing is what they have always done, in one form or another. It is literally a genetic trait.
The house of Saud, created a pact with the hardline ultra conservative wahabi/salafi muslim sects in the region , in order to control the population, so they could continue to control and plunder the local resources and maintain their iron grip on power. They are probably seeing now they are at in inflection point, and want to gradually pivot away, albeit very slowly, toward becoming at least a partially secular society, normalising their relationship with Israel, and opening their doors to the west, as a new cultural centre.
I don't know much about pre islamic Mecca, but I would imagine it was likely an important trade route between east and west.
Just looked, it was further away from the tradfe routes and a site of several important pagan shrines. It alwayus interests me how each religion keeps the sites of pilgramage from older ones to build it';s new temples.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
I think that what is going on in Saudi Arabia is a throwback to the pre-Hajj days. Jahiliyyah, when Mecca was party/entertainment central. Conservative Islamic scholars refer to the effect of modernization on Islam as the new jahiliyyah.
The tribes of the Arabian Peninsula have managed to attract significant numbers of people to Mecca from distances for thousands of years; for thousands of years prior to Islam. The Hajj was the result of a negotiation between Muhammed and the previously pagan tribes that had operated and profited from the pre-Islam pilgrimage.
What the Saudi Absolute Monarchy is doing is what they have always done, in one form or another. It is literally a genetic trait.
The house of Saud, created a pact with the hardline ultra conservative wahabi/salafi muslim sects in the region , in order to control the population, so they could continue to control and plunder the local resources and maintain their iron grip on power. They are probably seeing now they are at in inflection point, and want to gradually pivot away, albeit very slowly, toward becoming at least a partially secular society, normalising their relationship with Israel, and opening their doors to the west, as a new cultural centre.
I don't know much about pre islamic Mecca, but I would imagine it was likely an important trade route between east and west.
Just looked, it was further away from the tradfe routes and a site of several important pagan shrines. It alwayus interests me how each religion keeps the sites of pilgramage from older ones to build it';s new temples.
What is the Hajj of Islam is the reclaiming of the pilgrimage that began around the time of Abraham, according to Islamic histories. That pilgrimage evolved into a cease fire meeting of the tribes for an extended period of time once every lunar year. The idols that tribes worshipped and the decadence of the event was certainly one of the catalysts of Islam. But Muhammed was brilliant enough to negotiate the continuance of the pilgrimage as a pilar of the faith.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
ironbeard wrote: ↑02 Jun 2024, 06:11
I think that what is going on in Saudi Arabia is a throwback to the pre-Hajj days. Jahiliyyah, when Mecca was party/entertainment central. Conservative Islamic scholars refer to the effect of modernization on Islam as the new jahiliyyah.
The tribes of the Arabian Peninsula have managed to attract significant numbers of people to Mecca from distances for thousands of years; for thousands of years prior to Islam. The Hajj was the result of a negotiation between Muhammed and the previously pagan tribes that had operated and profited from the pre-Islam pilgrimage.
What the Saudi Absolute Monarchy is doing is what they have always done, in one form or another. It is literally a genetic trait.
The house of Saud, created a pact with the hardline ultra conservative wahabi/salafi muslim sects in the region , in order to control the population, so they could continue to control and plunder the local resources and maintain their iron grip on power. They are probably seeing now they are at in inflection point, and want to gradually pivot away, albeit very slowly, toward becoming at least a partially secular society, normalising their relationship with Israel, and opening their doors to the west, as a new cultural centre.
I don't know much about pre islamic Mecca, but I would imagine it was likely an important trade route between east and west.
Just looked, it was further away from the tradfe routes and a site of several important pagan shrines. It alwayus interests me how each religion keeps the sites of pilgramage from older ones to build it';s new temples.
What is the Hajj of Islam is the reclaiming of the pilgrimage that began around the time of Abraham, according to Islamic histories. That pilgrimage evolved into a cease fire meeting of the tribes for an extended period of time once every lunar year. The idols that tribes worshipped and the decadence of the event was certainly one of the catalysts of Islam. But Muhammed was brilliant enough to negotiate the continuance of the pilgrimage as a pilar of the faith.
Similar to how Romans coopted ancient greek/pagan dates in the calendar, first for their own gods festivals (who let's face it were just simulacrums of Greek mythology), then roman Catholic ones.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
The house of Saud, created a pact with the hardline ultra conservative wahabi/salafi muslim sects in the region , in order to control the population, so they could continue to control and plunder the local resources and maintain their iron grip on power. They are probably seeing now they are at in inflection point, and want to gradually pivot away, albeit very slowly, toward becoming at least a partially secular society, normalising their relationship with Israel, and opening their doors to the west, as a new cultural centre.
I don't know much about pre islamic Mecca, but I would imagine it was likely an important trade route between east and west.
Just looked, it was further away from the tradfe routes and a site of several important pagan shrines. It alwayus interests me how each religion keeps the sites of pilgramage from older ones to build it';s new temples.
What is the Hajj of Islam is the reclaiming of the pilgrimage that began around the time of Abraham, according to Islamic histories. That pilgrimage evolved into a cease fire meeting of the tribes for an extended period of time once every lunar year. The idols that tribes worshipped and the decadence of the event was certainly one of the catalysts of Islam. But Muhammed was brilliant enough to negotiate the continuance of the pilgrimage as a pilar of the faith.
Similar to how Romans coopted ancient greek/pagan dates in the calendar, first for their own gods festivals (who let's face it were just simulacrums of Greek mythology), then roman Catholic ones.
Excellent point.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 02 Jun 2024, 12:13
by SeanBrennan
Really interesting reading this historical context.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 06 Jun 2024, 08:59
by Ruthless-RKO
Anyone else heard bout Usyk wanting to go down to CW again after the rematch.
“After the rematch, I want to go down in my weight [and fight at] cruiserweight.
“It is my plan because when I start my preparation and my training camp, listen I will shop and say ‘yeah!’ because I am eating everything. For me it is hard, I don’t like three times [a day, having to have a] cocktail [of] water, protein, banana – banana is good, I like [them].”
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 08 Jun 2024, 10:21
by Controversial
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 Jun 2024, 08:59
Anyone else heard bout Usyk wanting to go down to CW again after the rematch.
“After the rematch, I want to go down in my weight [and fight at] cruiserweight.
“It is my plan because when I start my preparation and my training camp, listen I will shop and say ‘yeah!’ because I am eating everything. For me it is hard, I don’t like three times [a day, having to have a] cocktail [of] water, protein, banana – banana is good, I like [them].”
If Wilder doesn't retire maybe he should look at the CW division too
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 21 Jun 2024, 03:49
by big lennox
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 Jun 2024, 08:59
Anyone else heard bout Usyk wanting to go down to CW again after the rematch.
“After the rematch, I want to go down in my weight [and fight at] cruiserweight.
“It is my plan because when I start my preparation and my training camp, listen I will shop and say ‘yeah!’ because I am eating everything. For me it is hard, I don’t like three times [a day, having to have a] cocktail [of] water, protein, banana – banana is good, I like [them].”
If Wilder doesn't retire maybe he should look at the CW division too
Wilder vs Opetaia is actually a big fight at cruiserweight. Opetaia has CBS/Winner, Usyk or Mikaeljan (less-so) as his only legitimate big name options in what is quite an aging division. Wilder would be a big name and would be intriguing to most. I think Opetaia wins comfortably but I'd watch.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
He simply cannot accept he lost to a better man "He had a 10-8 round" doesn't even acknowledge that he was absolutely battered in that round, Usyk landed more flush power shots in that round, than Fury did in the rest of the fight.
He's not going to win a rematch, not if he cannot get his head around the defeat.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 Jun 2024, 08:59
Anyone else heard bout Usyk wanting to go down to CW again after the rematch.
“After the rematch, I want to go down in my weight [and fight at] cruiserweight.
“It is my plan because when I start my preparation and my training camp, listen I will shop and say ‘yeah!’ because I am eating everything. For me it is hard, I don’t like three times [a day, having to have a] cocktail [of] water, protein, banana – banana is good, I like [them].”
If Wilder doesn't retire maybe he should look at the CW division too
Wilder vs Opetaia is actually a big fight at cruiserweight. Opetaia has CBS/Winner, Usyk or Mikaeljan (less-so) as his only legitimate big name options in what is quite an aging division. Wilder would be a big name and would be intriguing to most. I think Opetaia wins comfortably but I'd watch.
Wilder's done, gunshy, can't pull thd trigger, he needs to quit.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
He simply cannot accept he lost to a better man "He had a 10-8 round" doesn't even acknowledge that he was absolutely battered in that round, Usyk landed more flush power shots in that round, than Fury did in the rest of the fight.
He's not going to win a rematch, not if he cannot get his head around the defeat.
We can all guess the response if this stuff was on the other foot. Proper sore loser isn't he.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 21 Jun 2024, 19:30
by KiwiRider
coneye wrote: ↑21 Jun 2024, 14:56
If he refuses to admit he was beat , i doubt he'll change anything , so its gonna be a proper ko next time
I think Uysk will have his measure from the opening round if Tyson doesn't bring anything new.
Thing is, Fury could turn it around but I don't think he has the sustained focus that should have put him back in the gym with a new trainer by now.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 21 Jun 2024, 20:29
by Coco
The fight is in December, he should be back in the gym after the summer
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Posted: 21 Jun 2024, 23:46
by Cas
It seems Fury will not change a whole lot if he believes he won the fight which favours Usyk. Fury will probably fight the same and be less fit than the first one. I think with some adjustments by Usyk this time he might be able to force the stoppage and put on a clinic.
Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Tyson Fury II | PPV - 21 December 2024
Very good.